So are Republicans going to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood?

[Fern]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

 

[nickqt]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

No matter how often you keep repeating all of this incorrect information, it continues being incorrect.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[HTFOff]

IF PP or some PP clinics are doing this, they need to be investigated. Unfortunately, under this admin, enforcement of Fed law seems to be arbitrary, depending on which laws the prevailing ideology likes or dislikes...but that is another topic.

It's actually pretty slick.

Direct selling of human tissue and organs for profit is not legal. Which is comical because a fetus is not a human being, right? Why isn't the left pushing for the legal sale of fetus tissue for profit? They obviously don't believe a fetus deserves the same rights and ethical decorum as a real person. So what gives? PP needs that money, or the poor will have to bring rape babies to term. Right? Right.

Anyway.

PP avoids breaking the law by taking the tissue and "donating" it blablabla (To be fair, they are not the only one's who do this, but they definitely are the only one's underwritten by taxpayers to the tune of 542 million greenbacks.) and subsequently charging a fugazi "procurement" fee. The "procurement" fees (which have to be a "reasonable " amount under the law, whatever that means.) are completely legal.

What's hilarious is that under the law there is no definition of what's "reasonable" and PP is not obligated to disclose what they actually charge, nor are they obligated to disclose which locations are "donating" the tissue.

It is intellectually dishonest to claim what PP is doing is kosher. At the very least, in order to continue receiving half a billion dollars from taxpayers, PP should make public the cost of processing, removing and "donating" the fetal tissue, and the subsequent revenue they receive for "donating" said fetal tissue as to prove they are NOT profiting financially. Sorry, if you're getting hundreds of millions of dollars, I'm not going to take your word for it. Open your books and prove it, and make that public.

Imagine if the NRA was receiving millions of taxpayer dollars. Call it a "Firearms Safety and Handling Etiquette Program, For The Kids". Parents can bring their children in and have them taught basic lessons, subsidized by millions in taxpayers dollars. Oh, what's that? The NRA doesn't have to make public how those tax dollars are appropriated? Yeah right. Liberals would pull a fucking testicle, and rightfully so.

I'm not waiting for a smoking gun so PP can be shut down. I honestly don't care what people do with their own flesh and blood, nor do I think (as a conservative) the state can tell a person what to do with their own flesh and blood, within reason. It's long overdue liberals buck up and tidy up their own shit for once.

 

[ivwshane]

It's actually pretty slick.

Direct selling of human tissue and organs for profit is not legal. Which is comical because a fetus is not a human being, right? Why isn't the left pushing for the legal sale of fetus tissue for profit? They obviously don't believe a fetus deserves the same rights and ethical decorum as a real person. So what gives? PP needs that money, or the poor will have to bring rape babies to term. Right? Right.

Anyway.

PP avoids breaking the law by taking the tissue and "donating" it blablabla (To be fair, they are not the only one's who do this, but they definitely are the only one's underwritten by taxpayers to the tune of 542 million greenbacks.) and subsequently charging a fugazi "procurement" fee. The "procurement" fees (which have to be a "reasonable " amount under the law, whatever that means.) are completely legal.

What's hilarious is that under the law there is no definition of what's "reasonable" and PP is not obligated to disclose what they actually charge, nor are they obligated to disclose which locations are "donating" the tissue.

It is intellectually dishonest to claim what PP is doing is kosher. At the very least, in order to continue receiving half a billion dollars from taxpayers, PP should make public the cost of processing, removing and "donating" the fetal tissue, and the subsequent revenue they receive for "donating" said fetal tissue as to prove they are NOT profiting financially. Sorry, if you're getting hundreds of millions of dollars, I'm not going to take your word for it. Open your books and prove it, and make that public.

Imagine if the NRA was receiving millions of taxpayer dollars. Call it a "Firearms Safety and Handling Etiquette Program, For The Kids". Parents can bring their children in and have them taught basic lessons, subsidized by millions in taxpayers dollars. Oh, what's that? The NRA doesn't have to make public how those tax dollars are appropriated? Yeah right. Liberals would pull a fucking testicle, and rightfully so.

I'm not waiting for a smoking gun so PP can be shut down. I honestly don't care what people do with their own flesh and blood, nor do I think (as a conservative) the state can tell a person what to do with their own flesh and blood, within reason. It's long overdue liberals buck up and tidy up their own shit for once.

Of course you aren't! Because if you were your whole fucking argument would be torn to shreds because it would show just how wrong you are!

Keep that bubble safe!

 

[nickqt]

...nor do I think (as a conservative)...

Yes.

We know.

 

[HTFOff]

Of course you aren't! Because if you were your whole fucking argument would be torn to shreds because it would show just how wrong you are!

Keep that bubble safe!

My argument isn't to shut down PP.

I'll take your rage as boredom.

