So Russian forces have taken Slavynsk and Doneskt... anyone who said not past Crimea?

[Genx87]

One of these Crimean pictures is not like the others:

We can find pictures of every agressor posing with the people from every war. What does that prove?

 

[fskimospy]

We can find pictures of every agressor posing with the people from every war. What does that prove?

You didn't hear? Iraqis loved the US occupation:

I feel like there's no way he believes this bullshit anymore.

 

[theeedude]

You didn't hear? Iraqis loved the US occupation:

I feel like there's no way he believes this bullshit anymore.

How many US troops killed in Iraq?
How many Russian troops killed in Crimea?
The one believing BS is you.

 

[theeedude]

This just a hobby or are you getting paid?

Really? I think you watch too many movies.

Ad hominems. Not biting.

 

[fskimospy]

How many US troops killed in Iraq?
How many Russian troops killed in Crimea?
The one believing BS is you.

Why don't you go check the number of US troops killed in the Iraq War by province. Then come back and try to tell me that those people in the low to zero casualty provinces were happy about the US occupation.

Seriously, how many more times does Putin need to dupe you before you wake up?

 

[theeedude]

Why don't you go check the number of US troops killed in the Iraq War by province. Then come back and try to tell me that those people in the low to zero casualty provinces were happy about the US occupation.

Seriously, how many more times does Putin need to dupe you before you wake up?

It's all fun and games until we decide to "liberate" and "bring democracy" to Crimea on the assumption that 85% of the population supports us. Then we may be in for a very rude awakening. But I don't even think the US State Department believes what you believe.

 

[fskimospy]

It's all fun and games until we decide to "liberate" and "bring democracy" to Crimea on the assumption that 85% of the population supports us. Then we may be in for a very rude awakening. But I don't even think the US State Department believes what you believe.

So now you're dodging the issue. You stated that the lack of violence against Russian troops in Crimea was evidence for Crimeans supporting the occupation. By that logic, Iraqi provinces with low US casualties supported the US occupation. Do you believe this to be true?

 

[theeedude]

So now you're dodging the issue. You stated that the lack of violence against Russian troops in Crimea was evidence for Crimeans supporting the occupation. By that logic, Iraqi provinces with low US casualties supported the US occupation. Do you believe this to be true?

Crimea casualties: 1 (Against Ukrainian military, not local population, but anyways)

Iraq casualties by province:
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/ByProvince.aspx

Anbar 1335
Basra 156
Muthanna 8
Qadisiyah 43
Babil 217
Baghdad 1422
Dhi Qar 99
Diyala 266
Arbil 2
Karbala 38
At-Ta'mim 106
Maysan 29
Wasit 52
Najaf 33
Salah ad Din 437

The one even remotely close is Arbil province, which is Kurdish area of Iraq, which supported the occupation and overthrow of Saddam.

 

[fskimospy]

Crimea casualties: 1 (Against Ukrainian military, not local population, but anyways)

Iraq casualties by province:
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/ByProvince.aspx

The one even remotely close is Arbil province, which is Kurdish area of Iraq, which supported the occupation and overthrow of Saddam.

Absolutely ridiculous. How far are you going to try and bend the truth? You must be learning from Putin well.

First, the US occupation of Iraq lasted EIGHT YEARS, not a month. Trying to directly compare numbers is obviously stupid. There are quite a few provinces with less than 50 US casualties for the total occupation, which would, by the way, mean casualties at a slower rate than Russian occupied Crimea.

I feel like it's just pride at this point.

 

[theeedude]

Absolutely ridiculous. How far are you going to try and bend the truth? You must be learning from Putin well.

First, the US occupation of Iraq lasted EIGHT YEARS, not a month. Trying to directly compare numbers is obviously stupid. There are quite a few provinces with less than 50 US casualties for the total occupation, which would, by the way, mean casualties at a slower rate than Russian occupied Crimea.

I feel like it's just pride at this point.

