So, does the 7950GX2 count as a single card solution?

[lopri]

Originally posted by: munky
I have a feeling Ati will do something like this too. Which isnt necesarily a good thing, because I always prefer a single fast gpu over 2 slower ones. It may be in the form of 2 x1900gt cards slapped together, but I dont think they're technologically ready to release something like that and not have it perform like a rushed effort. I'd much rather see them tweak the r580 design some more, maybe move to the 80nm process, and adopt a beefier and quieter cooling solution. If they could release a 750mhz r580 with a cooler similar to the 7900gtx, I'd prefer that option. Oh, and hopefully with wider availability than a gtx512.

The problem is, that neither NV nor ATI has much contorl or ability on manufacturing. Indeed, they don't even have a fab. ASIC manufacturing is mostly accelarated by CPU/Memory manufacturers and so CPU business is, in naive terms, more about manufacturing than technology. No matter how fantastic a chip's design is on the drawing board, without proper manufacturing process, well, it's just a piece of paper.

So NV and ATI should make the most efficient design within current/near-future manufacturing technology. And as fab-less companies, the manufacturing tech available to them are more or less equal. I don't think TSMC will suddenly be able to do 45nm process and make wafers for ATI (or NV) only with that process.

Many people conveniently forget about the above fact. Given similar manufacturing processes, ATI/NV's products will be relatively similar. People talking NV's laziness or something like that regarding their multi-GPU solution, try flipping that question. Why can't ATI make a single chip that performs 2~3 times better than NV's dual chips? Still think NV is lazy?

With current PCI-E interconnect, and given manufacturing processes available to ATI/NV, multi-GPU solution is, and will be, ALWAYS faster. It's not about being lazy but NV was rather smart and saw the opportunity earlier than ATI. Heck, $150 7600GT is much faster and cooler than 6800 Ultra which was $600 a year and a half ago.

A single card solution will NEVER be faster than a dual card solution with PCI-E. It has nothing to do with lack of creativeness. If anything, when it comes to PCI-E graphics cards, NV has been more creative than ATI. (I'm NOT talking about an individual ASIC. I totally agree that R580/R600 is a much advanced design than G70/G71)

 

[otispunkmeyer]

if it fits in one slot.. i couldnt care if it had a billion gpu's

if its in one slot, then its one card surely, you buy them as whole unit, ie one piece.

 

[Exsomnis]

It's just two 7900 GO cards stuck together, it has a core and memory on each card, they're just stuck together and they use the same PCI-E slot because they're both running at 8x PCI-E thanks to the mobile architecture. It's not one card. :roll:

If it was one card, some genius please tell me why it needs two GPU coolers.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Exsomnis
It's just two 7900 GO cards stuck together, it has a core and memory on each card, they're just stuck together and they use the same PCI-E slot because they're both running at 8x PCI-E thanks to the mobile architecture. It's not one card. :roll:

If it was one card, some genius please tell me why it needs two GPU coolers.

I've seen 2 fans on a single GPU, would you consider that 2 cards each with 1/2 GPU?? :roll:

This is one card because it doesn't require sli.

 

[nullpointerus]

The word card as used here is short for expansion card, which is something that plugs into a bus slot and expands the computers capabilities; the number of PCBs is irrelevant.

 

[AkumaX]

Originally posted by: Exsomnis
It's just two 7900 GO cards stuck together, it has a core and memory on each card, they're just stuck together and they use the same PCI-E slot because they're both running at 8x PCI-E thanks to the mobile architecture. It's not one card. :roll:

If it was one card, some genius please tell me why it needs two GPU coolers.

well if you look at this picture, this card theoretically have 4 gpu coolers on it (just taken off to show the chipset). so what is this, 4 cards!?







i'll say it again, single PCI-E slot solution, with all the problems of SLI

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: CP5670
I personally don't really care much about the card's actual physical properties. I will just consider it a single card if it provides the same gaming experience as a comparably fast single card, which is usually not the case due to the SLI vsync issues in most games.

The vsync problem is still there isn't it?

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Exsomnis
If it had two cores on one PCB, it would be a single card solution. The fact is that it's two 512MB 7900 GOs stuck together with clever marketing.

Yea, its misleading until you physically see the card.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: lopri

Originally posted by: munky
I have a feeling Ati will do something like this too. Which isnt necesarily a good thing, because I always prefer a single fast gpu over 2 slower ones. It may be in the form of 2 x1900gt cards slapped together, but I dont think they're technologically ready to release something like that and not have it perform like a rushed effort. I'd much rather see them tweak the r580 design some more, maybe move to the 80nm process, and adopt a beefier and quieter cooling solution. If they could release a 750mhz r580 with a cooler similar to the 7900gtx, I'd prefer that option. Oh, and hopefully with wider availability than a gtx512.

