Sheryl Crow - "War is not the answer"

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

No, I am not in the service. And insulting is not a good way to make a point. What do you liberals want before we attack there? For them to actually attack us? You liberals make me sick to my stomach, your philosophy of 'don't attack and wait for it to happen'.

Like you calling me a Liberal because I'm wary about us attacking a soveriegn nation without hard evidence isn't an insult on your part? If the weapons are there we should find enough evidence to justify an attack. Until then you can shove your liberal labeling up your Limbaughtista bunghole. BTW Dipsh!t, Pat Buchanan is against attacking Iraq without any hard evidence and he's about as far right as you get.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I got confused reading all the posts and started to think for myself; can't have that.

What is Hollywood telling me to believe in, again?

Just listen to Limbaugh for a couple days. That's where all the conservatives that can't think for themselves find their opinions.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Ok here,

""War is based on greed, and there are huge karmic retributions that will follow," Crow explained backstage. "And I think war is never the answer to solving our problems. I think the best way to solving problems is to not have enemies.""

From: Washington Post.

Boy, that would be nice. Does she have any ideas on how to make that happen, or is she just full of hot air?

 

[LANMAN]

She probably can't explain why she can't account for lost time.

Sheryl: "Oh, and can you get those aliens out of my attic? I need to talk to the president."


---LANMAN

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

Excuse me while I butt in, but I am in the service, and if we do attack, I just might get sent over there risking life and limb, but if you all just knew who your are really dealing with, you would of said, "Why are we waiting?? Let's get in there!!"

Just today Iraq said if they increase their inspections and get more aggressive, "We cannot guarantee their safety."
Does it get any more black and white? They're just playing cat and mouse; and if we actually go in there, I can only imagine what we would find after thousands of more inspectors arrive instead of a handful.

For those of you that say, "ah, lets just give it time..." That's exactly what Saddam wants you to think. "Poor little ol' me, why does the US want to pick on me."

All the thousands of troops already on their way to the gulf, I don't think that is a "Training" mission. Read the writing on the wall. We're going in and there isn't a damn thing Saddam can do about it. Except run...

So for those that don't think we should do anything. Why do you think Saddam doesn't have anything? Read it in a newspaper or webpage?
Trust your (our) armed forces and those YOU elected. We're here to protect your freedom, so support those that are going over there, instead of procrastinating.
Better yet, sign up! We'll see just how big a man/woman you are when you have to fight for your country and fight terrorism.
You'll respect the flag more, I guarantee it!

--LANMAN

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

Excuse me while I butt in, but I am in the service, and if we do attack, I just might get sent over there risking life and limb, but if you all just knew who your are really dealing with, you would of said, "Why are we waiting?? Let's get in there!!"

Just today Iraq said if they increase their inspections and get more aggressive, "We cannot guarantee their safety."
Does it get any more black and white? They're just playing cat and mouse and if we actually do go in there, I can only imagine what we would find after we could go where we want with thousands of more inspectors instead of a handful.

For those of you that say, "ah, lets just give it time..." That's exactly what Saddam wants you to think. "Poor little ol' me, why does the US want to pick on me."

All the thousands of troops already on their way to the gulf, I don't think that is a "Training" mission. Read the writing on the wall. We're going in and there isn't a damn thing Saddam can do about it. Except run...

So for those that don't think we should do anything. Why do you think Saddam doesn't have anything? Read it in a newspaper or webpage? Trust your government people. We're here to protect your freedom so support those that are going over there, instead of procrastinating.

--LANMAN

I trust my government as much as I would trust a Weasal in a hen house.

Tell me, what do you think the consequences will be in the long run if we attack Iraq? A more stable region there? Some how I doubt it. You aren't going to win the hearts of the Muslims by kicking the sh!t out of Iraq without proof positive that they have these weazpons. If they are there then we should be able to find them. What's the big deal if we wait an extra 9 months surely they won't be able to keep them hidden if they are preparing to use them for war.

I support our Servicemen and women over there, I just don't want to put them into harms way without a justifiable reason. I want to see proof. Show it to me and I'll support going in there ASAP. Meanwhile until you do I suggest we show a little more patience. Them shooting at our planes over the No Fly Zone isn't reason enough to put Americans at risk (besides the Pilots getting shot at).

