Sen. Rand Paul detained by TSA

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Aug 14, 2001
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you are mising the point, he is the exact opposite

.

Wrong. These Paul-minions are against civil liberties. They only talk about the federal government, but they're fine with state governments doing all kinds of things against individuals.

In the Paul-World, states can throw citizens into prisons for fun and that would be OK with the Paul-World.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
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Wrong. These Paul-minions are against civil liberties. They only talk about the federal government, but they're fine with state governments doing all kinds of things against individuals.

In the Paul-World, states can throw citizens into prisons for fun and that would be OK with the Paul-World.

hefty claims with no proof to back it up. atleast I posted videos of him defending our rights in the senate
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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hefty claims with no proof to back it up. atleast I posted videos of him defending our rights in the senate

These are common Paul-type positions. He's only talking about your rights against the federal government. What about state government? Sorry, according to the Paul-World, you have almost no rights.

If a state wanted to force a cavity search on everyone who wants to board an airplane, that would be fine in the Paul-World. So I think it's only fitting that Rand Paul cry like a little baby at a minor infraction considering the horrors that he and his father support.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
You are a fine citizen comrade. Flying and roads existed before the tsa or th security theater post 911. People built lives upon existing transportation. Your view, though common, is exceedingly naive.

My hope, but not belief, is that this brings things to the forefront to a degree necessary to curtail tsa significantly.

Don't hold your breath, Papa and his little boy playing politics will not sway the many.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
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These are common Paul-type positions. He's only talking about your rights against the federal government. What about state government? Sorry, according to the Paul-World, you have almost no rights.

If a state wanted to force a cavity search on everyone who wants to board an airplane, that would be fine in the Paul-World. So I think it's only fitting that Rand Paul cry like a little baby at a minor infraction considering the horrors that he and his father support.

again, thats great but words on the internet mean little. show me some proof and I will accept it as fact. too much FUD everywhere in election year, especially on the internet.

(its not like he think he is the greatest politician ever hes bound to be wacko somewhere)



I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.

there are other places with far far less security than the US and they dont have planes falling from the sky due to bombs ETC. Just sayin.

Obviosuly some security is needed, but if you think whats going on is OK, well, I feel sorry for you
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.

I'd be very happy to return to the type of security we had in the early 60's.
Do you honestly think the actions of the TSA are keeping you safe?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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This news is second only to hearing the MPAA openly threaten bought out politicians who have backed down on SOPA and PIPA.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...who-arent-corrupt-enough-to-stay-bought.shtml

I believe the only path to escaping this downward spiral is to elect a Libertarian as President. Ron and Rand Paul are the only thing hopeful about American politics. I think everyone has had enough TSA pat downs and terror alerts. I think we've sued enough single moms and destroyed enough legitimate on-line businesses and websites through ridiculous legislation paid for by corporations and supported by corrupt elected officials.

This has nothing to do with the Op`s post......
 
Aug 14, 2001
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again, thats great but words on the internet mean little. show me some proof and I will accept it as fact. too much FUD everywhere in election year, especially on the internet.

(its not like he think he is the greatest politician ever hes bound to be wacko somewhere)

How about you actually know the most basic facts of the Paul-Leaders? They don't support the 14th Amendment and the incorporation doctrine.

They think that a world where a state demands to strip you down and perform a cavity search on you if you want to board an airplane is a perfectly fine world, it fits within their insane political platform.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.

I'd be fine with that as long as I could carry a gun on the plane to keep me safe.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
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Good enough for the stupid asses (not necessarily Paul) who voted this crap in. Now if only a few more could get hit with the Patriot Act or other bullshit acts like it, maybe some of it would be repealed. Doubtful though.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
I'd be very happy to return to the type of security we had in the early 60's.
Do you honestly think the actions of the TSA are keeping you safe?

I sure as hell don't want to go back to Hari Krishnas/religious sects, sales people, and parasites given free access to the airports like it was before 9/11. As for being safer I do believe that the TSA has reduced some risks to the flying public.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,073
55,604
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I'd be fine with that as long as I could carry a gun on the plane to keep me safe.

The general public carrying guns on a plane would be a really bad idea. If a bullet hit a window, which is not that unlikely, it could cause the explosive depressurization of the entire cabin.

Bad news.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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How about you actually know the most basic facts of the Paul-Leaders? They don't support the 14th Amendment and the incorporation doctrine.

They think that a world where a state demands to strip you down and perform a cavity search on you if you want to board an airplane is a perfectly fine world, it fits within their insane political platform.

You're confusing sen Rand with his farther Ron.

