So, does the 7950GX2 count as a single card solution?

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

BFG:"driver path"
BFG:"pipeline section"

Utter rubbish.

exactly. good you finally admitted to your rubbish.

mod pmed.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
It's much more than just pipeline stages but because you have no clue as to how HT actually works you don't understand the significance of me using the term "sections". Not only do you not understand but you try to make yourself look clever by linking to Wikipedia.

you still didn't explain what you mean by "section".. or did you mean to say "stages"?

the OS is the one that needs SLI to improve performance.

With a VGA driver the card won't run any 3D games so in otherwords the hardware will behave exactly like a 2D-only VGA card, proving that software has very much to do with the hardware unlike your delusional claims that it doesn't.

incorrect.
with VGA driver, data send to the card doesn't contain information to to run in 3d.

answer me this : do you consider dualcore CPU as I single CPU?

Nope.

ok..

because there are >1 GPU involved. Each GPU does part of the work.

So in otherwords you admit it's not a single card then?

GPU != card

bolded part indicates you don't truly understand what SLI software does; its data scheduling.

Data scheduling which isn't needed for single cards so by your a own admission the 7950 isn't a single card.

Data scheduling is needed for dualcore CPU which I consider as a single CPU.

"Hardware has nothing to do with software", so why does a 7950 need this "scheduling" while a single card doesn't?

Its the OS that need this "scheduling" to improve performance

well, your videocard will still "post" correctly. doesn't it? that means your videocard(physically) will still work.

And? My NIC posts without a driver too. Does that make it equal to a video card?
[/b]

if your NIC works the same internally as a videocard, then its a videocard..

"3D games, enable SLI, run shaders and/or run AF + AA" are all software aka data, which is send to the videocard to be output to monitor.

This is utter rubbish and proves yet again you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

AF and AA are not "data sent to the video card", it is data generated by the driver through the video card hardware.

Furthemore the types of AA and AF you can generate is determined both by the hardware and the driver.

AF and AA are instructions in data else your GPU won't know how/when to apply AF/AA.

it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware, the hardware's physical property determine what it is.

The physical properties are meaningless without drivers; furthermore the physical hardware properties determine what driver you load.

so our hardware determine when we use factory driver vs when we use tweaked drivers?

Your argument is beyond simpleton and it's simply comical how one so clueless can pretend to be so smart.

I'm smart enough to not inventing new terms such as "driver path" and "pipeline sections"

 

[Rangoric]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: Rangoric

Originally posted by: beggerking
but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards??

Bull. When the Gforce3 came out years ago, Dual Monitors was starting to be supported. It wasn't common and it wasn't standard (I.E. you had to buy a card that was "setup" for it). However, NVidia's cards could do it.

Here is a little page about the Gforce4

Actually it was back in the days of Matrox when it first came out, but it wasn't popular until GF5/GF6.
I said *most* cards prior to 6800 didn't have dual monitor support. Research before you reply. most Gf1,2,3,4,..voodoo,S3, matrox cards didn't have dual monitor support.

Noone cares when it first came out.
Gforce4 does support it.
I did my research, the specs for GForce4 support it. Heck, some GForce3's had the support, but until 4 it wasn't a part of the spec.

Or do you wanna show proof that most GForce4 cards are incapable of dual monitor support?

 

[redbox]

any other single 7 series card can do multi monitor but this one can't would show: this card is structured differently from other single 7 series card.

Well ya it IS structured differently it has two of everything, and requires SLI. Something single cards can't do.

quoted by redbox:

Yes software can be fooled but it is still bounded by hardware. Your comment about writing a useless program to use 1000000 cpu's just to prove that software can be fooled it like pushing against a wall. Your still pushing, but not getting anywhere. Ya your still running the program but not getting anywhere, because your bound by the hardware.

quoted by beggerking:

even though to software there are 1000000 cpus, in reality there is still 1 single cpu. This proves my point that what software sees does not reflect the actual hardware in the system. therefore, to say 7950GX2 is a single card because it uses SLI software is incorrect, since software does not reflect hardware

You still don't understand what I am trying to say: I didn't say this isn't hardware wise a dual card. I said in regards to software it is two or acts like a dual card setup. I don't care how the software works, or how it sees the gpu or cards the fact is that it gives the user the same experince that an SLI setup would. This card is just SLI in a box.


quoted by redbox:

I consider what the industry is calling a dualcore cpu to be a single die cpu. I do think I answered my self pretty extensivly though in the text, don't know why you had to ask again.

quoted by beggerking:

so you consider dualcore cpu to be a single cpu.. .. in a Pentium D, it is basically 2 seperate CPUs connected via a datapath.