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

Excuse me while I butt in, but I am in the service, and if we do attack, I just might get sent over there risking life and limb, but if you all just knew who your are really dealing with, you would of said, "Why are we waiting?? Let's get in there!!"

Just today Iraq said if they increase their inspections and get more aggressive, "We cannot guarantee their safety."
Does it get any more black and white? They're just playing cat and mouse; and if we actually go in there, I can only imagine what we would find after thousands of more inspectors arrive instead of a handful.

For those of you that say, "ah, lets just give it time..." That's exactly what Saddam wants you to think. "Poor little ol' me, why does the US want to pick on me."

All the thousands of troops already on their way to the gulf, I don't think that is a "Training" mission. Read the writing on the wall. We're going in and there isn't a damn thing Saddam can do about it. Except run...

So for those that don't think we should do anything. Why do you think Saddam doesn't have anything? Read it in a newspaper or webpage?
Trust your (our) armed forces and those YOU elected. We're here to protect your freedom, so support those that are going over there, instead of procrastinating.
Better yet, sign up! We'll see just how big a man/woman you are when you have to fight for your country and fight terrorism.
You'll respect the flag more, I guarantee it!

--LANMAN

Fvck that! I didn't vote for war and I see no proof that it is warranted.

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

Excuse me while I butt in, but I am in the service, and if we do attack, I just might get sent over there risking life and limb, but if you all just knew who your are really dealing with, you would of said, "Why are we waiting?? Let's get in there!!"

Just today Iraq said if they increase their inspections and get more aggressive, "We cannot guarantee their safety."
Does it get any more black and white? They're just playing cat and mouse and if we actually do go in there, I can only imagine what we would find after we could go where we want with thousands of more inspectors instead of a handful.

For those of you that say, "ah, lets just give it time..." That's exactly what Saddam wants you to think. "Poor little ol' me, why does the US want to pick on me."

All the thousands of troops already on their way to the gulf, I don't think that is a "Training" mission. Read the writing on the wall. We're going in and there isn't a damn thing Saddam can do about it. Except run...

So for those that don't think we should do anything. Why do you think Saddam doesn't have anything? Read it in a newspaper or webpage? Trust your government people. We're here to protect your freedom so support those that are going over there, instead of procrastinating.

--LANMAN

I want to see proof.

Sorry, but you and I know proof, evidence etc... is classified. That's why I said you have to trust those we appoint (elect) to watch over us.
Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens."

It's not going to happen.

<<...I trust my government as much as I would trust a Weasal in a hen house. ..>

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I know you would change your mind in a heart beat if you only knew what's going on in those countries. I'm afraid the only thing that will change your mind (and others of course) is when a terrorist gets his/her hands on something very powerful, like a chemical weapon, only then will everyone understand why we are taking advantage of this opportunity.

I totally agree with what your saying though. To the civilan sector most people that haven't been in the service don't understand how it works. Therefore they like to see before they believe. But giving you that information ahead of time will only give the bad guy an advantage. You would posess the knowledge, but now that you know, so do they.

Again, why would saddam say they can't guarantee inspectors safety if they increase the inspections? Sounds like we're getting close and making him nervous. If he doesn't have anything to hide why in the He|| would he say something like that? He might as well be standing in front of the door leading to the weapons saying, "You don't need to look in here.. there's nothing in there anyway."


--LANMAN

 

[flavio]

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: dcpsoguy
Umm, looks like we just found 12 empty chemical warheads, supposedly in excellent shape.

There's your smoking gun, liberals.

Are you in the Service? Are you going to be risking life and limb? Easy to be a Hawk when it's not your fat ass on the line.

Excuse me while I butt in, but I am in the service, and if we do attack, I just might get sent over there risking life and limb, but if you all just knew who your are really dealing with, you would of said, "Why are we waiting?? Let's get in there!!"

Just today Iraq said if they increase their inspections and get more aggressive, "We cannot guarantee their safety."
Does it get any more black and white? They're just playing cat and mouse; and if we actually go in there, I can only imagine what we would find after thousands of more inspectors arrive instead of a handful.

