So are Republicans going to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood?

[HTFOff]

Another deflection from your retarded original post that should have been aborted before you hit submit!

Kudos on continuing through with your stupidity!

Aaand back to rage. :awe:

 

[ivwshane]

Aaand back to rage. :awe:

And continued deflection

 

[HTFOff]

And continued deflection

shane's witty side.

 

[First]

Yes, everyone understands you don't need profits for a Lamborghini...

Come on, at least try to make an honest argument. No one serious believes that was said in earnest.

 

[Blackjack200]

Polio and Rubella were a bigger deal than making sure fetal remains get fully incinerated instead of being used for research.

Say What?

Understood, with the provision that government doesn't die and probably neither does PP. Can't have it both ways, either that half bil isn't essential or PP realy is an abortion agency funded by government. Which isn't to say I'm necessarily in favor of defunding it; I'm not. I'd have to see an actual trustworthy study showing that ending that funding will not cause poor women to lose access to necessary services, and since I trust neither side that probably ain't gonna happen. It IS to say let's be honest in our arguments, and insisting that Republicans have to give Democrats what they want or Republicans are shutting down government when the Democrats filibuster isn't an honest arguments. Neither is this absurdity about hostage taking. Argue the issue on its merits.


So you would be fine with, say, substituting a live birth for an abortion if the baby can subsequently be parted out to better benefit vital research?


Polio and Rubella were not really a big deal? WTF dude? There is NO more horrendous disease than polio, which left some number of its victims slowly suffocating to death or living in an iron lung.

Is my sarcasm really that hard to detect?

On a side note, Bush never banned stem cell research. Bush banned federal funding of fetal stem cell research. Personally I have no problem with federal funding of fetal stem cell research; I have a big problem with people being bought and sold.

He actually limited the embryonic stem cell lines that could be researched with federal funds.

But my point was that I'm surprised this fetal organ research didn't also become an issue at that time. Maybe it wasn't really a thing then? This was about 14 years ago...

 

[dank69]

Is my sarcasm really that hard to detect?

...

Nope, their meters are broken.

 

[Zorkorist]

Bush stopped Federal Funding of Embryonic Stem Cell Research.

Everyone was still free to carry on Embryonic Stem Cell Research.

Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, is an abortion house. They exist to perform abortions. They want to sell aborted body pieces.

And the Federal Government pays 60% of their expenses.

-John

 

[MongGrel]

I'll take your response as a way for you to admit your error and realize that your original post was circular in it's reasoning.

It's ok, we all make mistakes, just not everyone can recognize them, acknowledge them, and learn from them.

And you are a perfect example of your theory.

 

[highland145]

Come on, at least try to make an honest argument. No one serious believes that was said in earnest.

No, it was said in jest. But it's clear what she thinks about the value of the subject.

Whatever.

 

[werepossum]

And you are a perfect example of your theory.

I'm going to stand up for Shane and point out that he has never shone any kind of reasoning. Lol

Speaking of the Give-a-Fuck-O-Meter, here we have one side insisting that failure to fund PP is akin to taking the whole nation hostage and the other side insisting that not funding PP is striking some grand blow against abortion instead of inconveniencing some poor women.

 

[highland145]

Maybe PP can fund itself?

 

[feralkid]

Is my sarcasm really that hard to detect?

O.k. gave my meter a tap...much better now.

 

[Zorkorist]

Limit Government, and they'll be able to do whatever they damn well please to make a buck. Did you ever consider that?

I'll take the occasional messed up stuff, versus institutionalized, messed up stuff.

I guess I have to see the fast pace of "make a buck" today, but I only wonder;

About the kids
About the Environment
About Freedom
About Liberty
About The Pursuit of Happiness.

It's coming to an end. As all great civilizations come to an end.

-John

 

[werepossum]

Is my sarcasm really that hard to detect?



He actually limited the embryonic stem cell lines that could be researched with federal funds.

But my point was that I'm surprised this fetal organ research didn't also become an issue at that time. Maybe it wasn't really a thing then? This was about 14 years ago...

No, I'm just sleep deprivation stupid today.

That is a good point, although limiting to those, what, twenty-something lines might as well have ended federal funding. At least according to the outraged scientists.

 

[feralkid]

Planned Parenthood, on the other hand, is an abortion house. They exist to perform abortions. -John

How many times are you going to repeat this lie?


Here, just double down and dig in to this:

http://www.theonion.com/article/planned-parenthood-opens-8-billion-abortionplex-20476

 

[werepossum]

Maybe PP can fund itself?

That is my gut preference, but really all that does is force PP to spin off its abortion business.

 

[Zorkorist]

How many times are you going to repeat this lie?

Educate me as to why they are not.

