So, does the 7950GX2 count as a single card solution?

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: RichUK
Beggerking: I really don?t see how you can correlate an SLI setup to a dual core

2 CPU core on 1 socket = dualcore

2 GPU on 1 card/PCI-e slot = 7950gx2

Dual core, means two processing cores on one single die, on one single pin/lan/ball grid array etc. So there is no correlation between Dual core and SLI.

but within the core, there is a connection between the cores with a shared data lane.
which is analogous to 7950, a bridge between the 2 gpus with a shared data lane.

Hmm i suppose. On AMD dual cores, the processing cores individually communicate through the SRQ (System Request Queue) and are connected via the crossbar which links the cores to the on die memory controllers. The Cross Bar is the single point where they can communicate, and this is at a a hardware level

Again this example is on a single die on a single package.

However I thought each card on the GX2 basically had 8 PCIe lanes reserved to communicate on. Basically half of the x16 physical PCIe lanes each on one of the PCIe x16 slot?s, and were both controlled at a single point which would be the driver.

I?m pretty sure the two graphics chips cannot communicate with each other, as any cross reference would be done at the driver software level. Therefore I don?t believe any correlation to a dual core can be made.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Hmm i suppose. On AMD dual cores, the processing cores individually communicate through the SRQ (System Request Queue) and are connected via the crossbar which links the cores to the on die memory controllers. The Cross Bar is the single point where they can communicate, and this is at a a hardware level

Again this example is on a single die on a single package.

However I thought each card on the GX2 basically had 8 PCIe lanes reserved to communicate on. Basically half of the x16 physical PCIe lanes each on one of the PCIe x16 slot?s, and were both controlled at a single point which would be the driver.

I?m pretty sure the two graphics chips cannot communicate with each other, as any cross reference would be done at the driver software level. Therefore I don?t believe any correlation to a dual core can be made.

see the picturehere
"The PCI-Express switch between the two PCBs uses a slightly different connection on GeForce 7950 GX2. GeForce 7900 GX2 used a pair of connectors to send data between the two GPUs, now there is only a single connection in between the boards. This is the same size as the larger of the two connectors on NVIDIA's previous dual-GPU video card implementation"

 

[redbox]

OK. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. I think we all have just lost what we where talking about in the first place. Lets slow it down a sec and try and explain it a little clearer. BFG10K said: In regards to hardware it is one card, when in regards to software it is two. I deem that to be a simple statement to follow. You say in regards to BFG10K statement :
posted by Beggerking:
"My point is , it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware, the hardware's physical property determine what it is."
You are right that hardware's physical properties determin what it is.....when talking about hardware. You are wrong in feeling that no matter how the software relates to the hardware it doesn't matter. You are right that software could care less that your card is working in safe mode or in a game. You are right that hardware technically works when powered on. But you are failing to see that all that doesn't matter when we talk about the user. I DO care if my card is working without the software that utilizes all of the features that the hardware will let me. I DO care if the SLI software doesn't allow me to use the whole screen on my dual monitor setup. I DO care that I have to use the SLI drivers to make this video card function correctly. These are properties of this particular card that I don't have to deal with when picking any other single card in existence, And all of those problems are software bound. So when we say this card acts like two cards in regards to the software it uses how can that statement be false? Especialy when talking about how the user relates to the computer. So I take your statement again: it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware while it doesn't matter to the software how it sees the hardware. It sure as heck matters to me, as that is the whole aim of a faster video card: to please the user.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Originally posted by: beggerking
Basically a SLI setup on a single card, AKA dualcore.

SLI is a dual card feature. Why does this single card have it?

CPU scheduling is also a multi-CPU feature, why does dualcore have it?

7950 doesn't need SLI to work. the OS is the one that needs SLI to improve performance.

Yes, the 7950 can physically still get electricity to it without having a driver installed (it will still turn on). That was never the debate, unless you think Nvidia made the GX2 with the sole intention to power on a card in safe mode. The point is, why do you have to have those SLI profiles activated to get that performance increase whereas a single card doesn't have to do anything but install a driver? If it is a single card "anyway you spin it", there should be no dependency on SLI.