How you got that from my extensive explaination I will never know. Did you read any of it. Slow down child and read carefully. " I consider what the industry is calling a dual core to be a single DIE cpu. I already told you I don't consider implementations like that in a Pentium D to be true dual core. Besides this card is along shot away from being considered dualcore. Lets flip it If they made it possible to bolt two motherboards together would you call it dualcore?

 

[BFG10K]

you still didn't explain what you mean by "section".. or did you mean to say "stages"?

You still didn't retract your BS explanantion of SLI AA and AA/AF being "sent" to the card.

incorrect.

What is incorrect?

with VGA driver, data send to the card doesn't contain information to to run in 3d.

So like I said the hardware has very much to do with the software. Do you have any reading comprehension skills?

GPU != card

What is a "card"?

Data scheduling is needed for dualcore CPU which I consider as a single CPU.

How can it be a single CPU given it has two CPUs on the core with complete replication?

Its the OS that need this "scheduling" to improve performance

:roll:

Well okay, in that case if the hardware has nothing to do with it why doesn't the OS need such scheduling when a single card is loaded?

if your NIC works the same internally as a videocard, then its a videocard..

Hang on, I thought you just told us hardware has nothing to do with the software?

Why then are you now telling us we need to load different software according to the hardware internals?

AF and AA are instructions in data else your GPU won't know how/when to apply AF/AA.

Instructions that are dictated by the driver and the GPU.

so our hardware determine when we use factory driver vs when we use tweaked drivers?

No, our hardware determines that I can't load a NIC driver on a GPU and determines I can't use SLI or SLI AA on a single card. Stop being so obtuse.

I'm smart enough to not inventing new terms such as "driver path" and "pipeline sections"

Yet you can't even construct English sentences or follow basic logic principles.

 

[Atheus]

I cannot believe this thread.

Originally posted by: BFG10K

GPU != card

What is a "card"?

A "card" is a PCB according to just about every computer scientist and electronic engineer I've ever spoken to, so a 7950 has 2 cards.

Data scheduling is needed for dualcore CPU which I consider as a single CPU.

How can it be a single CPU given it has two CPUs on the core with complete replication?

Actually it has two cores on the package.

It's still considered 2 CPUs though, because it's a parallel "multiprocessing" machine.

so our hardware determine when we use factory driver vs when we use tweaked drivers?

No, our hardware determines that I can't load a NIC driver on a GPU and determines I can't use SLI or SLI AA on a single card. Stop being so obtuse.

You don't "load drivers on" anything. I could use a NIC driver for a GPU if I wanted, nothing would stop me. It would send completely the wrong signals to the GPU, which would send some interesting garbage to the display and then crash, but nothing would stop it happening.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: redbox
You still don't understand what I am trying to say: I didn't say this isn't hardware wise a dual card. I said in regards to software it is two or acts like a dual card setup. I don't care how the software works, or how it sees the gpu or cards the fact is that it gives the user the same experince that an SLI setup would. This card is just SLI in a box.

Redbox, I think you might have to write an "emulator" and run your posts through that so that some people's "data paths"(or "driver paths") will be able to correctly understand what you're saying. Until you do so all they'll be arguing is semantics and any vaild points you make will be filtered out by their "logic". Remember, since "software has nothing to do with hardware" you can post all you want but some people's "hardware"(probably working with a 486 SX 33) is simply incapable of processing what you wrote.

In other words, don't bother.

 

[eastvillager]

dual-core cpu = single socket
dual-gpu graphics adapter = single slot

 

[guezz]

Yes, the card (actually two PCBs) has a single PCIe interface (which it splitted in two), but it consists of two GPUs.

It's SLI.