I admit, I only know what I hear on conservative radio. They are where abortions are performed, and they receive huge government funding.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

And you are a perfect example of your theory.

Oh really? And exactly what mistake or logic error did I make?

 

[Zorkorist]

Who else is gonna ban the fuckometer?

-John

 

[JD50]

Yes, everyone understands you don't need profits for a Lamborghini...

Do you really not understand how a non-profit works?

 

[ivwshane]

I'm going to stand up for Shane and point out that he has never shone any kind of reasoning. Lol

Speaking of the Give-a-Fuck-O-Meter, here we have one side insisting that failure to fund PP is akin to taking the whole nation hostage and the other side insisting that not funding PP is striking some grand blow against abortion instead of inconveniencing some poor women.

Oh look werepossum is arguing against something no one has said! Color me surprised!
Let me help you out since, apparently, reading the title of a thread is even too much for you:

Republicans are thinking of using this falls government funding bill to defund planned parenthood. Republicans have said they won't vote for a bill that funds PP and dems have said they won't vote for a bill that strips it. Hence a possible shutdown. This all over an issue that was put up for a vote in the senate (as a stand alone issue) and failed to get the now standard filibuster proof majority. So no, defunding PP isn't akin to taking the nation hostage, it's the result of what might happen. There is a difference.

 

[Jaskalas]

So I notice you still aren't offering any evidence to support your claim.

My claim? I'm not standing on a position of making one myself, but of referencing others from what I've seen of the videos and heard regarding the public outrage. I had taken the "claim" as a given.

You were persistent enough to get me to check. Seems no one is actually taking the step to support that claim, aside from the video maker. Even Fox News seems skeptical, though supportive, of them.

If the video really is just a one time snippet during a game of gotcha while describing a congressionally approved action then I'm quite surprised people are as upset as they are. It really has been described by others as profit for parts and that action is needed to stop it. That people need to be angry and mad.

The video was more than enough to get me to assume was I heard was true.

If conservatives want to put up an honest vote the bill would make fetal tissue research illegal.

I agree, if that's what this comes down to then Republicans should vote on that. I would be interested in seeing their reactions when it is presented in that context. It's radically different than the other context I've seen.

 

[highland145]

That is my gut preference, but really all that does is force PP to spin off its abortion business.

Which they've already done and are breaking the law so why let them double dip because the govt isn't going to prosecute?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

My claim? I'm not standing on a position of making one myself, but of referencing others from what I've seen of the videos and heard regarding the public outrage. I had taken the "claim" as a given.

You were persistent enough to get me to check. Seems no one is actually taking the step to support that claim, aside from the video maker. Even Fox News seems skeptical, though supportive, of them.

If the video really is just a one time snippet during a game of gotcha while describing a congressionally approved action then I'm quite surprised people are as upset as they are. It really has been described by others as profit for parts and that action is needed to stop it. That people need to be angry and mad.

The video was more than enough to get me to assume was I heard was true.

Well, you were the one talking about Lamborghinis and parts for profit as though it was from a position of informed opinion, not parroting what you have been told. My persistence shouldn't have been necessary if you knew you hadn't actually looked into the information as enough people were telling you it was incorrect.

And this is the entire point of the right wing noise machine. Nothing needs to be factual or accurately presented. Just inflamatory enough that people latch on to it and run. And no matter how many times it ends up being complete bullshit which, lets be honest, is a A LOT, it's still successful.

The Center for Medical Progress is a right wing, anti-abortion group with a clear agenda. By releasing these deceptive videos they have been very successful in furthering their agenda. Everyone on the right is screaming to defund PP for doing what Congress passed as a legal process. The donation of fetal tissue by patients for medical research. The providers are able to receive, generally, $30-$100 for the safe storage and transport of those tissues which they are legally able to request reimbursement for from the facilities receiving the material.

There's a few quotes lifted from the transcripts which the right will not talk about. THey certainly weren't in the edited videos that CMP put out.

"Really their bottom line is, they want to break even. Every penny they save is just pennies they give to another patient. To provide a service the patient wouldn't get,"

"we're not looking to make money from this. Our goal is to keep access available. And if we do something that makes a target, that just removes access for everybody."

"Our goal, like I said, is to give patients the option without impacting our bottom line. The messaging is this should not be seen as a new revenue stream, because that's not what it is."

http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PPFAtranscript072514_final.pdf

But it's already too late. The narrative is set, facts be damned.

 

[CitizenKain]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

"The Daily Signal is the multimedia news organization of The Heritage Foundation."

Typical for someone like you. Are these facilities located where PP places are? Do they provide the same services? Are they staffed with actual educated workers, or are they like the anti-choice clinics that aren't actually staffed with doctors? Or does none of the matter because as a republican, anything that harms poor people and women is worth the effort?