SLI works the same as how multi-CPU systems work. If you don't control the flow of data, both CPU/GPU will be processing the same data, which will not yield performance increase. do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

because there are >1 GPU involved. Each GPU does part of the work.

I agree, but that doesn't answer the question. If the 7950GX2 is truly a single card, it wouldn't be able to do SLI AA.

SLI AA is just data combining between 2 GPUs. if you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu, dualGPU should also be a single card.

bolded part indicates you don't truly understand what SLI software does; its data scheduling.
SLI mode means each GPU render half of the screen

And? I know that SLI distributes the data to both GPU's. You are not necessarily correct in that one GPU does one half of the screen while the other GPU does the other half. If you want, SLI can do AFR, AFR2, and SLIAA. The option you mentioned is known as split-screen rendering and is just one of the possible scenarios. The question here remains unanswered as well since split-screen rendering has nothing to do with how a desktop is kept from being displayed on two monitors when using SLI.[/quote]
if you really want to know, its "kept from being displayed" by software. its a software issue.

you need to learn to write a program. many source that can help are available online. Google for it.

LOL! You still deem it possible!! You even admitted yourself that even with an emulator the "A64 doesn't have the ability to put aside stalled instructions" and therefor cannot do HT.

but software can still be emulated to "see" 2 cpus. you will not get performance improvement because A64 doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions.

well, your videocard will still "post" correctly. doesn't it? that means your videocard(physically) will still work.

It will post, but not play games, nor run shaders, nor AF/AA, etc which was what the question was. Without the drivers, the hardware is disfunctional (meaning, it isn't doing what Nvidia desinged it to do with games). Yes, it can still turn on and feed electricity through itself correctly, but that's about it.

let me repost this part:
"3D games, enable SLI, run shaders and/or run AF + AA" are all software aka data, which is send to the videocard to be output to monitor.
it is software that would be disfunctional, not hardware.

"3D games, enable SLI, run shaders and/or run AF + AA" are all software aka data, which is send to the videocard to be output to monitor.

Correct, however that isn't the same type of "data" as a normal VGA driver can impose. It is a bit more complex and requires special instructions from within the software itself to be executed properly to the correct, corresponding hardware.

[/quote]

it is software that would be disfunctional, not hardware.
also, all data are the same, the only difference is protocol used.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: beggerking
2 GPU on 1 card/PCI-e slot = 7950gx2

Two PCI-E slots.

/game

/set

/match

/thread

 

[redbox]

All quotes from Beggerking:

if you really want to know, its "kept from being displayed" by software. its a software issue.

Thank you for coming to the light. This software issue is why we consider it a dual card when talking about software.

you will not get performance improvement because A64 doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions

Because I don't get a performance improvement I wouldn't want to emulate anything. If software was truely able to work indepedently on hardware it wouldn't matter that A64 hardware wouldn't be able to set aside stall instructions. This is what we have been trying to get you to see. Software is bound by hardware just as hardware is bound by software.

it is software that would be disfunctional, not hardware.

Again. This is what we have been saying. We need a special software (SLI profiles) in order for this card to do what it's hardware was designed to do.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: coldpower27

Originally posted by: RichUK
Beggerking: I really don?t see how you can correlate an SLI setup to a dual core

I guess you can correalte in this manner.

In comparison to Presler the SLI technology is analagous to the Arbiter Control Logic which allows the 2 cores to work together.

Touché, its true as the Presler and Smithfield processors were just two presscot/cedermill processors on one socket. But this would be one single package i.e. one socket rather than two.

I suppose different peoples definitions could be argued till the cows come home.

It would vary on the definition, Presler is 2 cores on a single socket aka LGA775, while 7950GX2 is 2 cores on a single "socket" aka PCI-Express x 16.

I would agree we can argue on the definition for forever.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox
All quotes from Beggerking:

if you really want to know, its "kept from being displayed" by software. its a software issue.

Thank you for coming to the light. This software issue is why we consider it a dual card when talking about software.

so this software issue magically rearrage the graphic card into a dual card?.... ok...

you will not get performance improvement because A64 doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions

Because I don't get a performance improvement I wouldn't want to emulate anything. If software was truely able to work indepedently on hardware it wouldn't matter that A64 hardware wouldn't be able to set aside stall instructions. This is what we have been trying to get you to see. Software is bound by hardware just as hardware is bound by software.

how can you say software is bounded by hardware when software can be fooled to "see" a 2nd CPU in a HT system where there is only 1 physical CPU in the system?

it is software that would be disfunctional, not hardware.