For those of you that say, "ah, lets just give it time..." That's exactly what Saddam wants you to think. "Poor little ol' me, why does the US want to pick on me."

All the thousands of troops already on their way to the gulf, I don't think that is a "Training" mission. Read the writing on the wall. We're going in and there isn't a damn thing Saddam can do about it. Except run...

So for those that don't think we should do anything. Why do you think Saddam doesn't have anything? Read it in a newspaper or webpage?
Trust your (our) armed forces and those YOU elected. We're here to protect your freedom, so support those that are going over there, instead of procrastinating.
Better yet, sign up! We'll see just how big a man/woman you are when you have to fight for your country and fight terrorism.
You'll respect the flag more, I guarantee it!

--LANMAN

Fvck that! I didn't vote for war and I see no proof that it is warranted.

If you live in the US you voted for it. If you see otherwise then I guess you better go see your local congressmen and speak up.
Just like I said, you won't see proof until we increase the inspections or go get the evidence ourselves.
YOUR PROOF IS CLASSIFIED!! Your not going to get it on CNN so quit asking for it. The only way your going to see it on TV is if the Iraqis are so stupid they get caught with their pants down and forget just one shipment, building.. you fill in the blank... and the UN inspectors find it.

***
You aren't going to win the hearts of the Muslims by kicking the sh!t out of Iraq without proof positive that they have these weazpons...

Red Dawn,

This isn't to win the hearts of Muslims. This is to stop terrorism and those developing weapons that support terrorism or even directly terrorists. Once again, the proof is classified. Until we go in and physically optain it, then you'll get your proof. Until then you'll see nothing.

--LANMAN

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: flavio

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

That was an example or relevance.. obviously you didn't see that, so you can disregard my comment.

Now I know why you can't understand whats going on.

--LANMAN

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

That was an example or relevance.. obviously you didn't see that, so you can disregard my comment.

Now I know why you can't understand whats going on.

--LANMAN

No I don't understand YOU. You say "Proof would be the same as seeing the attack plans".

Well, it's not the same. You can't see that? I hope some of these troops are smarter than you are.

YOUR PROOF IS CLASSIFIED!!

Every little scrap they find is on the news. I doubt if they found real evidence that they would keep it from us. Bush is dying to find an excuse.

 

[Sid59]

Originally posted by: wfbberzerker
just what we need... more people who know nothing about politics but who use their popularity to make political statements.

great .. let's assume all celebrities don't know crap. They aren't human. I think people who fall into the trap in thinking celebrities are on higher level than joe regular fell prey to the media. They are no better than we are. I don't believe they should get off any easier cause they are famous. Hell, Winonna shoulda gotten more than a handslap for stealing.


If Sheryl Crow can wear a t-shirt that says no war and it appeals to her fanbase, that's great. If musicians in the 60's could write songs about not going to war or put on a concert to NOT send soldiers to Vietnam, why can't people wear t-shirts?

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

That was an example or relevance.. obviously you didn't see that, so you can disregard my comment.

Now I know why you can't understand whats going on.

--LANMAN

No I don't understand YOU. You say "Proof would be the same as seeing the attack plans".

Well, it's not the same. You can't see that? I hope some of these troops are smarter than you are.

YOUR PROOF IS CLASSIFIED!!

Every little scrap they find is on the news. I doubt if they found real evidence that they would keep it from us. Bush is dying to find an excuse.

That's exactly the misunderstanding we get from you civilians. Leave the war stuff to us. If you don't like it then go cry in your corner because it's going to happen anyway. Attack plans carry the same classifcation as proof photos of weapons. Now do you understand? Classified is classified. Troop movements or whatever.

Any NO they don't put everything on the news. If you believe that, then I hope other civilians are smarter then you are!

--LANMAN

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

That was an example or relevance.. obviously you didn't see that, so you can disregard my comment.

Now I know why you can't understand whats going on.

--LANMAN

No I don't understand YOU. You say "Proof would be the same as seeing the attack plans".

Well, it's not the same. You can't see that? I hope some of these troops are smarter than you are.

YOUR PROOF IS CLASSIFIED!!

Every little scrap they find is on the news. I doubt if they found real evidence that they would keep it from us. Bush is dying to find an excuse.