7950 GX2 512MB (500/1200) (PCIe)
- 24 pixel shader units ? 24 TMUs ? 16 ROPs - 8 vertex shader units (per GPU)
It?s important to emphasize that this ?card? uses SLI technology with its ups and downs (e.g. 512MB, not 1024MB). 7900 GT SLI is a bit weaker and the gap usually widens even further at extreme resolutions and/or settings. Motherboard and bios compatibility.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Its the OS that need this "scheduling" to improve performance

:roll:
Well okay, in that case if the hardware has nothing to do with it why doesn't the OS need such scheduling when a single card is loaded?

because in order for each GPU need to process different instructions, os needs to send "different" data to each GPU. OS controls what is being send, not hardware. all hardware does is input, process, and output regardless of software states.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: eastvillager
dual-core cpu = single socket
dual-gpu graphics adapter = single slot

Except its not that simple. The GX2 takes up more than just one slot, the one its plugged into, and another. A dual core CPU does not. The GX2 has two seperate PCB's, two seperate GPU's, two seperate fans, two seperate amounts of ram. The dual core CPU is nothing like it in that regard. The only thing they have in common, is that they both plug into one "slot". Looking at the outside of a dual core CPU, and a single core, you cannot tell the difference. You can with a GX2 and a single 7900 card very easily.

The votes are pretty much dead even, with a very small percentage leaning towards it being two cards. Thats my opinion on it. I can easily see two cards "bolted" together. It doesnt matter what it is really, all that matters is that its here, and aside from some bugs, works very well. The rest is not relevant. Most people here are not going to buy one, and some just want to claim a "victory" for the fastest "single" card out.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox

any other single 7 series card can do multi monitor but this one can't would show: this card is structured differently from other single 7 series card.

Well ya it IS structured differently it has two of everything, and requires SLI. Something single cards can't do.

but it is different from traditional SLI setup.. only uses 1 PCI-e socket, and does not require a SLI chipset.

for me, the # of PCI-e socket determines whether its a single/dual card..

You still don't understand what I am trying to say: I didn't say this isn't hardware wise a dual card. I said in regards to software it is two or acts like a dual card setup. I don't care how the software works, or how it sees the gpu or cards the fact is that it gives the user the same experince that an SLI setup would. This card is just SLI in a box.

Agreed. same as dualcore CPU which acts like 2 seperate CPUs in OS while using only a single socket.

How you got that from my extensive explaination I will never know. Did you read any of it. Slow down child and read carefully. " I consider what the industry is calling a dual core to be a single DIE cpu. I already told you I don't consider implementations like that in a Pentium D to be true dual core. Besides this card is along shot away from being considered dualcore. Lets flip it If they made it possible to bolt two motherboards together would you call it dualcore?

which is constantly debated. as I have said before.. if you don't consider a Pentium D as a single CPU, then you are correct to believe 7950gx2 as not a single card.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: eastvillager
dual-core cpu = single socket
dual-gpu graphics adapter = single slot

Except its not that simple. The GX2 takes up more than just one slot, the one its plugged into, and another.

by your analogy its the same as 1900xtx since 1900xtx takes up 2 slots as well..?

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: beggerking
do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

Here is what I think about your dual-core cpu as a single cpu:

From a hardware standpoint (physically) it is one cpu.
If the software sees it as two cpu's, and successfully gains performance from seeing that and utilizing two cpu's, then from a software standpoint (non-physically) it is two cpu's.

Once you add, "dual" anything, whether it be "card", "core", or even "GPU" it loses some part of its "single" attribute.

GPU != card

This is interesting. I've never seen a benchmark that is comparing nothing but the solder points on the pcb's between Nvidia and ATI. What do benchmarks compare when new "cards" come out? (Don't bother answering that question wrong or complicating it with more rambling, I'll answer it for you) They compare the GPU's themselves, which are structured onto the "card" with the corresponding memeory controllers routed to it, and the performance increases that can be gained from different GPU structuring. The 7950's GPU doesn't differ in structure at all compared to any other 79series. The only thing that is different is the number of "cards" and the SLI interface that has to exist between them.

Another interesting point beggerking is why when the 7950GX2 first came out. Why was it then useless to have two 7950GX2's? Why was it useless to try and do Quad-SLI with them? I suspect the new 91.31's are the drivers a user will need to run Quad-SLI, but why?

