so i got a DUI...

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
Well, it looks like all of the little kiddies finally got out of bed. Plenty of name-calling and irrational logic going on it what started off as an intelligent discussion. I'll start with thepd since he decided to begin his conversation with name calling.

Originally posted by: thepd7
OP is an idiot, Dain is an idiot, and alkemyst is an idiot.

Dain: alcohol affects you. You don't need a study to tell you that. ANY alcohol affects your body. The reason the limit stands at .08 is because some people are too impaired to drive properly at .08. Can some people drive fine at .08, even .10? Probably, but that doesn't matter.

You know the ****** law, you know how many drinks you have had. I drink and I wait until I am sure that I am below .08 to drive. It is a very simple concept. Don't bitch about MADD because you can't follow a simple law.

Okay, so you admit that some people can probably drive fine at .10 but then you say that that doesn't matter? That's a pretty idiotic statement in itself. It is not against the law to drive with alcohol in your system. It is against the law to drive while drunk. That's why, typically speaking, field sobriety tests are more accurate of an indicator than breath tests since an old alcoholic could pass it while @ .12 more easily than your mom could stone cold sober.

Try to use logic when engaging in a big-boy coversation.

Don't go there man. I respect you a lot, I just happen to think that you couldn't be more wrong on this issue.

What I said is not idiotic for a few reasons. First off, like I said, there is NO ONE that is COMPLETELY unaffected by a .08 BAC. Some are affected less than others but it still remains everyone is somewhat affected. Second, you cannot have a subjective law. You have to make the law for everyone and you need to have a measureable standard for the legal limit. If all you had was field sobriety tests (which is what it seems many of the people in this thread want), so many people would get off who were legitimately drunk because an attorney could destroy a cop on stand who had ever done anything wrong in their job. People would be getting off left and right, and no one wants that.

Lastly, it is SO easy to just make sure you don't drive while at the legal limit. Follow my 3 easy steps on page 2. It is a minor inconvenience at best that has (hopefully) saved thousands of lives.

From everything I have read by you on the forum you seem bright and like a cool guy, but you are dead wrong on this, and that is why I called you an idiot.

 

[SampSon]

This thread is full of a bunch of self-righteous tools, just like any other thread involving trouble with the law.
There are a few people here who have a clue of what they are talking about. The rest probably haven't spoken to a police officer since they last saw one in their highschool classroom for a D.A.R.E lecture. A lawyer is something their parents talked about when going through divorce proceedings. Don't you kids have tests to study for or something? Your parents money is going to waste!

It's a DUI, first time offender with what I'm assuming to be a very clean record. Money, bvllshit classes and time will make it go away.
Is it a serious offense? The magic 8-ball says "not really, you'll be ok".

Here are some things I've learned from this thread:

- It is not ok to make any mistakes in your life. If you do make a mistake that breaks a law, you should be strung up with no questions asked. (unless it involves pirating software or music or mabey underage drinking).
- If you have a family member or friend who was ever involved in the subject matter, you know everything there is to know about it (a prime example is the self-righteous Pacfanweb and his alcoholic waste of a father. Bitter much?)
- The world works in absolutes. Except, of course, when you are put into the situation in which you think is black and white.
- Jail solves all problems. It is the ultimate in human rehabilitation.
- No laws are up for interpretation. There is no subjectivity in the legal system. (thepd7 gets credit for this fantastic piece of information).
- Remember, making a mistake is punishable by death! Life -must- be lived perfectly! Unless of course it happens to you. Wait, did I already say that?
- Everyone really truely, deeply, cares about acemcmac, but only after he passed away (this is really ****** sad, seriously).
- Studies you read on the internet are absolute, undeniable truth (see "life is black and white clause).
- The needs of many outweigh the needs of one, unless it is your life, then that doesn't apply.
- Once a criminal, always a criminal.
- Police officers and the system are infallible, we only utilize robots.
- Making a mistake is unforgivable... wait, this sounds familiar.
and last but not least...
- Asparagus makes your urine smell funny.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: SampSon
*stuff*

While I think the DIAF comments are overdoing things just a tad, I don't think it's entirely unfounded. There are 2 ways to drive a multi-ton piece of metal: safely and unsafely(if you're not the former, you're the latter). Driving while intoxicated unfairly puts everyone else at great risk; every accident, injury, and death caused by it can be prevented. Yet the sad part is that people keep doing this.

