So Russian forces have taken Slavynsk and Doneskt... anyone who said not past Crimea?

[Genx87]

Remember how all the dupes said we hated democracy for calling it a sham?

Yup. And this turned out to be another example of Putin crapping all over them.

 

[moonbogg]

Welcome home Russians!

 

[Jhhnn]

If true that would definitely put a whole new light on the Crimean annexation.

However, I would wait until we have more confirmations. I've googled to see if any other news sites reported the same story, but so far Forbes OP-ED piece is the only source, and everything else on the web references that piece. So far I'm a little skeptical that this is true, otherwise we'd be seeing every news agency talking about it.

A Forbes op-ed that plays to motivated reasoning? And the rest of the internet plays off it as if it were established fact? Couldn't Be!

Where's the screenshot of the supposed Russian article, anyway?

A great deal of the information available reminds me of the past, like the time that the US negotiator, Kelley, emerged from a private lunch with the N Korean negotiator & announced to the world that the N Korean negotiator had admitted to N Korea having the Bomb. Presto! That flew around the World faster than lightning, becoming "the Truth!" through repetition & a willingness to believe.

As it turns out, that obviously wasn't true because N Korea's only known nuclear test a few years later turned out to be a fizzle...

 

[theeedude]

If only 15% of Crimeans support joining Russia, where is the resistance from the other 85%?

 

[K1052]

If true that would definitely put a whole new light on the Crimean annexation.

However, I would wait until we have more confirmations. I've googled to see if any other news sites reported the same story, but so far Forbes OP-ED piece is the only source, and everything else on the web references that piece. So far I'm a little skeptical that this is true, otherwise we'd be seeing every news agency talking about it.

I find this more plausible than a 97% for vote on annexation without either enormous voter suppression or gross electoral fraud considering the area's ethnic mix.

 

[Olikan]

So, there were Western troops disguised as Ukrainian protestors seizing buildings and territory? Interesting.

nothing new...

The origins of al-Qaeda as a network inspiring terrorism around the world and training operatives can be traced to the Soviet War in Afghanistan (December 1979 – February 1989).[27] The U.S. viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahideen, some of whom were radical Islamic militants, on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. A CIA program called Operation Cyclone channeled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Afghan Mujahideen who were fighting the Soviet occupation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

 

[Victorian Gray]

nothing new...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

It was not a serious question.

 

[fskimospy]

A Forbes op-ed that plays to motivated reasoning? And the rest of the internet plays off it as if it were established fact? Couldn't Be!

Where's the screenshot of the supposed Russian article, anyway?

A great deal of the information available reminds me of the past, like the time that the US negotiator, Kelley, emerged from a private lunch with the N Korean negotiator & announced to the world that the N Korean negotiator had admitted to N Korea having the Bomb. Presto! That flew around the World faster than lightning, becoming "the Truth!" through repetition & a willingness to believe.

As it turns out, that obviously wasn't true because N Korea's only known nuclear test a few years later turned out to be a fizzle...

The screenshot of the supposed Russian article is in the Forbes piece.

Supporting Russia's aggression is getting harder and harder, isn't it?

 

[cubby1223]

There is no way to know who posted the info, to verify it's integrity.

Websites can be hacked, stories can be inserted.

The numbers posted make far more logical sense than what Russia claimed, but it still doesn't prove it true.

 

[cubby1223]

But also to be clear, those who opt more towards believing 15% voter support, are no less justified than those who opt to believe Russia's official reported results.

 

[Fern]

The U.S. started things by engineering the coup that overthrew Viktor Yanukovich. The Russians followed it up by leaking the Fuck the EU phone call and beginning the operations we're talking about now. This is classic "blowback" in action.

Where did you get this info?

I've only heard it from RT and it's supporters.

Fern

 

[Fern]

^ This post is still important. Thus far no one has brought us evidence, or even claims, that "Russian forces" have advanced forward past Crimea. Still waiting for the OP to back up the topic title.

Here's a link: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-men-in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html

Fern

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I havent had time to read this article. But what response should we have made? Economic sanctions shed the least amount of blood and put pressure on Russia. And how have we picked any side in the internal conflict? Our goal is to keep an external participant(Russia) from invading Ukraine.

The TLDR; explained his response to what should of been done. Which was to force both the prevailing revolters and the deposed government to come to the negotiation table.

However the moment we decided to side with one group we allowed Russia an ability to enter this situation with justifications over their own border concerns and their concerns on maintaining a Black Sea port.

 

[cubby1223]

The U.S. started things by engineering the coup that overthrew Viktor Yanukovich. The Russians followed it up by leaking the Fuck the EU phone call and beginning the operations we're talking about now. This is classic "blowback" in action.