Again. This is what we have been saying. We need a special software (SLI profiles) in order for this card to do what it's hardware was designed to do.

[/quote]

hardware was designed to process incoming data and then output.
whether the "right" data (SLI software) , or the "wrong" data (SLI software disabled) are fed into it does not change the fact the hardware is working as it was designed to work.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: redbox
All quotes from Beggerking:

if you really want to know, its "kept from being displayed" by software. its a software issue.

Thank you for coming to the light. This software issue is why we consider it a dual card when talking about software.

so this software issue magically rearrage the graphic card into a dual card?.... ok...

you will not get performance improvement because A64 doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions

Because I don't get a performance improvement I wouldn't want to emulate anything. If software was truely able to work indepedently on hardware it wouldn't matter that A64 hardware wouldn't be able to set aside stall instructions. This is what we have been trying to get you to see. Software is bound by hardware just as hardware is bound by software.

how can you say software is bounded by hardware when software can be fooled to "see" a 2nd CPU in a HT system where there is only 1 physical CPU in the system?

it is software that would be disfunctional, not hardware.

Again. This is what we have been saying. We need a special software (SLI profiles) in order for this card to do what it's hardware was designed to do.

hardware was designed to process incoming data and then output.
whether the "right" data (SLI software) , or the "wrong" data (SLI software disabled) are fed into it does not change the fact the hardware is working as it was designed to work.[/quote]

1. No the software issue didn't rearrage the graphic card into a dual card it makes it work the same way a dual card works and therefor the end user gets the same software experience they would get if they had two cards. If this is a software issue why can't the software be fooled into thinking it can output video to two monitors?

2. I can say software is bounded by hardware because in a cpu not made for HT even if you fool it into thinking there are two processors there if the cpu doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions you aren't getting the benifit of HT and therefore it is a moot point. If you could make your os see 100,000 cpu's but still provide the level of performance of just one cpu then it isn't working as the software was designed to.

3. A simple explaination of hardware would be to process incoming data and then output that data, but we are talking a little bit more specific. The 7950GX2 wasn't designed to run correctly without the SLI software, so running it without them would be the "wrong" way. The 7950GX2 was designed to be a beast of a card and you can't do that running the card without a Bios upgrade and the SLI software. So when we talk about this card needing the same software that two cards in SLI would need we are not wrong, and it is this fact that keeps us saying that when we talk about software this card acts like two.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox

1. No the software issue didn't rearrage the graphic card into a dual card it makes it work the same way a dual card works and therefor the end user gets the same software experience they would get if they had two cards. If this is a software issue why can't the software be fooled into thinking it can output video to two monitors?

thats why they call it a software issue which does not change the design nor the purpose of the hardware.

2. I can say software is bounded by hardware because in a cpu not made for HT even if you fool it into thinking there are two processors there if the cpu doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions you aren't getting the benifit of HT and therefore it is a moot point. If you could make your os see 100,000 cpu's but still provide the level of performance of just one cpu then it isn't working as the software was designed to.

bolded above, it depends on the intention of the developer. If the developer created a software to make your os see 100000 cpus just for the fun of it, then the software would be "working as it was designed to do".

3. A simple explaination of hardware would be to process incoming data and then output that data, but we are talking a little bit more specific. The 7950GX2 wasn't designed to run correctly without the SLI software, so running it without them would be the "wrong" way. The 7950GX2 was designed to be a beast of a card and you can't do that running the card without a Bios upgrade and the SLI software. So when we talk about this card needing the same software that two cards in SLI would need we are not wrong, and it is this fact that keeps us saying that when we talk about software this card acts like two.

[/quote]

that is the only explaination of the graphic hardware.

everything else you talked about are software related.

do you consider dualcore a single cpu or not?

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: redbox

1. No the software issue didn't rearrage the graphic card into a dual card it makes it work the same way a dual card works and therefor the end user gets the same software experience they would get if they had two cards. If this is a software issue why can't the software be fooled into thinking it can output video to two monitors?

thats why they call it a software issue which does not change the design nor the purpose of the hardware.