There's no excuse for a DUI, there's no excuse for risking other peoples' lives. This passive attitude towards it only makes things worse.

 

[judasmachine]

a OTer was killed by a drunk driver, so I wouldn't expect much sympathy here.

 

[SampSon]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: SampSon
*stuff*

While I think the DIAF comments are overdoing things just a tad, I don't think it's entirely unfounded. There are 2 ways to drive a multi-ton piece of metal: safely and unsafely(if you're not the former, you're the latter). Driving while intoxicated unfairly puts everyone else at great risk; every accident, injury, and death caused by it can be prevented. Yet the sad part is that people keep doing this.

There's no excuse for a DUI, there's no excuse for risking other peoples' lives. This passive attitude towards it only makes things worse.

Since I don't drink and drive, nor do I let drunk people drive, I'm not very passive about it. I just don't think anyone who ever drinks and drives or gets in any sort of trouble relating to it should be cruxified. The world isn't black and white, no matter how hard everyone wants it to be.

So many things can be prevented, like gun deaths, deaths from poor eating habits, drugs, smoking, fighting, sports, breathing, just about anything. The cliche statements don't change the fact that were all humans and humans make mistakes. Sure if you make that same "mistake" many times (in the case of driving intoxicated) then you should be severely punished. I don't think many will argue against that.

As for driving vehicles safely, how many people go out and drive like complete assholes? Driving cars that have way too much power (and abusing it, which many here are guilty of), talking on cell phones, looking for something they dropped on the floor, hell they even have insurance commercials about this stuff. I'm more concerned about teenage drivers than drunk drivers. I will not attempt to justify drinking and driving, but I will never forget the human element. Too many people here really expect life to be so regulated that you can't even leave your house without swiping an ID card.

The DIAF comments come out of the box whenever anybody communicates they didn't do something by the book. As if the people who make thoes knee-jerk reactions live perfect lives. Self-righteous individuals flock to this forum, I can find no explanation or reason for their superiority complexes. So many people here simply need to get over themselves. God forbid that they one day make a mistake and they can't understand why the entire world wants to hang them upsidedown and drain their blood.

 

[TallBill]

Never ever blow if you KNOW that you will fail. Its worth losing your license for 6 months and admitting nothing!

Obviously its better to just not do it, but I wont say that I never have, and never will again.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: TallBill
Never ever blow if you KNOW that you will fail. Its worth losing your license for 6 months and admitting nothing!

Obviously its better to just not do it, but I wont say that I never have, and never will again.

Any lawyer, atleast in most states, will tell you the same thing. Do NOT agree to field soberity tests if you've been drinking. Sure they'll tow your car, but they'll do that anyways.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: SampSon
This thread is full of a bunch of self-righteous tools, just like any other thread involving trouble with the law.
There are a few people here who have a clue of what they are talking about. The rest probably haven't spoken to a police officer since they last saw one in their highschool classroom for a D.A.R.E lecture. A lawyer is something their parents talked about when going through divorce proceedings. Don't you kids have tests to study for or something? Your parents money is going to waste!

It's a DUI, first time offender with what I'm assuming to be a very clean record. Money, bvllshit classes and time will make it go away.
Is it a serious offense? The magic 8-ball says "not really, you'll be ok".

Here are some things I've learned from this thread:

- It is not ok to make any mistakes in your life. If you do make a mistake that breaks a law, you should be strung up with no questions asked. (unless it involves pirating software or music or mabey underage drinking).
- If you have a family member or friend who was ever involved in the subject matter, you know everything there is to know about it (a prime example is the self-righteous Pacfanweb and his alcoholic waste of a father. Bitter much?)
- The world works in absolutes. Except, of course, when you are put into the situation in which you think is black and white.
- Jail solves all problems. It is the ultimate in human rehabilitation.
- No laws are up for interpretation. There is no subjectivity in the legal system. (thepd7 gets credit for this fantastic piece of information).
- Remember, making a mistake is punishable by death! Life -must- be lived perfectly! Unless of course it happens to you. Wait, did I already say that?
- Everyone really truely, deeply, cares about acemcmac, but only after he passed away (this is really ****** sad, seriously).
- Studies you read on the internet are absolute, undeniable truth (see "life is black and white clause).
- The needs of many outweigh the needs of one, unless it is your life, then that doesn't apply.
- Once a criminal, always a criminal.
- Police officers and the system are infallible, we only utilize robots.
- Making a mistake is unforgivable... wait, this sounds familiar.
and last but not least...
- Asparagus makes your urine smell funny.

The law says: if you blow a .08 or over, you are impaired. How is that open to interpretation? Is .08 % Blood Alcohol Content subjective? Can you argue with any of my reasons why the law should not be subjective in this case? Please explain.

All I did was explain why I called the OP an idiot. I have made mistakes and I will continue to. However, I will never make the mistake of getting a DUI because it is just that simple and easy not too. On top of that, you are putting countless lives at risk.

I forgive the OP, but I still think he is an idiot for driving while impaired. That is ABSOLUTELY true.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: TallBill
Never ever blow if you KNOW that you will fail. Its worth losing your license for 6 months and admitting nothing!

Obviously its better to just not do it, but I wont say that I never have, and never will again.

Any lawyer, atleast in most states, will tell you the same thing. Do NOT agree to field soberity tests if you've been drinking. Sure they'll tow your car, but they'll do that anyways.

Also, do not make a statement whenever arrested. You'd be suprised how many cases are made on sworn statements. Then again, usually criminals are dumbasses anyways.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: Injury
Either way, it still shows that you can't go by a standardized number.

Sure you can. .08 and over is legally impaired. End of story.
Doesn't matter if you can walk a line and touch your nose...your REACTIONS are impaired at and above that level. Maybe some folks' are impaired less than others, but they are impaired, nonetheless.
Again, just because you can walk, not piss yourself, and form complete sentences does NOT mean your reactions are not impaired.

My dad could drink more than anyone I've ever seen. He threw a party once, a pig picking. A guy that worked for him told me after that night "I spilled more liquor on the ground carrying his cup to him than most people could drink."
As a child, I rode home with him hundreds, literally hundreds of nights when he had consumed a FIFTH or more of whiskey, and he never even came close to having a wreck. I've been over 100mph with him drunk tons of times.
But there was barely any traffic back then, thankfully. As it is, I'm very lucky to be alive, looking back.
He could function just fine, and pass a field sobriety test just fine, even when hammered.
But we were just lucky. That's all. Lucky. His reactions were definitely way off.
Had no business behind the wheel. But he did it night after night, and got away with it.
Still doesn't make it right. I quit riding with him after I could drive myself.

Scary to think how many people used to be, and maybe still are, out there just like him....just waiting to become another DUI statistic.
Maybe there aren't as many because of the tougher laws we have now.

You missed the point I made in another post. My comment about not being able to trust standardized numbers is why the legal limit is at something that a lot of people consider too low. I'm sure the margin of error isn't THAT far off, but after reading up on the accuracy of these tests, there is the likelyhood of some error, especially on the operator's part.

Regardless of this, there is no reason why you can't just be 100% certain of your ability by just NOT driving.

Sampson: It's not that I don't believe in forgiveness or think that someone should spend their life in jail for a first offense, but there is no rule that says you can't get someone hurt if you haven't gotten a first DUI, and it seems to me that a lot of people are repeat offenders. It's like "Okay, you f**ked up, what do you want, a hug and thumbs up?" Should we tell him we're sorry that he got caught doing it? I believe in forgiveness, but "It really sucked. Any lawyers in the house?" doesn't sound remorseful to me.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: smack Down

Originally posted by: thepd7
OP is an idiot, Dain is an idiot, and alkemyst is an idiot.

Dain: alcohol affects you. You don't need a study to tell you that. ANY alcohol affects your body. The reason the limit stands at .08 is because some people are too impaired to drive properly at .08. Can some people drive fine at .08, even .10? Probably, but that doesn't matter.