When facts fail you, revert to ad hominems. As expected.
You brought up Iraq casualties, the Iraq data contradicts your thesis. Move on to something else.

 

[fskimospy]

When facts fail you, revert to ad hominems. As expected.
You brought up Iraq casualties, the Iraq data contradicts your thesis. Move on to something else.

I brought up Iraq casualties, and the Iraq data directly supports my thesis. You attempted to compare eight years of casualties to one month of casualties. That is either extremely poor thinking on your part, or deliberate dishonesty.

Doubling down by then attempting to declare that the facts support this interpretation is just embarrassing. You should know better.

 

[theeedude]

I brought up Iraq casualties, and the Iraq data directly supports my thesis. You attempted to compare eight years of casualties to one month of casualties. That is either extremely poor thinking on your part, or deliberate dishonesty.

Doubling down by then attempting to declare that the facts support this interpretation is just embarrassing. You should know better.

Here is your thesis, hidden in between the usual lame personal attacks:

Why don't you go check the number of US troops killed in the Iraq War by province. Then come back and try to tell me that those people in the low to zero casualty provinces were happy about the US occupation.

I went and checked the numbers by province, as you recommended. And I came back, as you asked.
And, as you requested, I am trying to tell you that low to zero casualty Kurdish provinces were in fact happy with the US occupation and removal of Saddam Hussein.

 

[fskimospy]

Here is your thesis, hidden in between the usual lame personal attacks:


I went and checked the numbers by province, as you recommended. And I came back, as you asked.
And, as you requested, I am trying to tell you that low to zero casualty Kurdish provinces were in fact happy with the US occupation and removal of Saddam Hussein.

No you didn't. You took only provinces with low single digit casualty counts instead of provinces with casualty rates similar to Russian troops in Crimea. If you did that, you would notice that your supposition that they were only in supportive areas is false.

Everyone makes mistakes, but doubling down on them like this is embarrassing. Considering how freely you have dispensed Russian propaganda in this thread, questioning your intent is entirely appropriate.

 

[theeedude]

No you didn't. You took only provinces with low single digit casualty counts instead of provinces with casualty rates similar to Russian troops in Crimea. If you did that, you would notice that your supposition that they were only in supportive areas is false.

Everyone makes mistakes, but doubling down on them like this is embarrassing. Considering how freely you have dispensed Russian propaganda in this thread, questioning your intent is entirely appropriate.

1 is not low single digit? OK, buddy.
Even if you look at double digit provinces, they are either in desert areas in the south, or Shia dominated areas, which supported the overthrow of Saddam.
Populated Sunni areas have triple and quadruple digit casualties, and they were the ones against the occupation and removal of Saddam. In any case, you have no case.

 

[hal2kilo]

Absolutely ridiculous. How far are you going to try and bend the truth? You must be learning from Putin well.

First, the US occupation of Iraq lasted EIGHT YEARS, not a month. Trying to directly compare numbers is obviously stupid. There are quite a few provinces with less than 50 US casualties for the total occupation, which would, by the way, mean casualties at a slower rate than Russian occupied Crimea.

I feel like it's just pride at this point.

I stopped paying attention after the cheap vegetables argument.

 

[theeedude]

I stopped paying attention after the cheap vegetables argument.

Clearly I was paid by Putin to insist on affordable vegetables for Americans

 

[fskimospy]

1 is not low single digit? OK, buddy.
Even if you look at double digit provinces, they are either in desert areas in the south, or Shia dominated areas, which supported the overthrow of Saddam.
Populated Sunni areas have triple and quadruple digit casualties, and they were the ones against the occupation and removal of Saddam. In any case, you have no case.

Guess what, supporting the overthrow of Saddam and supporting the US occupation are two entirely different things, and polling indicates that even the Shia thought overthrowing Saddam was wrong.

Public opposition to the US occupation frequently topped 75-80%, and topped 80% even among Shia Iraqis.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/09bbciraqipoll.pdf

Go back and look at earlier polling as well. The US was not viewed as a liberator, but as an occupier.