2. I can say software is bounded by hardware because in a cpu not made for HT even if you fool it into thinking there are two processors there if the cpu doesn't support the ability to set aside stall instructions you aren't getting the benifit of HT and therefore it is a moot point. If you could make your os see 100,000 cpu's but still provide the level of performance of just one cpu then it isn't working as the software was designed to.

bolded above, it depends on the intention of the developer. If the developer created a software to make your os see 100000 cpus just for the fun of it, then the software would be "working as it was designed to do".

3. A simple explaination of hardware would be to process incoming data and then output that data, but we are talking a little bit more specific. The 7950GX2 wasn't designed to run correctly without the SLI software, so running it without them would be the "wrong" way. The 7950GX2 was designed to be a beast of a card and you can't do that running the card without a Bios upgrade and the SLI software. So when we talk about this card needing the same software that two cards in SLI would need we are not wrong, and it is this fact that keeps us saying that when we talk about software this card acts like two.

that is the only explaination of the graphic hardware.

everything else you talked about are software related.

do you consider dualcore a single cpu or not?[/quote]

1. If it is a software issue they have had plenty of time to fix it. Yes it does change the design/purpose of the hardware. The purpose of a video card in my case would be to transmit video to two monitors which this "single card' can't do.

2. Do you know of any developer that would waste time and money to create something as retarded as that? Developers would only mess with something that a) increase speed b) increased IQ c)make it work.

3. Everything else I talked about is software realated, which is why when talking about software this acts like two cards! I never said that When talking about Hardware the 7950GX2 is a dual card.

You buy one; you can't buy two. You put one in your rig. You power on one card. That is all hardware.

You need to update the motherboards bios. You need to install the SLI profiles. You can't output to two monitors. You can run SLIAA. All of that is software. Do you see the difference now?!?!

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox

1. If it is a software issue they have had plenty of time to fix it. Yes it does change the design/purpose of the hardware. The purpose of a video card in my case would be to transmit video to two monitors which this "single card' can't do.

most cards prior to 6800 cannot dual output..therefore the bolded statement does not determine whether its a "single card" or not.

2. Do you know of any developer that would waste time and money to create something as retarded as that? Developers would only mess with something that a) increase speed b) increased IQ c)make it work.

but the program would be "working as intended", correct?
also, most project done in school are in that category.. for educational purpose.

3. Everything else I talked about is software realated, which is why when talking about software this acts like two cards! I never said that When talking about Hardware the 7950GX2 is a dual card.

then why would you consider 7950gx2 (which is a hardware) not a single card? ... I'm confused.. whats your take? is it single or not?

You need to update the motherboards bios. You need to install the SLI profiles. You can't output to two monitors. You can run SLIAA. All of that is software. Do you see the difference now?!?!

software differences does not imply 7950gx2( which is a physical hardware) not a single card..

its the same difference between single core CPU and a dualcore CPU, do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: RichUK

Hmm i suppose. On AMD dual cores, the processing cores individually communicate through the SRQ (System Request Queue) and are connected via the crossbar which links the cores to the on die memory controllers. The Cross Bar is the single point where they can communicate, and this is at a a hardware level

Again this example is on a single die on a single package.

However I thought each card on the GX2 basically had 8 PCIe lanes reserved to communicate on. Basically half of the x16 physical PCIe lanes each on one of the PCIe x16 slot?s, and were both controlled at a single point which would be the driver.

I?m pretty sure the two graphics chips cannot communicate with each other, as any cross reference would be done at the driver software level. Therefore I don?t believe any correlation to a dual core can be made.

see the picturehere
"The PCI-Express switch between the two PCBs uses a slightly different connection on GeForce 7950 GX2. GeForce 7900 GX2 used a pair of connectors to send data between the two GPUs, now there is only a single connection in between the boards. This is the same size as the larger of the two connectors on NVIDIA's previous dual-GPU video card implementation"

Hmm going by that, it just quantifies that the GX2 is indeed two separate cards bodged to work on one slot, with the SLI bridge in a different physical position, and the only purpose of the PCI-e switch is to configure the PCI-e lanes equally for each card.