You know the ****** law, you know how many drinks you have had. I drink and I wait until I am sure that I am below .08 to drive. It is a very simple concept. Don't bitch about MADD because you can't follow a simple law.

How the hell do you know if your under .08. You can't it is retard to have a law that it is impossible to know if you are breaking it.

Then you must be an idiot, and anyone else who says they don't know if they're over the limit is one, too.
There have been charts for freaking YEARS that show how much alcohol you can consume each hour and still be safely under the limit or not.
My guess is, these charts probably were slanted to the lower side, meaning that you could actually exceed their amounts slightly and still be okay.
So when someone actually does exceed the safe amount to drink and still be under the limit, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THEM NOT KNOWING IT.

Again, if you don't know when you've exceeded a safe amount to drink and drive legally, or at least that you're close, you are a Class A, registered-with-papers, DUMBASS.

So you agree that the charts are wrong but claim people are dumbass if they don't know they have gone over the limit.

No, not at all. I'm only guessing that the charts might be tilted in favor of the safe side.
Everyone should take them at face value....which means that if they do have a margin of error, then you are an extra-special dumbass for not knowing you exceeded your safe amount.
But keep trying to twist what I said around if it suits you.

BTW, the chart I linked assumed that each drink had 1 ounce of 100-proof alcohol. So if you find your body weight on there, and stick to what it says you can drink, but you're only drinking say, 70-proof, then you should be well under the limit.
Again, it's very easy to remember, and there is no excuse for "not knowing" how much you can drink and still be legal.

And if you even THINK that you might not be under the legal limit, then you shouldn't drive, PERIOD.

I'm sorry but your the dumbass, an extra special one to. Those charts have some many dislacmers and what not saying they are not accurate and a many additional factors can effect the BAC level. But you dumbass still is trying to claim you you know the difference between .07 and .08.

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
just wanna share. Make all the jail jokes as pleased, but it really sucked.

btw: anyway lawyers in the house?

I'll be a lawyer in ~2-3 months, but I can't/won't help you because I am 100% biased against anyone who drives while drunk. I was hit by a drunk driver while sitting at a stop light about 10 years ago. His truck was going ~40mph when he hit me. Luckily I was not hurt, but when I got out of the car the idiot backed his car off mine, turned down a side street and drove away like a bat our of hell. Fortunately there was a cop making a traffic stop just 1/4 mile up the road. I told the cop what happened, they put an APB out on the guy and 5 minutesd later he was pulled over. A-hole damn near killed me and the first thing he could think of was run. To this day I still get jumpy while sitting at stoplights at night.

In summary, I hope you get what you deserve, and learn not to put other peopels lives at risk because you were too f'ing stuipid to act responsibly. F'ing idiot.

Oh, and I don;t care if this was your first time offense. This might have been a mistake, but it was a big f'ing mistake. I see/hear don;t drive while drunk ads about 10 times a day. How f'ing stupid do you have to be to do it anyway?

BTW, one of my former friends killed somebody during his first "mistake" while driving drunk. He didn't go to jail, but he is no longer my friend and he has to live with the fact that he killed someone's 18 year old daughter for the rest of his life.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: andylawcc
just wanna share. Make all the jail jokes as pleased, but it really sucked.

btw: anyway lawyers in the house?

I'll be a lawyer in ~2-3 months, but I can't/won't help you because I am 100% biased against anyone who drives while drunk. I was hit by a drunk driver while sitting at a stop light about 10 years ago. His truck was going ~40mph when he hit me. Luckily I was not hurt, but when I got out of the car the idiot backed his car off mine, turned down a side street and drove away like a bat our of hell. Fortunately there was a cop making a traffic stop just 1/4 mile up the road. I told the cop what happened, they put an APB out on the guy and 5 minutesd later he was pulled over. A-hole damn near killed me and the first thing he could think of was run. To this day I still get jumpy while sitting at stoplights at night.

In summary, I hope you get what you deserve, and learn not to put other peopels lives at risk because you were too f'ing stuipid to act responsibly. F'ing idiot.