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: eastvillager
dual-core cpu = single socket
dual-gpu graphics adapter = single slot

Except its not that simple. The GX2 takes up more than just one slot, the one its plugged into, and another.

by your analogy its the same as 1900xtx since 1900xtx takes up 2 slots as well..?

So you pick one thing out, and thats all you consider? Dont try to cherry pick one point, and leave out all the rest to suit you. He was saying a dual core CPU is the same as this, when in my points I made, they are very different when you look at them. What about the two PCB's, two GPU's, two fans, two sets of memory (that only give you one set, same as SLI).

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Its the OS that need this "scheduling" to improve performance

:roll:
Well okay, in that case if the hardware has nothing to do with it why doesn't the OS need such scheduling when a single card is loaded?

because in order for each GPU need to process different instructions, os needs to send "different" data to each GPU. OS controls what is being send, not hardware. all hardware does is input, process, and output regardless of software states.

You're overlooking something that is very important in your basic trinity of 3D visual stimulation. If the hardware it self cannot process the data that is being sent to it, the output isn't going to be effective and therefore useless. Just because it has the ability to fumble around with incorrect data and output a bunch of misplaced static lines on your monitor doesn't mean that something is working correctly at all.

 

[eastvillager]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: eastvillager
dual-core cpu = single socket
dual-gpu graphics adapter = single slot

Except its not that simple. The GX2 takes up more than just one slot, the one its plugged into, and another.

That depends on the motherboard. It doesn't use the slot, though it may block the slot.

CPU heatsinks can block ram slots, do you say that they take up a ram slot? No, you don't.

Artic Silencers block a slot too, but they don't make your card a two-card solution.

Funny thing about this argument is it is pointless. Most of the 2-slot arguers are fanATIcs and most of the single slot arguers are nvidiats.

All because the ATI people want to believe the x1900xtx is still the fastest 'part' when it quite obviously isn't.

Even funnier is that, based upon your argument, that the card blocks the second slot, the x1900xtx is a 2 slot card as well.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: beggerking
do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

Here is what I think about your dual-core cpu as a single cpu:

From a hardware standpoint (physically) it is one cpu.
If the software sees it as two cpu's, and successfully gains performance from seeing that and utilizing two cpu's, then from a software standpoint (non-physically) it is two cpu's.

actually, I tend to see hardware seperately from software. If a hardware uses 1 pci-e slot, its 1 hardware peripheral.

GPU != card

This is interesting. I've never seen a benchmark that is comparing nothing but the solder points on the pcb's between Nvidia and ATI. What do benchmarks compare when new "cards" come out? They compare the GPU's themselves, which are structured onto the "card" with the corresponding memeory controllers routed to it, and the performance increases that can be gained from different GPU structuring. The 7950's GPU doesn't differ in structure at all compared to any other 79series. The only thing that is different is the number of "cards" and the SLI interface that has to exist between them.

so when amd x2 and pentium D came out, they compared 1 single core from X2 vs 1 single core from Pentium D?

Another interesting point beggerking is why when the 7950GX2 first came out. Why was it then useless to have two 7950GX2's? Why was it useless to try and do Quad-SLI with them? I suspect the new 91.31's are the drivers a user will need to run Quad-SLI, but why?

driver support is not complete. SLI "software" issue.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Its the OS that need this "scheduling" to improve performance

:roll:
Well okay, in that case if the hardware has nothing to do with it why doesn't the OS need such scheduling when a single card is loaded?

because in order for each GPU need to process different instructions, os needs to send "different" data to each GPU. OS controls what is being send, not hardware. all hardware does is input, process, and output regardless of software states.

You're overlooking something that is very important in your basic trinity of 3D visual stimulation. If the hardware it self cannot process the data that is being sent to it, the output isn't going to be effective and therefore useless. Just because it has the ability to fumble around with incorrect data and output a bunch of misplaced static lines on your monitor doesn't mean that something is working correctly at all.

what you just said is COMPLETELY IRRELEVENT to my comment above... I was talking about load balancing/ data distribution...

also, garbage data almost never output "a bunch of misplaced static lines on your monitor ".

