Should the names of the AIG bonus receivers be made public ?

[Fern]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
[-snip-
I reject the obviously faulty notion that one needs to have a "bonus" to do what one is paid to do. That is what your salary is for. Continuing to work for a successful company that can pay that salary and provide you with a stable job is your incentive to do a good job.

You appear to quite unfamiliar with compensation polices etc.

2 good reasons off the top of my head for bonuses:

1. Companies have pay scales for employees - similar job = similar salary at similar rank/experience (otherwise you subject yourself to all type of lawsuits. Imagine a woman or minority receiving a lower salary than a co-worker).

However, we know all workers aren't equal. How do you reward the productive person, the salaried one (thus no overtime) who stays late to finish projects on time etc? Management gives them a bonus.

2. As has been explained numerous times, for any number of jobs we have examples where we can readily see how much profit is brought in by a specific employee. E.g., could be a junior lawyer (not a partner) - we can see their billings compared to the revenue they generate. Why the h3ll wouldn't you give the most profitable a bonus?

Bonuses are very useful tool for employeRs. It allows them to motivate and reward productive employees while at the same limiting wasteful salary expense on employees who work out to be less productive than hoped.

If bonuses were'nt a good idea for business, they wouldn't exist. It's that simple.

Originally posted by: nobodyknows
-snip-
As such, asking a bankrupt company to pay million dollar bonuses is totally and completely ludicrous.

No, it sure as heck isn't.

It might be more readily obvious if you don't think of AIG as A company (meaning just "1"), but dozens of companies.

If your 'company' is profitable, why shouldn't you get a bonus?

If you worked in the MBS (mortgage backed securities) or CDS (credit default swap) departments of AIG-FP you shouldn't be expected to get a bonus, those two departments of one subsidiary of AIG are where the losses ocurred, not in other divisions of AIG-FP or other subsidiaries of AIG.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Wreckem
If the govt didnt step in the profitable parts of AIG would have been snapped in up bankruptcy and those people in them would have still gotten bonuses.

Maybe at 10 cents on the dollar.

That would be wildly foolish.

Other parts (subsidiary companies) of AIG are profitable and worth a lot.

To come in and buy one of them and anger the employees would be monumentally stupid. Good employees make for good companies. No need to chase them off or start out on the wrong foot by making them hate you - the new owner.

Typically, if they are good companies to start with (which is why you would buy them) you don't go changing things. You want the transition to be seamless and basically unnoticable.

This is likely the ultimate fate of AIG.

IMO, should have done that to begin with, instead of the bailout and resulting BS.

Fern

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's not stupid. If you reward people who are responsible for wasting those trillions of dollars, you encourage this to happen again. These people should be in jail, not getting bonuses.

I'm getting a bonus from my company at the end of the month. If the executives made poor decisions and the company was going to go bankrupt, and the government made a decision to bail them out, should I have my bonus revoked and my address made public? Keep in mind I signed this agreement a year ago. and had nothing to do with said decision.

As per my previous post - if your answer is yes, you have serious mental health issues and should seek immediate medical care.

Bonus is reward for company's performance. There is no entitlement to a bonus. AIG lost tens of billions of dollars, so there is no bonus this time. If you want to saddle the taxpayers with a bill for your bonus, they should know who you are.

as has been stated, the people who fucked up are long gone, these bonuses are to the people who are fixing it.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's not stupid. If you reward people who are responsible for wasting those trillions of dollars, you encourage this to happen again. These people should be in jail, not getting bonuses.

I'm getting a bonus from my company at the end of the month. If the executives made poor decisions and the company was going to go bankrupt, and the government made a decision to bail them out, should I have my bonus revoked and my address made public? Keep in mind I signed this agreement a year ago. and had nothing to do with said decision.

As per my previous post - if your answer is yes, you have serious mental health issues and should seek immediate medical care.

Bonus is reward for company's performance. There is no entitlement to a bonus. AIG lost tens of billions of dollars, so there is no bonus this time. If you want to saddle the taxpayers with a bill for your bonus, they should know who you are.

as has been stated, the people who fucked up are long gone, these bonuses are to the people who are fixing it.