I don't believe the U.S. engineered the coup. But I did find interesting info regarding the terms of the IMF loans Yanukovich was trying to obtain, and the acceptance agreement with the EU was in part tied to the IMF loans and the terms for it (like ramping up energy prices on citizens up to 40% higher to repay the loan), which in part led Yanukovich to taking Russia's cash offer, sparking the coup.


There is so much to be learned in this situation that just gets thrown to the wayside in the U.S./Russia cheerleading. Ukraine's per capita GDP is not even $4k! Russia's is ~$14k, and the baltic countries bordering Russia are between $14 & $16k (explains why they are not so easy for Russia to manipulate uprisings). Ukraine is rich in natural resources and vast high quality farmlands. I would think it should be a more prosperous nation. But I think it's all commodities, not refined goods. Being commodities the mineral ore mined is competing against China's mining operations, for example, there's nothing that makes Ukraine ore more valuable than China ore. They also produce a lot of military equipment for export.

I don't know what makes Ukraine's economy so weak, but there seems to be a lot of goods and value to controlling the lands. I don't know, there's got to be much much more to the story of why this is all happening.

 

[cirrrocco]

Where did you get this info?

I've only heard it from RT and it's supporters.

Fern

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957

here you go, please read the complete transcript. The yats they are referring to is the current prime minister of Ukraine. This conv happened a couple of months before 'yats' was made prime minister but as you can see even after the tape he was leaked, he was still made PM. Shows how shameless the US State dept is interfering and protecting the investments it made in Ukraine.

 

[shady28]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26079957

here you go, please read the complete transcript. The yats they are referring to is the current prime minister of Ukraine. This conv happened a couple of months before 'yats' was made prime minister but as you can see even after the tape he was leaked, he was still made PM. Shows how shameless the US State dept is interfering and protecting the investments it made in Ukraine.

Figured something would come out at some point.

Smoking gun.

This part is fascinating.

This appears to be the US Ambassador to Ukraine, and Asst Sec of State Nuland, determining who is going to be what in Ukraine.

" I think we're in play. The Klitschko [Vitaly Klitschko, one of three main opposition leaders] piece is obviously the complicated electron here. Especially the announcement of him as deputy prime minister and you've seen some of my notes on the troubles in the marriage right now so we're trying to get a read really fast on where he is on this stuff. But I think your argument to him, which you'll need to make, I think that's the next phone call you want to set up, is exactly the one you made to Yats [Arseniy Yatseniuk, another opposition leader]. And I'm glad you sort of put him on the spot on where he fits in this scenario. And I'm very glad that he said what he said in response."

"I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea."

Yeah, put one of the pro-west leaders on the spot as to where they fit in Ukraine...

And yeah, he this guy shouldn't go into Gov't, Vitaly Klitschko..

And it looks like whatever they said, got heeded :


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitali_Klitschko


"Klitschko was a leading figure in the 2013-2014 Euromaidan protests, and he announced his possible candidacy for the Ukrainian presidency but later withdrew and endorsed Petro Poroshenko."

Uh-huh..

But I'm sure it's all Putin's fault.

 

[Genx87]

If only 15% of Crimeans support joining Russia, where is the resistance from the other 85%?

Gee I wonder why there wasnt much resistance. Couldnt be the Russian troops with tanks and APCs occupying the region? What a difficult concept to understand.

 

[zinfamous]

the question now is, Russian Forces stop.. or they dont.

if they dont, it moves to the baltic states, and from there, to nato territory...

The Baltic States are NATO territory.

read more.

 

[theeedude]

Gee I wonder why there wasnt much resistance. Couldnt be the Russian troops with tanks and APCs occupying the region? What a difficult concept to understand.

Only 15% are for joining Russia, but no armed resistance, not even massive unrest from the remaining 85%? I guess you are welcome to believe that.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Only 15% are for joining Russia, but no armed resistance, not even massive unrest from the remaining 85%? I guess you are welcome to believe that.

I'm sure you'd have grabbed a gun and a knife and ran out to charge the tens of thousands of Russian special forces and the hundreds of tanks they came with. You would be more than willing to sacrifice the lives of all you ever loved or cared about to prove that you'd not agree with their annexation!

 

[theeedude]

I'm sure you'd have grabbed a gun and a knife and ran out to charge the tens of thousands of Russian special forces and the hundreds of tanks they came with. You would be more than willing to sacrifice the lives of all you ever loved or cared about to prove that you'd not agree with their annexation!

One of these Crimean pictures is not like the others:

 

[Victorian Gray]

One of these Crimean pictures is not like the others:

This just a hobby or are you getting paid?

 

[zanejohnson]

The Baltic States are NATO territory.

read more.

They're NATo like UKRAINE is nato....

 

[fskimospy]

They're NATo like UKRAINE is nato....

The Baltic states are full members of NATO. Ukraine is not.

 

[Genx87]

Only 15% are for joining Russia, but no armed resistance, not even massive unrest from the remaining 85%? I guess you are welcome to believe that.

Really? I think you watch too many movies.