That's exactly the misunderstanding we get from you civilians. Leave the war stuff to us. If you don't like it then go cry in your corner because it's going to happen anyway. Attack plans carry the same classifcation as proof photos of weapons. Now do you understand? Classified is classified. Troop movements or whatever.

Any NO they don't put everything on the news. If you believe that, then I hope other civilians are smarter then you are!

--LANMAN

Sounds to me like you are itching for some bloodletting. I wonder if you'd feel the same if our opponent was someone like China. Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

If the Iraqi?s are so good at hiding WMD?s then how come they suck at everything else as far as Military Strategy, their secret codes, their Military Pilots and their technology? If they have those weapons tucked away so well that the UN can?t find them then what makes you think they will be able to use them with any kind of effectiveness in case we do decide to have at it with them next month or next year? Maybe the Bush Administration is in a hurry to get it on with them because the American People are starting to question the wisdom of fighting a war over there and in a year Bush and his buddies might not have the American people behind them anymore.

 

[LANMAN]

<... We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us...>

These officers your speak of report to the Chief of the Armed Forces. President Bush. We as the American people though voting elected him to be our leader, therefore our senior officers can only advise him of what to do, otherwise he is in control. (Of course you have Congress to deal with if he desides to go to war, however..) If you don't like what you see then contact your local congress representative.

<...If the Iraqi?s are so good at hiding WMD?s then how come they suck at everything else as far as Military Strategy, their secret codes, their Military Pilots and their technology? If they have those weapons tucked away so well that the UN can?t find them then what makes you think they will be able to use them with any kind of effectiveness in case we do decide to have at it with them next month or next year? ...>

Things you probably already know, but they were caught hiding things submerged under water. I don't know about you, but most UN inspectors are probably going from building to building not suiting up in their scubba gear. Iraq will do everything they can to keep them from finding anything tangible otherwise why would they say, (I can' t believe I'm typing this three times) "If you make your inspections more aggressive, we cannot guarantee the inspectors safety." They suck because it seems they're doing stupid sh!t every 10 years and pissing some other country off knocking them back down the ladder. Russians fought with them for years, and then you had Desert Storm. Now another 10 years it's happening again. They're only able to achieve how to hide because every time they do get closer so good military "secret codes, pilots or technology" they end up using it on Kuwait or some other helpless country. What we're trying to avoild is him selling what good technology or "secrets" he does have to someone or some country that wants to do grave harm to anyone againist the US and it's allies. Why can't he just run his country like all the other presidents and leave everyone else alone? I don't care what he does to his own people, or do I care if he is or isn't Muslim. What I do care about is if I go overseas either on vacation or on a assignment, I don't want his goons trying to kill me just because I'm an American.

To answer you question: "If they have those weapons tucked away,... what makes you think they will be able to use them.." It doesn't take very long to put a chemical weapon on a rocket and launch it. We're only talking a day or a few days.

All be honest with you. I don't personally know if he does or if he doesn't have what they're looking for. But knowing what chemical weapons do, becuase of my training, I fear that the most. I've been in the "gas chamber" as they just expose you to stuff that makes you choke and throw up. After holding my breath for over one minute I had to take a breath. When I did, I wished to God I hadn't. I was toast in 5 seconds.
Now thats training, but if you get the real stuff your dead in 5 seconds. There are so many agents it's hard to describe what he can or can't do. Blister agents, blood agents, nerve agents to name a few. They make you drown on your own body fluids! Disconnect your central nervous system! Or if you happen to get lucky, your just get blisters on your skin that never go away; you pop them and whatever that body fluid touches will become even a larger blister. It's hell I'm telling you!
I'm not one going to stand aside and take the chance of allowing someone who has already demonstrated his worthlessness produce these kind of weapons. If he's so innocent then he needs to stand aside and allow the inspectors to check no matter how many inspectors are in his country.

I agree war is something we could definitely live without. But there are times where we don't have a choice.

--LANMAN

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

Military doesn't start a war, it is civilians (president and congress) who decides to go into a war,
once a decision has been made by civilians, then military admirals and generals come up
with with battle plans, logistics, and exit plans.

 

[flavio]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio

Until we actually go in maybe then you will see your proof, but until then the proof your asking for would be like saying, "Show us how your going to attack Iraq before it happens.