 

[redbox]

It's been fun guys but I can't keep posting in this thread. You all have fun arguing your opinions. There comes a time when one just can't keep beating a dead horse. See ya.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: beggerking
do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

Here is what I think about your dual-core cpu as a single cpu:

From a hardware standpoint (physically) it is one cpu.
If the software sees it as two cpu's, and successfully gains performance from seeing that and utilizing two cpu's, then from a software standpoint (non-physically) it is two cpu's.

actually, I tend to see hardware seperately from software.

That's why I seperated my answer into two categories, hardware and sofware.

If a hardware uses 1 pci-e slot, its 1 hardware peripheral.

I agree. The 7950GX2 is one peice of hardware not one peice when software sees it.

me:
Another interesting point beggerking is why when the 7950GX2 first came out. Why was it then useless to have two 7950GX2's? Why was it useless to try and do Quad-SLI with them? I suspect the new 91.31's are the drivers a user will need to run Quad-SLI, but why?

beggerking:
driver support is not complete. SLI "software" issue.

A software issue that makes hardware useless. Stop dodging the issue, incomplete software or software issues negatively affect a hardwares performance beggerking. Why are you arguing this simple fact so much? Nevermind, BFG10K proved your agenda very clearly.

 

[skooma]

Wow, 3 weeks and some 479 replies and you guys are still going at it

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: josh6079
Another interesting point beggerking is why when the 7950GX2 first came out. Why was it then useless to have two 7950GX2's? Why was it useless to try and do Quad-SLI with them? I suspect the new 91.31's are the drivers a user will need to run Quad-SLI, but why?

beggerking:
driver support is not complete. SLI "software" issue.

A software issue that makes hardware useless. Stop dodging the issue, incomplete software or software issues negatively affect a hardwares performance beggerking. Why are you arguing this simple fact so much? Nevermind, BFG10K proved your agenda very clearly.

so as soon as they fix the issue of quad-SLI, you'll start seeing 7950 as a single card??
your reasoning don't make sense...

a software issue is a software issue.. all videocard have them..what are you trying to prove here?

BFG didn't prove anything..

Here is my agenda:
I believe 7950 should be compared to 1900 as dualcore cpu is compared to single core cpus.

 

[josh6079]

You said,

Originally posted by: beggerking
BFG didn't prove anything..

when he said this,

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Beggerking is trying to claim the 7950 is a single card solution just so he can then compare it to a X1900 and pronounce "victory".

Then you agree with him by saying,

Originally posted by: beggerking
I believe 7950 should be compared to 1900

Care to flip-flop anymore?

so as soon as they fix the issue of quad-SLI, you'll start seeing 7950 as a single card??

Where did I say that? I was referring to your indestructable hardware that can function perfectly with or without software.

a software issue is a software issue.. all videocard have them..what are you trying to prove here?

That because of those software issues, the hardware can be impacted in a negative way (i.e becoming useless in executing its intended usage) The 7950GX2 was made for gaming, and without software, gaming with it is useless, which is something you seem to want to argue.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079
You said,

Originally posted by: beggerking
BFG didn't prove anything..

when he said this,

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Beggerking is trying to claim the 7950 is a single card solution just so he can then compare it to a X1900 and pronounce "victory".

Then you agree with him by saying,

Originally posted by: beggerking
I believe 7950 should be compared to 1900

Care to flip-flop anymore?

my agenda is for comparison sake, not to claim "victory". 7950 being faster than 1900 was well-known and proved by ALL REVIEW SITES, while 1900 does have better IQ. It'd be pointless to try to prove it again or claim victory on it.

so as soon as they fix the issue of quad-SLI, you'll start seeing 7950 as a single card??

Where did I say that? I was referring to your indestructable hardware that can function perfectly with or without software.

a software issue is a software issue.. all videocard have them..what are you trying to prove here?

That because of those software issues, the hardware can be impacted in a negative way (i.e becoming useless in executing its intended usage) The 7950GX2 was made for gaming, and without software, gaming with it is useless, which is something you seem to want to argue.

it is the Operating System that can be impacted in a negative way. hardware still works as is. Please make a distinction between hardware and software..