And once it's fixed, I'll have no problem with them getting a bonus. Until then...*cracks whip*.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's not stupid. If you reward people who are responsible for wasting those trillions of dollars, you encourage this to happen again. These people should be in jail, not getting bonuses.

I'm getting a bonus from my company at the end of the month. If the executives made poor decisions and the company was going to go bankrupt, and the government made a decision to bail them out, should I have my bonus revoked and my address made public? Keep in mind I signed this agreement a year ago. and had nothing to do with said decision.

As per my previous post - if your answer is yes, you have serious mental health issues and should seek immediate medical care.

Bonus is reward for company's performance. There is no entitlement to a bonus. AIG lost tens of billions of dollars, so there is no bonus this time. If you want to saddle the taxpayers with a bill for your bonus, they should know who you are.

No, a bonus is not always a reward for company performance. That is just one kind of bonus. A bonus is just a lump sum payment outside of your salary received when certain stipulations, set forth in a contract, are met. Sometimes those stipulations are indeed company performance. Sometimes they are personal performance, sometimes, length with the company. In the case of the latter two, it does not matter how the company's performance was. If the stipulations are met, they must be paid, period.

edit: An analogy that might make a little more sense. Many NFL contracts have bonuses in the contract based on stats. If Emmitt Smith gets 20 touchdowns, he gets an additional $5 million. If he gets those 20 TDs - he gets the money. It doesn't matter if the team finishes 3-13 or 14-2, if he gets those 20 TDs, he gets the money as was set forth in his contract. These AIG bonuses work the same way.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's not stupid. If you reward people who are responsible for wasting those trillions of dollars, you encourage this to happen again. These people should be in jail, not getting bonuses.

I'm getting a bonus from my company at the end of the month. If the executives made poor decisions and the company was going to go bankrupt, and the government made a decision to bail them out, should I have my bonus revoked and my address made public? Keep in mind I signed this agreement a year ago. and had nothing to do with said decision.

As per my previous post - if your answer is yes, you have serious mental health issues and should seek immediate medical care.

Bonus is reward for company's performance. There is no entitlement to a bonus. AIG lost tens of billions of dollars, so there is no bonus this time. If you want to saddle the taxpayers with a bill for your bonus, they should know who you are.

as has been stated, the people who fucked up are long gone, these bonuses are to the people who are fixing it.

And once it's fixed, I'll have no problem with them getting a bonus. Until then...*cracks whip*.

BINGO!!!

 

[cubby1223]

The fact that anyone voted yes is a sad statement for AT P&N. That 38% voted yes is an absolute disgrace :|

And here we have tax-payer funded ACORN running bus tours of AIG executive houses. The government threatens a highly unconstitutional 90% tax, and instead of fighting that tax, AIG agrees to effectively a 100% tax on bonuses! :Q

Obama's administration just accomplished setting the populist tax rate for "the rich" at 90%. Going forward, there will be nothing to stop them from taxing "the rich" at any percentage between 40 & 90% they wish.

Goodbye capitalism, hello statism :roll:

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: cubby1223
The fact that anyone voted yes is a sad statement for AT P&N. That 38% voted yes is an absolute disgrace :|

And here we have tax-payer funded ACORN running bus tours of AIG executive houses. The government threatens a highly unconstitutional 90% tax, and instead of fighting that tax, AIG agrees to effectively a 100% tax on bonuses! :Q

Obama's administration just accomplished setting the populist tax rate for "the rich" at 90%. Going forward, there will be nothing to stop them from taxing "the rich" at any percentage between 40 & 90% they wish.

Goodbye capitalism, hello statism :roll:

Check your sources. Obama does not support the 90% tax, and the bill has stalled in the senate.

Seriously, not everything that happens in government is Obama's fault.

Originally posted by: Carmen813

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: senseamp
It's not stupid. If you reward people who are responsible for wasting those trillions of dollars, you encourage this to happen again. These people should be in jail, not getting bonuses.