So seriously, just stop. When the facts don't support you, admit it.

 

[Genx87]

It's all fun and games until we decide to "liberate" and "bring democracy" to Crimea on the assumption that 85% of the population supports us. Then we may be in for a very rude awakening. But I don't even think the US State Department believes what you believe.

And who is talking about this option? Sounds like we will simply decimate the Russian economy and ability to wage future war instead.

 

[fskimospy]

In other fun news, Russia has just passed a new law requiring bloggers to register with the government so that what they write can be better policed. How fun!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/w...reins-on-web-with-bloggers-law.html?ref=world

 

[fskimospy]

In other news, despite the fact that senseamp has repeatedly told us that Russia is willing to undertake a war, possibly a nuclear war over Ukraine, Putin has just announced his troops are drawing back from the Ukranian border and asking separatists to cancel their referendums.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/world/europe/Putin-Russia-Ukraine.html?hp

 

[theeedude]

Guess what, supporting the overthrow of Saddam and supporting the US occupation are two entirely different things, and polling indicates that even the Shia thought overthrowing Saddam was wrong.

Public opposition to the US occupation frequently topped 75-80%, and topped 80% even among Shia Iraqis.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/pdfs/09bbciraqipoll.pdf

Go back and look at earlier polling as well. The US was not viewed as a liberator, but as an occupier.

So seriously, just stop. When the facts don't support you, admit it.

For some reason, you keep referring to numbers that contradict the argument you are trying to make.
Did you even read that poll?

Q8. From today’s perspective and all things considered, was it absolutely right, somewhat
right, somewhat wrong, or absolutely wrong that US-led coalition forces invaded Iraq in
spring 2003?
All Sunni arab Shia arab
% % %
Absolutely Right 12 2 14
Somewhat Right 25 2 34
Somewhat Wrong 28 27 31
Absolutely Wrong 35 70 21
Refused/don’t know - - -

Whole 70% of Sunnis thought invasion was absolutely wrong, and only 21% of Shia.
I guess in your mind, those levels of absolute opposition are completely unrelated to the much higher levels of casualties in Sunni areas.

 

[Genx87]

In other fun news, Russia has just passed a new law requiring bloggers to register with the government so that what they write can be better policed. How fun!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/w...reins-on-web-with-bloggers-law.html?ref=world

So much democracy, so much freedom!

 

[Genx87]

In other news, despite the fact that senseamp has repeatedly told us that Russia is willing to undertake a war, possibly a nuclear war over Ukraine, Putin has just announced his troops are drawing back from the Ukranian border and asking separatists to cancel their referendums.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/08/world/europe/Putin-Russia-Ukraine.html?hp

Ill be surprised if he really pulls back. And I suspect the reason why they are asking the separatists to postpone is because they cant control the vote results like they did in Crimea.

 

[fskimospy]

Ill be surprised if he really pulls back. And I suspect the reason why they are asking the separatists to postpone is because they cant control the vote like they did in Crimea.

My guess is that he is moving off from the border but keeping things close enough that he can move back if he really wants to. Additionally, he has now put forth some tentative support for the elections in late May that he previously wasn't interested in.

 

[fskimospy]

For some reason, you keep referring to numbers that contradict the argument you are trying to make.
Did you even read that poll?

Whole 70% of Sunnis thought invasion was absolutely wrong, and only 21% of Shia.
I guess in your mind, those levels of absolute opposition are completely unrelated to the much higher levels of casualties in Sunni areas.

Uhmm, did YOU even read that poll? 51% of Shia thought the invasion was either somewhat wrong or absolutely wrong.

You claimed that Shia supported the overthrow of Saddam. When I provide you with polling numbers that show this is not so, you decide that opposition only counts among those who said it was 'absolutely' wrong instead of 'somewhat' wrong.

Remember a few posts back when you got all mad when I questioned your honesty? It's for things like that.