Go google some of rands hearings regarding toilets and his membership of homeland security committee.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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I sure as hell don't want to go back to Hari Krishnas/religious sects, sales people, and parasites given free access to the airports like it was before 9/11. As for being safer I do believe that the TSA has reduced some risks to the flying public.

It's easy to control soliciting without infringing on the rights of travelers. I think there's a slight amount of reduced risk with the TSA, but it's not worth the money spent and especially not worth the violation of our 4th Amendment Rights.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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The general public carrying guns on a plane would be a really bad idea. If a bullet hit a window, which is not that unlikely, it could cause the explosive depressurization of the entire cabin.

Bad news.

Not quite. It's an overly used movie idea that isn't really accurate. The ribs in the fuselage would prevent it. Hole would have to be much bigger, ala Aloha Airlines flight 243. Still doesn't change the fact firearms and passengers are a bad bad idea.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
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I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.

Right, because the airlines themselves have no interest in preventing $100M planes from being blown up...
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
How about you actually know the most basic facts of the Paul-Leaders? They don't support the 14th Amendment and the incorporation doctrine.

They think that a world where a state demands to strip you down and perform a cavity search on you if you want to board an airplane is a perfectly fine world, it fits within their insane political platform.

So you're against the states doing cavity searches but are OK with the feds doing them? You are a seriously confused individual.

61505d1283269354-beautiful-black-women-troll_be_gone.gif
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
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And as senator and his committee he's in perfect place to make that happen. He's been very vocally and procedurally against this stuff.

What better way to draw attention to the issue than political theater?

You really need to look into rands actions. Dude is one of the best senators we have right now. Liberals should like him, but because he has r behind his name they don't.

I'm not a Ron Paul supporter, but I and my state did send Rand to the senate for a reason. He has not disappointed.
 
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WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Since the Senate is in session....

"The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning
from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."

Federal agency violates the constitution, is anyone surprised?

Don't say anything about air ports there, fool. You're reading more then what's there. Just getting in and out of the houses of insession congress. ROTFLAAF
 
Aug 14, 2001
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So you're against the states doing cavity searches but are OK with the feds doing them? You are a seriously confused individual.

61505d1283269354-beautiful-black-women-troll_be_gone.gif

I'm not fine with any government entity violating an individual's civil liberties. Obviously Ron and Rand Paul feel very differently. They would love to see a state government subject every citizen to a cavity search.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
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I'd like Rand Paul and the rest of those who think the TSA is being outrageous to provide us with THEIR blueprint for airport security.

Perhaps we can have two types of airports: Those with "Libertarian" security and those with today's version of TSA security. Travelers would be able to pick and choose which type of security they desired, and the prices they paid for tickets would - in part - reflect the overall cost (including blown-up planes) of maintaining that level of security.

I assume "Libertarian security" would have no scanning of bags or people, no pat-downs, no metal detectors, no restrictions on fluids carried through security, no restrictions on firearms or explosives, and no requirement that those going to the gate area even had to have boarding passes. Freedom, freedom! And I'm sure everyone in this thread decrying Rand Paul's "detainment" would happily board such flights.
My blueprint for airport security would be the same one Israel uses.
When last did a terrorist hijack an El-Al flight? December 1968.

You really think the American TSA system is safer than what Israel uses at Ben Gurion Airport?
I'm guessing you didn't see that 60 minutes(or some other program) where journalists snuck in with box cutters?
The American TSA system is nothing but a security theater joke. It creates the illusion that full security exists to it's citizens.

Passengers in Israel don't have to take off their shoes. How does Israel do it? Why haven't they had a problem with terrorist hijackings or hijacking from Jewish extremists?

America’s TSA system to me seems more to be preoccupied with political correctness rather than common sense.
-Why should a US Senator be on a "no-fly" list or have to go through an X-ray scanner?
-Why are 90-year-old passengers in the United States forced to endure the same passenger screening levels as their more youthful counterparts?
-Why is every airport in America treating passengers the same despite differing threat vectors?
-Why are pilots screened through checkpoints in the United States despite them already having control of the plane’s fate? o_O That's really odd.

There were several interesting documentaries about these I saw on The History Channel almost 5 years ago with interviews from both American TSA officials and those at Israel's Ben Gurion Airport. I wish I can find them now.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4680653n
I almost fell off my computer chair when I saw that little 2 year old taking off her shoe at 3:01 in that video.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
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Psychology, Not Just Technology for Airport Security

By Pierre Atlas
President Obama is correct when he says that a "systemic failure" in security allowed Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to get on a Detroit-bound airliner intent on blowing it up. Better inter-agency coordination and intelligence sharing might have kept the young Nigerian terrorist from boarding the plane in either Lagos or Amsterdam. Beyond the "macro" questions of counterterrorism that have been raised by this failed attack, there is also the more mundane, micro-level question: short of strip-searching every passenger, how can we prevent another terrorist from getting past airport security with explosives sewn into his or her underwear?