The problem is, that neither NV nor ATI has much contorl or ability on manufacturing. Indeed, they don't even have a fab. ASIC manufacturing is mostly accelarated by CPU/Memory manufacturers and so CPU business is, in naive terms, more about manufacturing than technology. No matter how fantastic a chip's design is on the drawing board, without proper manufacturing process, well, it's just a piece of paper.

So NV and ATI should make the most efficient design within current/near-future manufacturing technology. And as fab-less companies, the manufacturing tech available to them are more or less equal. I don't think TSMC will suddenly be able to do 45nm process and make wafers for ATI (or NV) only with that process.

Many people conveniently forget about the above fact. Given similar manufacturing processes, ATI/NV's products will be relatively similar. People talking NV's laziness or something like that regarding their multi-GPU solution, try flipping that question. Why can't ATI make a single chip that performs 2~3 times better than NV's dual chips? Still think NV is lazy?

With current PCI-E interconnect, and given manufacturing processes available to ATI/NV, multi-GPU solution is, and will be, ALWAYS faster. It's not about being lazy but NV was rather smart and saw the opportunity earlier than ATI. Heck, $150 7600GT is much faster and cooler than 6800 Ultra which was $600 a year and a half ago.

A single card solution will NEVER be faster than a dual card solution with PCI-E. It has nothing to do with lack of creativeness. If anything, when it comes to PCI-E graphics cards, NV has been more creative than ATI. (I'm NOT talking about an individual ASIC. I totally agree that R580/R600 is a much advanced design than G70/G71)

That is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought about ATI and NV sharing fabs, I knew they did but I filed it away in the not important side of things. I guess If your compition has the same resources and you can't get the jump on them with smaller die process then it is a pretty good idea to go the multi-gpu route. Given the pci-e bus this is a good route to go.

Do you think that TSMC will be able to do a 80nm process for ATI rather quickly? I don't know what the capablities are of their fab process, but it would make for a nice card if the drop to 80nm produces quite a bit more speed which i don't think it will.

*waits for ATI's turn at bat*

 

[Munky]

I know Nv and Ati use the same fabs. But the choice is still up to them when and how to switch to a newer process. Just like the r300 used the older 150nm process while the nv30 used the newer 130nm process. I'm not sure how TSMC is doing with 80nm dies, but Ati with their huge dies would benefit from a smaller die much more than Nv. But if a new process is not mature enough, then dual-gpu's is the obvious alternative way of one-upping the competition.

 

[Ackmed]

I voted no. It is two cards, and you still need SLI enabled in the drivers. I can see it both ways however. However, at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter.

 

[WelshBloke]

Does it matter?

More importantly does it work like a single card? Can you use two moniters?

 

[SolMiester]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
The word card as used here is short for expansion card, which is something that plugs into a bus slot and expands the computers capabilities; the number of PCBs is irrelevant.

Yes, thank-you, a logical answer. 1 Card to 1 PCIe slot = single card solution. Now if this is faster than GTX, NV have now restored their single card crown....LOL
Is it me, or does it appears that only ATI owners think otherwise.

ALL hale the new old champion.

 

[Captante]

This card is really generating a lot more exitement then I think its worthy of... cards very similar to this have been around for several years in 6800GT form (forget who made it) & a very pricy Asus 7800GT which is still for sale on Newegg, all this is as far as I can tell is a slicker implementation of the same thing.

Not to say its a bad idea, or that it won't be fast ... I'm sure it will be ... its just not that big a deal.

 

[Exsomnis]

The Asus Dual 7800GT was the last dual-GPU single card solution.

The 7950GX2 is without a doubt a very nice piece of hardware, and the most powerful out, but it's not a single card. It's two stuck together.

Stop kidding yourselves, especially those who think I am saying this because I happen to own an ATi card. :roll:

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Exsomnis
The Asus Dual 7800GT was the last dual-GPU single card solution.

The 7950GX2 is without a doubt a very nice piece of hardware, and the most powerful out, but it's not a single card. It's two stuck together.

Stop kidding yourselves, especially those who think I am saying this because I happen to own an ATi card. :roll:

you are incorrect. Asus Dual 7800GT was not considered to be a single card because it required a MB with SLI chipset.

7950GX2 is a single PCI-E mb graphic card. looks to me NV has regained the single card crown here.