So basically this is an SLI setup, forced to use two x8 PCI-e pin outs on one physical x16 slot, which is managed via the PCI-e switch.

This is an SLI setup plain and simple.

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: RichUK

Hmm going by that, it just quantifies that the GX2 is indeed two separate cards bodged to work on one slot, with the SLI bridge in a different physical position, and the only purpose of the PCI-e switch is to configure the PCI-e lanes equally for each card.

PCI-e switch is also used for data exchange between 2 GPUs.
2 PCBs, single slot card.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: redbox

most cards prior to 6800 cannot dual output..therefore the bolded statement does not determine whether its a "single card" or not.

The 9800pro did and that was before the 6800. Even so all of the 7 series can when not in SLI only when in SLI does that feature no longer work for the 7 series so ya this acts like a dual card in that regard.

but the program would be "working as intended", correct?
also, most project done in school are in that category.. for educational purpose.

If they are done for educational purpose then yes, but most users don't use software written just for educational purposes. They use software that is usefull. Programing an OS to try to use 100000 cpu's isn't usefull unless the hardware is there.

then why would you consider 7950gx2 (which is a hardware) not a single card? ... I'm confused.. whats your take? is it single or not?

Yes the 7950GX2 is hardware and when I put it into my machine my relation to it as hardware ends. I am then using the software that goes through it, and that makes it act like a dual card setup. So I don't consider it single or dual but BOTH! Just like Josh and BFG10K we said it is both. Hardware when we touch it, buy it, install it. Software when we use it.

software differences does not imply 7950gx2( which is a physical hardware) not a single card..

I will agree that software doesn't change this card into two cards, but it does change the experince for the user. It changes it to that of a dual card system with it's same limitations and perks.

its the same difference between single core CPU and a dualcore CPU, do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

Ok here we go with what I think about dual core CPU multi CPU and multi GPU: I think that a true dualcore anything would act just like a single core but have another core added to it. This means that a single core would have to be able to read/write to the available memory and not just a part of it. This means a universal amount of cache. If you conside the 7950GX2 a dual core(a analogy that isn't completly true) then it would be closer to the

Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition

Quote from above link:

Both the Pentium D and Pentium Extreme Edition are nothing more than two 90nm Prescott 1M dies glued together. That means that each core has its own 1MB L2 cache, and that also means that architecturally, these chips are no different than the single core Pentium 4s that are out today - other than the obvious dual core fact.

However this is not the best way to implement dual core as Intel will admit: Intel and AMD dualcore

Quote from above link:

Even Intel will admit that the architecture of the Pentium D is not the most desirable as is two Pentium 4 cores literally glued together. The two cores can barely be managed independently from a power consumption standpoint (they still share the same voltage and must run in the same power state) and all communication between cores must go over the external FSB

...and

Any communication between the two cores has to be done over the external FSB, and obviously, core-to-core communication over an external bus is slow. It particularly doesn't make sense, since the two cores are on the same die.

AMD's implement of dual core is a bit better and a set in the right direction as the communication between cpu's never leave the core itself.
Quote from the Intel and AMD dualcore link above:

AMD's architecture is much more sophisticated, thanks to the K8 architecture's on-die North Bridge... Instead of having all communication between the cores go over an external FSB, each core will put its request on the System Request Queue (SRQ) and when resources are available, the request will be sent to the appropriate execution core - all without leaving the confines of the CPU's die

This is very good but AMD still has that cache problem with dedicated cache for each processor. Intel has stepped up and created a real nice IMO real dual core in the form of Conroe or it's market name Core 2 Duo: Core 2 Duo memory Caching

Quote from above link:

The cache system of the Core CPU is also very impressive. A massive 4 MB L2-cache is shared between the two cores and is accessed in only 12 to 14 cycles

So in summery: Do I consider a dualcore cpu as a single cpu... the answer is not a simple yes or no like you no doubt want from me. There are things to consider: what is the cache system like? how do the cpu's talk to each other? is it on one die? At any rate the 7950GX2 is far from being dualcore. For one it doesn't have two gpu's on one core, it doesn't even have them on one pcb for crying out loud. The memory isn't even on the same pcb.