I'm getting a bonus from my company at the end of the month. If the executives made poor decisions and the company was going to go bankrupt, and the government made a decision to bail them out, should I have my bonus revoked and my address made public? Keep in mind I signed this agreement a year ago. and had nothing to do with said decision.

As per my previous post - if your answer is yes, you have serious mental health issues and should seek immediate medical care.

Bonus is reward for company's performance. There is no entitlement to a bonus. AIG lost tens of billions of dollars, so there is no bonus this time. If you want to saddle the taxpayers with a bill for your bonus, they should know who you are.

as has been stated, the people who fucked up are long gone, these bonuses are to the people who are fixing it.

And once it's fixed, I'll have no problem with them getting a bonus. Until then...*cracks whip*.

Sure, don't pay out the bonus - and then the employees will sue, and win, for your tax money.

Its really, really simple. By giving them a bailout check, the employees get their bonuses. There is no way around that.

 

[OutHouse]

the guys who got the bonuses did nothing wrong. its the jackasses on the hill that voted for the damn thing. they are the ones who just gave away Americas money. they are the ones who didn't read the bill before they voted YES! if you ask me the jackasses on the hill are the ones who should be taxed. if we are going to use our government power to TARGET American CITIZENS because we dont like them, then the Jackasses on the hill should be the first ones we target.

Obama and his ilk are no better than Bush period he has spent 3 TRILLION BUCKS in the past month and a half!!! WTF man we are printing money like pre WWII Germany. "oh you need a billion marks/dollars? ok here you go careful the ink my still be damp"

SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND this shit is out of control

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Check your sources. Obama does not support the 90% tax, and the bill has stalled in the senate.

If you pick up just one thing about me, it is that I don't trust anything Obama says. It is very easy to now speak out against the 90% tax when AIG has "voluntarily" given 100% back.

If Obama stood up and defended AIG bonuses in even the slightest bit, perhaps his words would have more meaning. But when they were said, their meaning was hollow.


Just from a week ago:

http://cbs3.com/business/AIG.b...payments.2.962851.html

President Barack Obama says the House's vote to slap a hefty tax on lavish employee bonuses "rightly reflects the outrage" that so many people feel about insurance giant AIG.

House lawmakers voted decisively Thursday to impose a 90 percent tax on millions of dollars in employee bonuses paid by troubled insurance giant AIG and other bailed-out companies.

Noting that the legislation now moves to the Senate, Obama said he looks forward to receiving a final bill. He said he wants to receive legislation that will send a strong signal to business executives "that such compensation will not be tolerated."

Obama said in his statement that excessive bonuses are part of a larger problem of valuing "reckless speculation" over hard work.

What a damn genius Obama is getting the dumbasses to support him at every turn :roll:

I'm sorry, this is not a game anymore between the left and the right. This is cold hard reality :|


If Obama's administration had succeeded in diverting all our attentions against Limbaugh & Hannity and this phantom "power struggle" in the GOP, this tax very likely would be law right now.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

I'm sorry, this is not a game anymore between the Republicans and Democrats. This is cold hard reality :|

In other words it's all just a big game until it hits your pocketbook?

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: cubby1223

I'm sorry, this is not a game anymore between the Republicans and Democrats. This is cold hard reality :|

In other words it's all just a big game until it hits your pocketbook?

The AIG tax does not apply to me Obama playing "Mr. Populist" appeasing angry mobs was never a game, time after time saying one thing one day, doing the exact opposite the very next day - seems like it's all just one big "funny" joke the government is playing on us...

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: cubby1223

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: cubby1223

I'm sorry, this is not a game anymore between the Republicans and Democrats. This is cold hard reality :|

In other words it's all just a big game until it hits your pocketbook?

The AIG tax does not apply to me Obama playing "Mr. Populist" appeasing angry mobs was never a game, time after time saying one thing one day, doing the exact opposite the very next day - seems like it's all just one big "funny" joke the government is playing on us...

Kind of like the "contract with America", huh.