That's a load of crap. We don't need to see attack plans just proof that he is not complying. You see, these are two very different things.

That was an example or relevance.. obviously you didn't see that, so you can disregard my comment.

Now I know why you can't understand whats going on.

--LANMAN

No I don't understand YOU. You say "Proof would be the same as seeing the attack plans".

Well, it's not the same. You can't see that? I hope some of these troops are smarter than you are.

YOUR PROOF IS CLASSIFIED!!

Every little scrap they find is on the news. I doubt if they found real evidence that they would keep it from us. Bush is dying to find an excuse.

That's exactly the misunderstanding we get from you civilians. Leave the war stuff to us. If you don't like it then go cry in your corner because it's going to happen anyway. Attack plans carry the same classifcation as proof photos of weapons. Now do you understand? Classified is classified. Troop movements or whatever.

Any NO they don't put everything on the news. If you believe that, then I hope other civilians are smarter then you are!

--LANMAN

This is exactly the kind of crap we get from you idiots. Leave the thinking to people with brains. With as unpopular as the war would be you don't think Bush would jump at the chance to say "We found nukes and biological weapons. IT'S WAR TIME!

 

[LANMAN]

Originally posted by: flavio


This is exactly the kind of crap we get from you idiots. Leave the thinking to people with brains. With as unpopular as the war would be you don't think Bush would jump at the chance to say "We found nukes and biological weapons. IT'S WAR TIME!

Idiots?? If your an American how dare you call me an idiot!! I'm working my a$$ off to protect your freedom and to ensure people like Saddam don't use those weapons when he damn well pleases. Screw your damn values and get the hell out and move to Iraq! Heck just move anywhere but here. We'll see just how fast you change your mind.

We as a county elected all of our congressmen, judges, presidents,... etc. If you think going over there is so damn stupid then you can only blame yourself for electing those who you put into power. No one said you had to like what President Bush is doing, but yet we don't hear a damn thing vaild on why you think we shouldn't go over there, except proof. History is proof enough.

Damn man, Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran troops. Don't you think he would do the same thing to anyone else who pisses him off?
You won't see the light until someone you care about gets killed from a idiot like him, who could care less about you wanting Proof before we go in. Your just another sucker that thinks we should give him a break when in fact he's using that time to conceal what he doesn't want the world to see.

Your an idiot for being so blind sided against our military. Oh and BTW: as we speak, 10,000 troops are leaving CA. for the gulf.

This discussion is OVER.... people like you just piss me off when your at work drinking your coffee, posting in this BBS, while you have fellow Americans getting ready to protect your ASSests.

Maybe some day you'll wise up and respect those who served, and stand behind the people YOU put in office. Don't blame me, blame yourself.

Your the IDIOT!!

--LANMAN

 

[ElFenix]

if i had 10 years practice at hiding something and didn't want you to find it you wouldn't.

 

[308nato]

Originally posted by: LANMAN

Originally posted by: flavio


This is exactly the kind of crap we get from you idiots. Leave the thinking to people with brains. With as unpopular as the war would be you don't think Bush would jump at the chance to say "We found nukes and biological weapons. IT'S WAR TIME!

Idiots?? If your an American how dare you call me an idiot!! I'm working my a$$ off to protect your freedom and to ensure people like Saddam don't use those weapons when he damn well pleases. Screw your damn values and get the hell out and move to Iraq! Heck just move anywhere but here. We'll see just how fast you change your mind.

We as a county elected all of our congressmen, judges, presidents,... etc. If you think going over there is so damn stupid then you can only blame yourself for electing those who you put into power. No one said you had to like what President Bush is doing, but yet we don't hear a damn thing vaild on why you think we shouldn't go over there, except proof. History is proof enough.

Damn man, Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran troops. Don't you think he would do the same thing to anyone else who pisses him off?
You won't see the light until someone you care about gets killed from a idiot like him, who could care less about you wanting Proof before we go in. Your just another sucker that thinks we should give him a break when in fact he's using that time to conceal what he doesn't want the world to see.

Your an idiot for being so blind sided against our military. Oh and BTW: as we speak, 10,000 troops are leaving CA. for the gulf.