Hope this helps.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

PCI-e switch is also used for data exchange between 2 GPUs.
2 PCBs, single slot card.[/quote]

7950GX2=single slot card?

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox
The 9800pro did and that was before the 6800. Even so all of the 7 series can when not in SLI only when in SLI does that feature no longer work for the 7 series so ya this acts like a dual card in that regard.

but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards??

but the program would be "working as intended", correct?
also, most project done in school are in that category.. for educational purpose.

If they are done for educational purpose then yes, but most users don't use software written just for educational purposes. They use software that is usefull. Programing an OS to try to use 100000 cpu's isn't usefull unless the hardware is there.

the point is, the program will work as intended. Do you agree then, such a program proves software can be fooled and is not bounded by hardware? since software can be fooled , hardware cannot be fooled.

then why would you consider 7950gx2 (which is a hardware) not a single card? ... I'm confused.. whats your take? is it single or not?

Yes the 7950GX2 is hardware and when I put it into my machine my relation to it as hardware ends. I am then using the software that goes through it, and that makes it act like a dual card setup. So I don't consider it single or dual but BOTH! Just like Josh and BFG10K we said it is both. Hardware when we touch it, buy it, install it. Software when we use it.

okay, since we agreed on its being a single card("both" includes single), it is then fair to compare 7950gx2 to a 1900xtx.

its the same difference between single core CPU and a dualcore CPU, do you consider dualcore cpu as a single cpu?

So in summery: Do I consider a dualcore cpu as a single cpu... the answer is not a simple yes or no like you no doubt want from me. There are things to consider: what is the cache system like? how do the cpu's talk to each other? is it on one die? At any rate the 7950GX2 is far from being dualcore. For one it doesn't have two gpu's on one core, it doesn't even have them on one pcb for crying out loud. The memory isn't even on the same pcb.

Hope this helps.

let me make it easier for you.. do you consider dualcore cpu as single socket cpu?

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox

Originally posted by: beggerking

PCI-e switch is also used for data exchange between 2 GPUs.
2 PCBs, single slot card.

7950GX2=single slot card? [/quote]

7950GX2=single 16x PCI-e bused card?

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards??

You can't compare the videocards prior to the 6800 in the first place. The 7 series has as it's feature set many things, AA, AF ,supersampling AA, HDR. Those are things previous cards didn't have or at least most of them. The fact that anyother single 7 series card can do multi monitor but this one can't shows that this isn't simply a single card. The software required for it to run correctly makes it run like a two card system which was the point I was trying to make. The reason the other cards prior couldn't do it is because that generation of cards didn't have the architecture to do so. The 7 series does have that it's just the SLI software that disables it in all the SLI setups and this 7950GX2

the point is, the program will work as intended. Do you agree then, such a program proves software can be fooled and is not bounded by hardware? since software can be fooled , hardware cannot be fooled.

Yes software can be fooled but it is still bounded by hardware. Your comment about writing a useless program to use 1000000 cpu's just to prove that software can be fooled it like pushing against a wall. Your still pushing, but not getting anywhere. Ya your still running the program but not getting anywhere, because your bound by the hardware.

okay, since we agreed on its being a single card("both" includes single), it is then fair to compare 7950gx2 to a 1900xtx.

I never said it wasn't fair to compare them. They are both the highest end that either side has and both are kick ass cards. I was just trying to get through to you that this card acts exaclty like an SLI system and therefore In my book is basicaly an SLI system in a box.

let me make it easier for you.. do you consider dualcore cpu as single socket cpu?

I consider what the industry is calling a dualcore cpu to be a single die cpu. I do think I answered my self pretty extensivly though in the text, don't know why you had to ask again.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: beggerking

Originally posted by: redbox

Originally posted by: beggerking

PCI-e switch is also used for data exchange between 2 GPUs.
2 PCBs, single slot card.

7950GX2=single slot card?

7950GX2=single 16x PCI-e bused card?[/quote]

Ok that makes a bit more sense.

 

[Rangoric]

Originally posted by: beggerking
but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards??

Bull. When the Gforce3 came out years ago, Dual Monitors was starting to be supported. It wasn't common and it wasn't standard (I.E. you had to buy a card that was "setup" for it). However, NVidia's cards could do it.