And I hope, that as a future lawyer, you learn to see the world in a more unbiased manner. However, I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

 

[Stumps]

I can't believe the crap in this thread actually justifying drink driving.

To those that are trying to justify it...lets see how you feel when one of your loved ones gets killed by a drunk driver.

Absolutly pathetic...

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: andylawcc
just wanna share. Make all the jail jokes as pleased, but it really sucked.

btw: anyway lawyers in the house?

I'll be a lawyer in ~2-3 months, but I can't/won't help you because I am 100% biased against anyone who drives while drunk. I was hit by a drunk driver while sitting at a stop light about 10 years ago. His truck was going ~40mph when he hit me. Luckily I was not hurt, but when I got out of the car the idiot backed his car off mine, turned down a side street and drove away like a bat our of hell. Fortunately there was a cop making a traffic stop just 1/4 mile up the road. I told the cop what happened, they put an APB out on the guy and 5 minutesd later he was pulled over. A-hole damn near killed me and the first thing he could think of was run. To this day I still get jumpy while sitting at stoplights at night.

In summary, I hope you get what you deserve, and learn not to put other peopels lives at risk because you were too f'ing stuipid to act responsibly. F'ing idiot.

And I hope, that as a future lawyer, you learn to see the world in a more unbiased manner. However, I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

Having experienced being hit by a drunk driver/hit and run myself, I am comfortable saying that I am biased with respect to this one thing. I am not going to be some sycophant that has no opinion about anything, and your palty attempt at a guilt trip is not going to change my mind about this. Driving Drunk is ALWAYS wrong. Don't try to convince me otherwise, because you are barking up the wrong tree. This is one area of the law where I think that per se liability is absolutely in order. FYI, per se liability = if you did it, you ARE liable, period. Drunk driving is absolutely inexcuseable and irresponsible behavior. So what if it was a mistake, you did it, your liable. Done.

/rant.

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: Stumps
I can't believe the crap in this thread actually justifying drink driving.

To those that are trying to justify it...lets see how you feel when one of your loved ones gets killed by a drunk driver.

Absolutly pathetic...

Amen to that. :thumbsup:

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: Stumps
I can't believe the crap in this thread actually justifying drink driving.

To those that are trying to justify it...lets see how you feel when one of your loved ones gets killed by a drunk driver.

Absolutly pathetic...

I don't think there are many people here attempting to "justify" drunk driving. It's more a matter of disagreement over the operationalization of the term "drunk" or "impaired" in relation to driving, and the severity of the consequences in relation to the type of offense.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: andylawcc
just wanna share. Make all the jail jokes as pleased, but it really sucked.

btw: anyway lawyers in the house?

I'll be a lawyer in ~2-3 months, but I can't/won't help you because I am 100% biased against anyone who drives while drunk. I was hit by a drunk driver while sitting at a stop light about 10 years ago. His truck was going ~40mph when he hit me. Luckily I was not hurt, but when I got out of the car the idiot backed his car off mine, turned down a side street and drove away like a bat our of hell. Fortunately there was a cop making a traffic stop just 1/4 mile up the road. I told the cop what happened, they put an APB out on the guy and 5 minutesd later he was pulled over. A-hole damn near killed me and the first thing he could think of was run. To this day I still get jumpy while sitting at stoplights at night.

In summary, I hope you get what you deserve, and learn not to put other peopels lives at risk because you were too f'ing stuipid to act responsibly. F'ing idiot.

And I hope, that as a future lawyer, you learn to see the world in a more unbiased manner. However, I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

Having experienced being hit by a drunk driver/hit and run myself, I am comfortable saying that I am biased with respect to this one thing. I am not going to be some sycophant that has no opinion about anything, and your palty attempt at a guilt trip is not going to change my mind about this. Driving Drunk is ALWAYS wrong. Don't try to convince me otherwise, because you are barking up the wrong tree. This is one area of the law where I think that per se liability is absolutely in order. FYI, per se liability = if you did it, you ARE liable, period. Drunk driving is absolutely inexcuseable and irresponsible behavior. So what if it was a mistake, you did it, your liable. Done.

/rant.