This discussion is OVER.... people like you just piss me off when your at work drinking your coffee, posting in this BBS, while you have fellow Americans getting ready to protect your ASSests.

Maybe some day you'll wise up and respect those who served, and stand behind the people YOU put in office. Don't blame me, blame yourself.

Your the IDIOT!!

--LANMAN

Ha, your using truth, logic and reason. That will get you nowhere with the lemmings.

Have a nice day and thanks.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

Military doesn't start a war, it is civilians (president and congress) who decides to go into a war,
once a decision has been made by civilians, then military admirals and generals come up
with with battle plans, logistics, and exit plans.

I know, I was just replying to LanMan's post

LanMan

I agree war is something we could definitely live without. But there are times where we don't have a choice.

I have a feeling that the Military Actions we undertake in Iraq will prove to be the easy part. A War in that region could have a destabilizing effect on many of the nations that we consider our allies such as Saudi Arabia, a Monarchy in an Islamic Fundamentalist Hotbed. What happened in Iran back in the 80's could very well happen there if the fundamentalists use our actions to whip up Strong Anti Western Feelings. Then there's the situation of Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Because they have been protected by the UN No Fly Zone the Kurds have been able to set up an Autonomous Government which has become a thriving Democracy. Unfortunately to gain Turkeys support for the war we had to promise them that we would not recognize or support any form of Kurdish Government in Northern Iraq because of the troubles Turkey has with Kurdish demands for Autonomy in N. Eastern Turkey. Do we just turn our backs on them like we did immediately after the Gulf War?

Also, with the Secular Government of Hussien deposed who are we going to install as the Head of the new Iraqi Government? The Majority of Iraqi's are Shiite Muslim (Hussein?s Baath Party is predominantly Sunni). The Shiite Muslims tend to be more fundamentalist and probably would want a government similar to Iran. Our close ties with Israel is bound to become a major problem.

Frankly I feel that to address these questions and possible senarios we?d need interaction with the UN as a whole, not just the US and British Coalition with the peripheral support of those countries we have called in favors for or paid off to help support our military actions

 

[Geekbabe]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

Military doesn't start a war, it is civilians (president and congress) who decides to go into a war,
once a decision has been made by civilians, then military admirals and generals come up
with with battle plans, logistics, and exit plans.

I know, I was just replying to LanMan's post

LanMan

I agree war is something we could definitely live without. But there are times where we don't have a choice.

I have a feeling that the Military Actions we undertake in Iraq will prove to be the easy part. A War in that region could have a destabilizing effect on many of the nations that we consider our allies such as Saudi Arabia, a Monarchy in an Islamic Fundamentalist Hotbed. What happened in Iran back in the 80's could very well happen there if the fundamentalists use our actions to whip up Strong Anti Western Feelings. Then there's the situation of Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Because they have been protected by the UN No Fly Zone the Kurds have been able to set up an Autonomous Government which has become a thriving Democracy. Unfortunately to gain Turkeys support for the war we had to promise them that we would not recognize or support any form of Kurdish Government in Northern Iraq because of the troubles Turkey has with Kurdish demands for Autonomy in N. Eastern Turkey. Do we just turn our backs on them like we did immediately after the Gulf War?

Also, with the Secular Government of Hussien deposed who are we going to install as the Head of the new Iraqi Government? The Majority of Iraqi's are Shiite Muslim (Hussein?s Baath Party is predominantly Sunni). The Shiite Muslims tend to be more fundamentalist and probably would want a government similar to Iran. Our close ties with Israel is bound to become a major problem.

Frankly I feel that to address these questions and possible senarios we?d need interaction with the UN as a whole, not just the US and British Coalition with the peripheral support of those countries we have called in favors for or paid off to help support our military actions

Very well thought out and reasoned response there.I think many of us are still so blown away by the events of 9/11 that we can't see the entire picture clearly and that picture involves a heck of a lot more than one little country.It's still too easy to be reactionary.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

Military doesn't start a war, it is civilians (president and congress) who decides to go into a war,
once a decision has been made by civilians, then military admirals and generals come up
with with battle plans, logistics, and exit plans.

I know, I was just replying to LanMan's post

LanMan

I agree war is something we could definitely live without. But there are times where we don't have a choice.