Here is a little page about the Gforce4

 

[BFG10K]

BFG:"driver path"
BFG:"pipeline section"

both are non-existant terms.

Utter rubbish.

did you mean to say "pipeline stages" and admit you were wrong? or did you mean something else with "pipeline section"?

It's much more than just pipeline stages but because you have no clue as to how HT actually works you don't understand the significance of me using the term "sections". Not only do you not understand but you try to make yourself look clever by linking to Wikipedia.

And did you admit you were wrong when you told us 8xAA SLI AA is "8xAA on each half of the screen"?

Or how about when you told us AA and AF were "data sent to the video card"?

Or how about [insert any of your other delusional ramblings]?

It's quite sad how you play semantic games over terms but refuse to retract your outright clueless misinformation that you constantly post.

7950 doesn't need SLI to work.

Yes it does.

the OS is the one that needs SLI to improve performance.

With a VGA driver the card won't run any 3D games so in otherwords the hardware will behave exactly like a 2D-only VGA card, proving that software has very much to do with the hardware unlike your delusional claims that it doesn't.

answer me this : do you consider dualcore CPU as I single CPU?

Nope.

because there are >1 GPU involved. Each GPU does part of the work.

So in otherwords you admit it's not a single card then?

bolded part indicates you don't truly understand what SLI software does; its data scheduling.

Data scheduling which isn't needed for single cards so by your a own admission the 7950 isn't a single card.

"Hardware has nothing to do with software", so why does a 7950 need this "scheduling" while a single card doesn't?

you need to learn to write a program. many source that can help are available online. Google for it.

Thay's not an answer. Answer the question: how do I get HT running on a A64?

well, your videocard will still "post" correctly. doesn't it? that means your videocard(physically) will still work.

And? My NIC posts without a driver too. Does that make it equal to a video card?

"3D games, enable SLI, run shaders and/or run AF + AA" are all software aka data, which is send to the videocard to be output to monitor.

This is utter rubbish and proves yet again you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

AF and AA are not "data sent to the video card", it is data generated by the driver through the video card hardware.

Furthemore the types of AA and AF you can generate is determined both by the hardware and the driver.

it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware, the hardware's physical property determine what it is.

The physical properties are meaningless without drivers; furthermore the physical hardware properties determine what driver you load.

If the "hardware has nothing to do with the software" why can't I load a NIC driver onto my video card?

Your argument is beyond simpleton and it's simply comical how one so clueless can pretend to be so smart.

so this software issue magically rearrage the graphic card into a dual card?....

No, the fact that it's dual card means it requires SLI software because the hardware determines the type of driver that runs on it.

but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards?

But 7950 doesn't support multiple monitors under SLI so you would consider this mode dual card then?

okay, since we agreed on its being a single card("both" includes single), it is then fair to compare 7950gx2 to a 1900xtx.

Section Edited Due To Mod Request

And there it is Ladies and Gentlemen, the whole reason why the steaming pile of posts exists.

Beggerking is trying to claim the 7950 is a single card solution just so he can then compare it to a X1900 and pronounce "victory".

End Edit

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: Rangoric

Originally posted by: beggerking
but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards??

Bull. When the Gforce3 came out years ago, Dual Monitors was starting to be supported. It wasn't common and it wasn't standard (I.E. you had to buy a card that was "setup" for it). However, NVidia's cards could do it.

Here is a little page about the Gforce4

Actually it was back in the days of Matrox when it first came out, but it wasn't popular until GF5/GF6.
I said *most* cards prior to 6800 didn't have dual monitor support. Research before you reply. most Gf1,2,3,4,..voodoo,S3, matrox cards didn't have dual monitor support.

 

[josh6079]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

BFG:"driver path"
BFG:"pipeline section"

both are non-existant terms.

Utter rubbish.

did you mean to say "pipeline stages" and admit you were wrong? or did you mean something else with "pipeline section"?

It's much more than just pipeline stages but because you have no clue as to how HT actually works you don't understand the significance of me using the term "sections". Not only do you not understand but you try to make yourself look clever by linking to Wikipedia.