After Richard Reid attempted to ignite explosives in his shoes in December 2001, everyone, regardless of how young or old, was required to remove their shoes and run them through the detection equipment at US airports. Now, in response to Abdulmutallab's actions, there is talk of acquiring multi-million dollar full-body scanners that can see through clothing, and/or physically searching every single passenger at airports. In other words, the response to this new threat might be to add more high-cost technology-placed in the hands of poorly paid and minimally trained TSA employees-or to apply another time-consuming, one-size-fits-all policy that makes no relevant distinctions between passengers.

But these are not the only options available. Every time I've flown out of Israel's Ben-Gurion Airport to return to the United States, I have been struck by its unique security procedures-they are unlike anything I have experienced at an American airport. At Ben-Gurion, the bulwark of security is not technological, but human. Everyone first waits in a single line with all their luggage in tow. An English-speaking security agent interviews each passenger while looking him or her straight in the eye. The questions can be intrusive.

Here is a typical dialogue I have experienced at Ben-Gurion Airport:
Agent: "How long were you in Israel?"
Me: "Two weeks"
Agent: "Why were you in Israel?"
Me: "Sightseeing and to visit family."
Agent: "Where did you go? What are the names of your family in Israel, and where do they live?"
The questions can become even more specific and personal. "Are you Jewish? Are you a member of a synagogue in your town, and what is the name of the synagogue? Do you speak Hebrew? Where did you learn Hebrew? Say something in Hebrew."

The airport security agent is not taking notes on what I say, and is not interested in building a file on my background or my movements in the country. The purpose is not data collection, but to see if she can trip me up. With direct eye contact, she is looking for "tells"--signs of nervousness or dishonesty. Even for a completely innocent traveler this can be a stressful encounter, and the agent seems to understand that. Not all signs of nervousness are treated alike.

On one of my trips I had also visited Jordan, and that provoked additional questioning. On another trip, when asked if my luggage had ever been out of my sight before coming to the airport, I answered honestly that it had been with the hotel concierge for a few hours. My passport was then tagged with a different-colored sticker and I was sent to the more intrusive baggage inspection station. My suitcases were carefully emptied and searched. I had been in Israel for an academic trip, and the baggage security agent flipped through my conference paper and all the books I was bringing back, asking me polite but pointed questions. Although the experience lasted less than five minutes, it was thorough--and a bit intimidating.

Israel, used to dealing with terrorism on a regular basis, is at the forefront of security research and development. But it does not put all its eggs in the high-tech basket or treat all passengers alike. From my anecdotal experiences, it seems that the front line for Israel's airport security is its well-trained personnel, armed with the prerogative to ask brief but intrusive questions and closely observe the responses. How each passenger is dealt with all depends on how he or she responded to the initial questioning. Some passengers, including those who are "profiled" for specific reasons, have their luggage thoroughly inspected by airport security and might be held for additional questioning. Others are told to simply put their suitcases on the x-ray machine's conveyor belt and head to their gate. Ben-Gurion is arguably the most secure airport in the world, yet at no time have I ever had to remove my shoes there.

The Israeli model may not be completely applicable to the United States. Israel is a small country with only one international airport. Having agents trained in basic psychology and interviewing techniques assigned to every US airport would be extremely expensive-although perhaps no more expensive than equipping each airport with new, multi-million dollar machines. There is also the question of privacy rights. How many Americans would be comfortable with TSA agents asking them personal questions while waiting in line? On the other hand, in response to the underwear bomb, we are now talking about full-body x-rays for all passengers. Having to undergo a brief "security triage" interview that is used to differentiate passengers might actually be less of a civil liberties infringement than the more hi-tech intrusions on all passengers currently being contemplated.

Since 9/11 we have seen how terrorist techniques evolve and adapt in response to new security measures. The shoe bomb was replaced by the underwear bomb. One day an explosive device might be ingested by a terrorist as the new way to avoid detection. But while the instruments of terror will continue to change, one thing will remain constant: the human element. Terrorists, regardless of how they are carrying their explosive devices, might betray their nervousness or some other "tell" under close personal scrutiny and questioning. The Israeli model may not be the complete answer for US airport security. But at least it shows us that other models exist, and are effective.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...st_technology_for_airport_security_99795.html