[iwshane]THATS BECAUSE YOUR ARGUMENT BORES ME FUCKHEAD! BLUE TEAM FO' LYFE![/iwshane]

 

[feralkid]

Polio and Rubella were not really a big deal though.

Say What?

 

[ivwshane]

My argument isn't to shut down PP.

I'll take your rage as boredom.

[iwshane]THATS BECAUSE YOUR ARGUMENT BORES ME FUCKHEAD! BLUE TEAM FO' LYFE![/iwshane]

You can take it however you want, the fact remains that you created a bubble for yourself and you keep it filled with circular logic. It's not my fault you are a fucking dumbass

Btw, I'm not on team blue, I'm on team logic and you and people like you are our biggest rivals.

 

[HTFOff]

You can take it however you want, the fact remains that you created a bubble for yourself and you keep it filled with circular logic. It's not my fault you are a fucking dumbass

Btw, I'm not on team blue, I'm on team logic and you and people like you are our biggest rivals.

Calm down. Here's some good reading, it might help.

Nice edit BTW.

 

[nickqt]

Calm down. Here's some good reading, it might help.

Nice edit BTW.

Being able to spell words good means that you're outraged and need to deep breathe!

 

[theeedude]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

How about you let their customers decide if they are necessary or not, instead of you and a bunch of politicians?

 

[ivwshane]

Calm down. Here's some good reading, it might help.

Nice edit BTW.

I'll take your response as a way for you to admit your error and realize that your original post was circular in it's reasoning.

It's ok, we all make mistakes, just not everyone can recognize them, acknowledge them, and learn from them.

 

[First]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

Huh? Abortion is legal and supported by a super-majority of the country, why would we defund PP and reallocate the funds to organizations that don't provide women the choice to have an abortion? You seem to be woefully confused. The half a billion PP receives in gov't funding specifically cannot be used for abortions, because of the Hyde amendment. Defunding PP, then, simply means a straight up defunding of the many health services PP offers to women. For you to admit that you support the funds going to other organizations that don't provide abortions reveals precisely your anti-choice bias, having nothing to do with what was revealed in the videos and having no real concern for the improbability of reallocation half a billion in funds away from PP without hurting women's health services/access, something documented in your own conservative-in-the-tank Daily Signal article, as shown below:

Kathleen Eaton Bravo, founder of a pro-life network of medical clinics called Obria Foundation, has a different response.

“No,” she said bluntly.

Are we ready in the pro-life community to meet the needs of those women? No. I’m sorry to say, after 40 years, no.

Two decades ago, Bravo quit her job as a successful businesswoman to challenge organizations like Planned Parenthood in California, where in 2011, more than 1 million abortions were performed.

She has since opened five pro-life clinics and one mobile unit, which have helped save “thousands” of babies from being aborted. (Bravo said her organization has a “conversion rate” of about 80 percent, saving more than 6,000 babies.)

But if Congress defunds Planned Parenthood, Bravo believes that the pro-life community isn’t ready to handle the number of women they would need to serve.

“We are reactive in the pro-life movement. We are not proactive,” Bravo said. “The issue is, if we defund Planned Parenthood … we don’t have a competitive medical model under a branded name to compete.”

 

[glenn1]

I'll take your response as a way for you to admit your error and realize that your original post was circular in it's reasoning.

It's ok, we all make mistakes, just not everyone can recognize them, acknowledge them, and learn from them.

The only circular thing is the waste disposal bin all those millions of black feutuses go into.

 

[HTFOff]

I'll take your response as a way for you to admit your error and realize that your original post was circular in it's reasoning.

It's ok, we all make mistakes, just not everyone can recognize them, acknowledge them, and learn from them.

You can do better than that.

Kudos for not saying fuckhead, though. My recommendation helped.

 

[ivwshane]

How about you let their customers decide if they are necessary or not, instead of you and a bunch of politicians?

What you don't understand about the righty mentality is that:

They are for small government except when they aren't.
They are against government picking winners except when they aren't.
All life matters except those that are living.
Bigotry and racism no longer exist except by those that point out bigotry and racism.
They are anti abortion and anti anything that would help lower the amount of abortions being had.
They are for states rights except when they aren't.
They support the constitution except when they don't.
They oppose profiting off of dead bodies unless it's a dead soldier's.
Deficits matter except when they don't.

Etc, etc, etc.

 

[First]

The only circular thing is the waste disposal bin all those millions of black feutuses go into.

Herp derp college kiddie twerp.

 

[ivwshane]

The only circular thing is the waste disposal bin all those millions of black feutuses go into.

Oh, so now you support using fetus' for scientific research? What changed your mind?

 

[werepossum]

Haha, maybe this will blow your mind some more:

PP isn't the hostage. The government is. If Dems don't give in to the demand (a budget that does not fund PP) the hostage dies (gov shuts down).