I have a feeling that the Military Actions we undertake in Iraq will prove to be the easy part. A War in that region could have a destabilizing effect on many of the nations that we consider our allies such as Saudi Arabia, a Monarchy in an Islamic Fundamentalist Hotbed. What happened in Iran back in the 80's could very well happen there if the fundamentalists use our actions to whip up Strong Anti Western Feelings. Then there's the situation of Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Because they have been protected by the UN No Fly Zone the Kurds have been able to set up an Autonomous Government which has become a thriving Democracy. Unfortunately to gain Turkeys support for the war we had to promise them that we would not recognize or support any form of Kurdish Government in Northern Iraq because of the troubles Turkey has with Kurdish demands for Autonomy in N. Eastern Turkey. Do we just turn our backs on them like we did immediately after the Gulf War?

Also, with the Secular Government of Hussien deposed who are we going to install as the Head of the new Iraqi Government? The Majority of Iraqi's are Shiite Muslim (Hussein?s Baath Party is predominantly Sunni). The Shiite Muslims tend to be more fundamentalist and probably would want a government similar to Iran. Our close ties with Israel is bound to become a major problem.

Frankly I feel that to address these questions and possible senarios we?d need interaction with the UN as a whole, not just the US and British Coalition with the peripheral support of those countries we have called in favors for or paid off to help support our military actions

Red you bring up some good points. Hopefully here's a couple of more. I have read in the last couple of days two things about SA. One is that they are trying to organize a coup and two they are entertaining overtures from Saddams staff that have to do with exile. As far as Turkey goes we may have some leverage. I think they badly want into the EU (correct me if I'm wrong) and that may be enough to get them to play ball.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: SlowSS

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Frankly I'd rather not let the Military decide whether we go to war or not since they are in the business of war and war with the Iraqi's offers a chance for fame and glory with little cause for concern as far as them being a competent adversary. We just might have to fight a way over there but it shouldn't be left to Majors and Generals to decide if we do and our government needs to justify it with the American people because after all, they do work for us.

Military doesn't start a war, it is civilians (president and congress) who decides to go into a war,
once a decision has been made by civilians, then military admirals and generals come up
with with battle plans, logistics, and exit plans.

I know, I was just replying to LanMan's post

LanMan

I agree war is something we could definitely live without. But there are times where we don't have a choice.

I have a feeling that the Military Actions we undertake in Iraq will prove to be the easy part. A War in that region could have a destabilizing effect on many of the nations that we consider our allies such as Saudi Arabia, a Monarchy in an Islamic Fundamentalist Hotbed. What happened in Iran back in the 80's could very well happen there if the fundamentalists use our actions to whip up Strong Anti Western Feelings. Then there's the situation of Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Because they have been protected by the UN No Fly Zone the Kurds have been able to set up an Autonomous Government which has become a thriving Democracy. Unfortunately to gain Turkeys support for the war we had to promise them that we would not recognize or support any form of Kurdish Government in Northern Iraq because of the troubles Turkey has with Kurdish demands for Autonomy in N. Eastern Turkey. Do we just turn our backs on them like we did immediately after the Gulf War?

Also, with the Secular Government of Hussien deposed who are we going to install as the Head of the new Iraqi Government? The Majority of Iraqi's are Shiite Muslim (Hussein?s Baath Party is predominantly Sunni). The Shiite Muslims tend to be more fundamentalist and probably would want a government similar to Iran. Our close ties with Israel is bound to become a major problem.

Frankly I feel that to address these questions and possible senarios we?d need interaction with the UN as a whole, not just the US and British Coalition with the peripheral support of those countries we have called in favors for or paid off to help support our military actions

Red you bring up some good points. Hopefully here's a couple of more. I have read in the last couple of days two things about SA. One is that they are trying to organize a coup and two they are entertaining overtures from Saddams staff that have to do with exile. As far as Turkey goes we may have some leverage. I think they badly want into the EU (correct me if I'm wrong) and that may be enough to get them to play ball.

You make a good point regarding Turkey and their desire to be included into the EU. In fact they want in so bad that they are even pressuring the Turkish Cypriots to reunify with the Greeks Cypriots.