 

[Bull Dog]

The GX2 isn't a single card. I mean it has 2 PCBs, 2 GPUs, 2x512MB mempry. However it isn't really a double card solution either. So I call it a 1.5 card solution. nVIDIA hasn't taken the fastest single card crown away from ATI. nVIDIA touts the GX2 as a X1900XTX killer, but look at it, it costs more than an X1900XTX. The cheapest GX2 is $600 and the cheapest X1900XTX is $440 (AMIR), that isn't what I call price parady. Now, is it the fasted solution that only hogs two slots? The answer to that would be a resounding yes.

 

[Exsomnis]

Originally posted by: beggerking
you are incorrect. Asus Dual 7800GT was not considered to be a single card because it required a MB with SLI chipset.

All the 7950GX2 does is to send two signals at 8x linkspeed through the 16x PCI-E slot, the same thing that the Dual 7800GT did. In that respect, the Dual 7800GT was actually more advanced due to it actually being a single card solution, but it had a limit on how much power could actually be put onto the board.

Since then we've already mastered dual x16 SLi on PCI-E, but because the 7950GX2 is two individual cards slapped together, it has to run both at x8 and have an in-built SLi bridge.

7950GX2 is a single PCI-E mb graphic card. looks to me NV has regained the single card crown here.

When they put two G71's on one PCB, and they probably can now that SLi technology has advanced, then they would've regained the single card crown. The 7950GX2 is amazing and unique, it's even decent value for money, but a single card it is not. Just two cards running at half bandwidth, glued together with an SLi bridge.

Stop kidding yourself, it's nothing but a marketing gimmick. Stick two mobile 512MB Geforce 7900 GO cards together, call it the first 1GB card in the world and the fastest out, and people like you will eat it up without even thinking about what it really is first.

Tell me; If ATi developed a Crossfire setup that allowed the whole signal to go through the dongle instead of the second PCI-E slot, would you call it a single card solution? No, because it wouldn't be one. Just because they're bolted together doesn't make a difference at all, it's two graphics cards.

Next you'll say that two siamese twins who share a heart are one person.

 

[hans007]

well i had a vooodoo5 5500 before and i considred that a single card. then again this has 2 pcbs, but i suppose its still a single card, i mean whats the difference, it even uses less power than the x1900xt. rage fury maxx was a single card too, and there are 3d cards with multi GPUs that peopel call a single card as well matrox g200 mms, etc.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well, i think what NV did was great.

Why release a hot, power hungry 32 pipe monster but rather a solution where not only its cooler (less nosiey), but consumes less power while being 30~50% faster than the competition in various games at 16x12 4xAA 16xAF. AND has the ability to go quad SLi.

Now not only this but it takes up the same slots as a X1900XT/XTX AND only need one PCI-e slot.

 

[Munky]

See, the term "Quad SLI" itself means that there's technically 4 video cards. The marketing f**ks spent so much effort trying to pass it off as one card, but then when asked what do you call 2 of them in SLI, they look at the picture and go "Duhhhh... ummmm... Quad SLi???"

 

[Golgatha]

I'd say it is a single card solution. The Voodoo 5 5500 had two cores with a bridge between them and the AGP interface. Just because it is on 2 PCBs makes no difference to me. That said, the implementation is anything but seemless and it has a lot of issues. The Voodoo 5 5500 didn't have issues with any games on the market at the time of release and worked on any standard AGP interface without a BIOS update. However, I'm not sure who to blame for the PCIe switch issue. nVidia for a poor implementation or motherboard manufacturers for setting the PCIe 16x slots for graphics cards only in the BIOS and having to update their BIOS code because they weren't strictly following PCIe standards.

 

[Golgatha]

Originally posted by: munky
See, the term "Quad SLI" itself means that there's technically 4 video cards. The marketing f**ks spent so much effort trying to pass it off as one card, but then when asked what do you call 2 of them in SLI, they look at the picture and go "Duhhhh... ummmm... Quad SLi???"

Well then what are you going to call a quad core CPU that plugs into a single socket? Also, by Quad SLI, I'd say they mean quad GPUs.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: munky
See, the term "Quad SLI" itself means that there's technically 4 video cards. The marketing f**ks spent so much effort trying to pass it off as one card, but then when asked what do you call 2 of them in SLI, they look at the picture and go "Duhhhh... ummmm... Quad SLi???"

Is there a Quad SLI solution that requires more than 2 cards?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: munky
See, the term "Quad SLI" itself means that there's technically 4 video cards. The marketing f**ks spent so much effort trying to pass it off as one card, but then when asked what do you call 2 of them in SLI, they look at the picture and go "Duhhhh... ummmm... Quad SLi???"

Is there a Quad SLI solution that requires more than 2 cards?

Depends if you count the gx2 as 1 or 2 cards. It may have something to do with its appearance - it actually looks like 2 cards stacked on top of each other.