Understood, with the provision that government doesn't die and probably neither does PP. Can't have it both ways, either that half bil isn't essential or PP realy is an abortion agency funded by government. Which isn't to say I'm necessarily in favor of defunding it; I'm not. I'd have to see an actual trustworthy study showing that ending that funding will not cause poor women to lose access to necessary services, and since I trust neither side that probably ain't gonna happen. It IS to say let's be honest in our arguments, and insisting that Republicans have to give Democrats what they want or Republicans are shutting down government when the Democrats filibuster isn't an honest arguments. Neither is this absurdity about hostage taking. Argue the issue on its merits.

People seem to think that if we donate enough dollars, one at a time in the check-out line at the store, we'll cure diseases such as Muscular Dystrophy. They apparently seem completely disconnected with what, besides dollars, is necessary for some of that research.

So you would be fine with, say, substituting a live birth for an abortion if the baby can subsequently be parted out to better benefit vital research?

Polio and Rubella were not really a big deal though.

Wondering why this was not a bigger issue when Bush banned stem cell research, seems in the same vein?

Polio and Rubella were not really a big deal? WTF dude? There is NO more horrendous disease than polio, which left some number of its victims slowly suffocating to death or living in an iron lung.

On a side note, Bush never banned stem cell research. Bush banned federal funding of fetal stem cell research. Personally I have no problem with federal funding of fetal stem cell research; I have a big problem with people being bought and sold.

 

[ivwshane]

You can do better than that.

Kudos for not saying fuckhead, though. My recommendation helped.

I can always do better, your apology helped though

 

[fskimospy]

PP is unnecessary. They are massively outnumbered by the many thousands of govt funded community health centers.

PP exists for one reason. We all know it.

There's a chart showing the number of PP facilities versus the number of other govt health centers about halfway down: http://dailysignal.com/2015/08/03/would-women-be-okay-without-planned-parenthood/

The bill to defund PP just re-allocated the money to other health centers (who do not provide abortions). The resistance to shifting that funding reveals the farcical and duplicitous nature of the argument claiming funding for PP is not funding for abortions.

Fern

Funding for planned parenthood is not funding for abortions. Full stop. Please refrain from making such obviously duplicitous statements in the future.

Planned Parenthood provides large numbers of services to the communities they serve. They also provide abortion services.

People are against defending planned parenthood for several reasons.

First, it makes no sense to do so. They have a large, established health infrastructure and widespread ties go the community. Deciding to suddenly shift their funding to other organizations which I'm quite sure conservatives have not even bothered to look into from a reach and capacity perspective is foolish and wasteful. You might be a fan of wasting money for ideological reasons but I'm not.

Secondly, planned parenthood needs to be protected precisely because they provide abortion services, as those are really important for everyone to have access to.

Maybe conservatives would have more success with limiting funding to planned parenthood of they hasn't spent the last 30 years making hilariously dishonest arguments intended to limit access to abortion.

If anything, I imagine the outcome of this will be that planned parenthood keeps its federal funding and probably sees a big boost to their yearly fundraising totals. Maybe they can build that abortionplex after all.

 

[HTFOff]

Funding for planned parenthood is not funding for abortions. Full stop. Please refrain from making such obviously duplicitous statements in the future.

Planned Parenthood provides large numbers of services to the communities they serve. They also provide abortion services.

People are against defending planned parenthood for several reasons.

First, it makes no sense to do so. They have a large, established health infrastructure and widespread ties go the community. Deciding to suddenly shift their funding to other organizations which I'm quite sure conservatives have not even bothered to look into from a reach and capacity perspective is foolish and wasteful. You might be a fan of wasting money for ideological reasons but I'm not.

Secondly, planned parenthood needs to be protected precisely because they provide abortion services, as those are really important for everyone to have access to.

Maybe conservatives would have more success with limiting funding to planned parenthood of they hasn't spent the last 30 years making hilariously dishonest arguments intended to limit access to abortion.

If anything, I imagine the outcome of this will be that planned parenthood keeps its federal funding and probably sees a big boost to their yearly fundraising totals. Maybe they can build that abortionplex after all.

PP is not obligated to publicly disclose the funds it receives from sell..."donating" fetal tissue. Nor are they required to lists the costs associated by getting the tissue from the mother and in to the hands of researchers. If the cost for procurement helps fund the processs and helps PP "break even" and taxpayer money isn't going towards abortions, why not make these public? A little transparency is a pittance in return for getting a half a billion dollars from taxpayers.

 

[HTFOff]

blablabla

Another post without saying fuck. Kudos.

 

[ivwshane]

Another post without saying fuck. Kudos.

Another deflection from your retarded original post that should have been aborted before you hit submit!

Kudos on continuing through with your stupidity!

 

[Jaskalas]

You understand the difference between recouping costs and selling for profit, right?

Yes, everyone understands you don't need profits for a Lamborghini...