There was no attempt made to change your mind; I don't harbor any illusions that anything I say in an online forum will ever be taken to heart. I was simply stating my opinion in response to yours, to which we both are welcome. As long as you don't ever end up defending someone accused of DUI, your bias should have little effect on your competency as a lawyer.

 

[Injury]

Just checked one of my favorite websites today and found something that is an interesting read for this thread:

http://www.cockeyed.com/science/breathalyzer/breathalyser01.shtml

 

[patentman]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: patentman

Originally posted by: andylawcc
just wanna share. Make all the jail jokes as pleased, but it really sucked.

btw: anyway lawyers in the house?

I'll be a lawyer in ~2-3 months, but I can't/won't help you because I am 100% biased against anyone who drives while drunk. I was hit by a drunk driver while sitting at a stop light about 10 years ago. His truck was going ~40mph when he hit me. Luckily I was not hurt, but when I got out of the car the idiot backed his car off mine, turned down a side street and drove away like a bat our of hell. Fortunately there was a cop making a traffic stop just 1/4 mile up the road. I told the cop what happened, they put an APB out on the guy and 5 minutesd later he was pulled over. A-hole damn near killed me and the first thing he could think of was run. To this day I still get jumpy while sitting at stoplights at night.

In summary, I hope you get what you deserve, and learn not to put other peopels lives at risk because you were too f'ing stuipid to act responsibly. F'ing idiot.

And I hope, that as a future lawyer, you learn to see the world in a more unbiased manner. However, I have a feeling I will be disappointed.

Having experienced being hit by a drunk driver/hit and run myself, I am comfortable saying that I am biased with respect to this one thing. I am not going to be some sycophant that has no opinion about anything, and your palty attempt at a guilt trip is not going to change my mind about this. Driving Drunk is ALWAYS wrong. Don't try to convince me otherwise, because you are barking up the wrong tree. This is one area of the law where I think that per se liability is absolutely in order. FYI, per se liability = if you did it, you ARE liable, period. Drunk driving is absolutely inexcuseable and irresponsible behavior. So what if it was a mistake, you did it, your liable. Done.

/rant.

There was no attempt made to change your mind; I don't harbor any illusions that anything I say in an online forum will ever be taken to heart. I was simply stating my opinion in response to yours, to which we both are welcome. As long as you don't ever end up defending someone accused of DUI, your bias should have little effect on your competency as a lawyer.

Fair enough, and I beleive I already indicated that I was aware that my bias would prevent me from defending anyone accused of drunk driving. I have no plans to be a public defender or a criminal defense attorney anyway. That is obvious from my alias.

 

[BabaBooey]

Too bad you did not kill yourself ...WTF is wrong with you ,are you just retarded or purely a total idiot ?

Maybe next time you can aim for that big oak tree or wall and do us all a favor...

 

[Amused]

It's kinda curious how the OP never told us what he blew or what his BAC was.

Oh well, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has poor judgment from time to time. If this was your first offense, hopefully you learned your lesson.

If not, hopefully you get what's coming to you.

And some of the people in this thread need to chill. You know nothing other than he had a DUI and you're calling for blood.

There ARE mitigating factors. Like first offense, how high he blew and so on. To treat him like he's a habitual DUI offender who blew twice the legal limit is absurd.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Amused
It's kinda curious how the OP never told us what he blew or what his BAC was.

Oh well, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has poor judgment from time to time. If this was your first offense, hopefully you learned your lesson.

If not, hopefully you get what's coming to you.

And some of the people in this thread need to chill. You know nothing other than he had a DUI and you're calling for blood.

There ARE mitigating factors. Like first offense, how high he blew and so on. To treat him like he's a habitual DUI offender who blew twice the legal limit is absurd.

First time offenders can kill just as much as a repeat offender...there is no excuse for drink driving....


Simply don't do it.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

A summary of argument-based OT threads:

You're logic is way off because you can't even use logic you kiddie n00b. Logic pwns all and apparently you can't use logic because I'm right and you are wrong therefore you can't use logic. Logic, logic, logic, use logic, you can't use logic, but I can use logic because I logic am smarter logic than you logic. Try to logic more logic before you logic another logic post.. logic..

 

[j00fek]

good job