And did you admit you were wrong when you told us 8xAA SLI AA is "8xAA on each half of the screen"?

Or how about when you told us AA and AF were "data sent to the video card"?

Or how about [insert any of your other delusional ramblings]?

It's quite sad how you play semantic games over terms but refuse to retract your outright clueless misinformation that you constantly post.

7950 doesn't need SLI to work.

Yes it does.

the OS is the one that needs SLI to improve performance.

With a VGA driver the card won't run any 3D games so in otherwords the hardware will behave exactly like a 2D-only VGA card, proving that software has very much to do with the hardware unlike your delusional claims that it doesn't.

answer me this : do you consider dualcore CPU as I single CPU?

Nope.

because there are >1 GPU involved. Each GPU does part of the work.

So in otherwords you admit it's not a single card then?

bolded part indicates you don't truly understand what SLI software does; its data scheduling.

Data scheduling which isn't needed for single cards so by your a own admission the 7950 isn't a single card.

"Hardware has nothing to do with software", so why does a 7950 need this "scheduling" while a single card doesn't?

you need to learn to write a program. many source that can help are available online. Google for it.

Thay's not an answer. Answer the question: how do I get HT running on a A64?

well, your videocard will still "post" correctly. doesn't it? that means your videocard(physically) will still work.

And? My NIC posts without a driver too. Does that make it equal to a video card?

"3D games, enable SLI, run shaders and/or run AF + AA" are all software aka data, which is send to the videocard to be output to monitor.

This is utter rubbish and proves yet again you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

AF and AA are not "data sent to the video card", it is data generated by the driver through the video card hardware.

Furthemore the types of AA and AF you can generate is determined both by the hardware and the driver.

it doesn't matter how software sees the hardware, the hardware's physical property determine what it is.

The physical properties are meaningless without drivers; furthermore the physical hardware properties determine what driver you load.

If the "hardware has nothing to do with the software" why can't I load a NIC driver onto my video card?

Your argument is beyond simpleton and it's simply comical how one so clueless can pretend to be so smart.

so this software issue magically rearrage the graphic card into a dual card?....

No, the fact that it's dual card means it requires SLI software because the hardware determines the type of driver that runs on it.

but *most* videocards prior to 6800 do not support dual output, which according to your logic, you would consider them dual cards?

But 7950 doesn't support multiple monitors under SLI so you would consider this mode dual card then?

okay, since we agreed on its being a single card("both" includes single), it is then fair to compare 7950gx2 to a 1900xtx.

And there it is Ladies and Gentlemen, the whole reason why his steaming pile of posts exist.

This clueless simpleton nVidia troll is trying to claim the 7950 is a single card solution just so he can then compare it to a X1900 and pronounce "victory".

That's why his mental gymnastics, constant flip-flopping and contradictions, semantic nitpicking and rhetorical games exist.

It's been quite a while since I've seen such a clueless troll post so much misinformation while trying to make himself look clever but beggerking has pulled it off, as I had no doubt he would.

What a sad little individual.

QFT!!! :thumbsup::beer:

 

[beggerking]

Originally posted by: redbox
The fact that anyother single 7 series card can do multi monitor but this one can't shows that this isn't simply a single card.

any other single 7 series card can do multi monitor but this one can't would show: this card is structured differently from other single 7 series card.

Yes software can be fooled but it is still bounded by hardware. Your comment about writing a useless program to use 1000000 cpu's just to prove that software can be fooled it like pushing against a wall. Your still pushing, but not getting anywhere. Ya your still running the program but not getting anywhere, because your bound by the hardware.

even though to software there are 1000000 cpus, in reality there is still 1 single cpu. This proves my point that
what software sees does not reflect the actual hardware in the system.
therefore, to say 7950gx2 is a single card because it uses SLI software is incorrect, since software does not reflect hardware.

I consider what the industry is calling a dualcore cpu to be a single die cpu. I do think I answered my self pretty extensivly though in the text, don't know why you had to ask again.

so you consider dualcore cpu to be a single cpu.. .. in a Pentium D, it is basically 2 seperate CPUs connected via a datapath.

This is analogus to 2 GPUs connected via a SLI switch.. also, in all reviews I read so far, 7950gx2 is considered to be a single card solution.