See if Your Doctor is on Big Pharma's Payroll

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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
this thread has gotten way off track. please, stay on topic. if you have something to bitch about and it is regards to me or how i practice, just pm me. i'll be more than happy to address your issue.

please, stay on topic.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
Eits threads are always awesome. Tries to bash real doctors and then gets owned by anyone with an ounce of medical knowledge.
 

Gibsons

Lifer
Aug 14, 2001
12,530
35
91
CaptainWin.jpg
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
don't confuse them anymore than they are.

There is probably a thread on this thread on TFNN and everyone's gotten overly giddity about it.

It's funny when nurses think they are doctors, I am sure he thinks to himself he knows more than all the doctors he knows.

Alky, I guess this is directed at me, for the record, the docs I work with are dedicated folks who work for harder and know far more, and have made more sacrifices than I.

I bow to their mad skillz. I currently work in Interventional Radiology, my docs manage to snake tiny catheters into people's organs and deliver chemo directly into tumors, and do things like seal off aneurysms with microscopic wires, catheters, coils and glue. If I ever have a stroke, I hope to god I'm close enough to a stroke center so one of these magicians can reduce my morbidity & or mortality. The interventional neurologists do shit with one hand I can't manage with two...

Anyway have a great evening Alky, I'm gonna try to muff dive a woman from Guatemala :biggrin:. I just watched Californication season 1, and am going to try to get chlamydia or venereal warts or something... Already had a nice first date with a CPA over lunch today.

regardless of whether or not it's actually safe? do you have any idea how many medicines have been taken off the market way after they were being prescribed by doctors because the research was uncovered that they were actually not safe and there were way too many people having serious or fatal side-effects?

it happens quite frequently. the pharmaceutical industry doesn't care. they're making a product and marketing it the best they can. the patient is the one that could end up suffering.

eits, you know as well as I do that drug r&d can't happen without "big pharma" making a profit, you also know that "big pharma" is a corporation, and corporations are not capable of having feeling and emotions, they are highly regulated and are data and profit driven.

Have they made mistakes? Of course.

Will they make more? You bet your ass.

Will more people die and have seriously life altering effects from drugs? Yep.

Do they save lives? Yep.

Do doctors prescribe drugs for off label purposes? Yep.

WTF do you want "big pharma" to do? They get their ass kicked and researchers killed when they use primates and higher mammals, and computer modeling only goes so far, so what they have left is human trials and monitoring after a drug is released.

The FDA is a miserable piece of crap, but it's one of the best at it's job in the world, they demand data from the manufacturers and research, did you know the FDA does no research? They review the data given them by the drug companies, it's a complicated process, and people dedicate their lives to making drugs as safe as they possibly can be.

You're a bright guy, and you're likely well aware we're on the cusp of an amazing time of genetic engineering with the human body and some godlike stuff that will happen with stem cell research, and similar technology. You and I will likely see lab grown organs in our lifetime. Repeat after me, "Tissue specific drugs are going to change the world as well."

Tell me eits, how many "patients" do you have that come in for weekly/monthly adjustments?

How exactly does chiro help children with ear infections? Aren't you concerned that you risk damaging children's hearing by causing a delay in their seeking treatment by a bona fide ENT doc? I can dig up the stats that show that's exactly what happens when myringotomies and PE tubes are delayed by even routine medical management without surgical intervention.

How exactly does chiro help people with fibromyalgia?

Honestly, I think some chiros are pretty cool, but they don't sell supplements, and they don't offer to treat illnesses that are frankly ridiculous (and IMHO morally and ethically wrong) for a chiro to treat.

I also suspect you couldn't keep your clinic's doors open without the snake oil eits, and that makes me a sad panda...
 
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Eits threads are always awesome. Tries to bash real doctors and then gets owned by anyone with an ounce of medical knowledge.

LOL you forgot your "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner

Seriously, I am not bashing medical doctors. I have nothing against them. I am against pharmaceutical companies.

Also, there wasn't any ownage. Inventing it in your heads doesn't make it a reality.

This thread isn't against medical doctors, in general. It's against medical doctors who put their patients at risk by putting Big Pharma first.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Yeah people just jump on the messenger and don't pay attention to what's being posted. In some states Chiros can prescribe medicine so I am sure this applies to his own field.

The funny thing is the D.O. rose in popularity now and treats much like a chiropractor would for many things.

There is 4 years of school for both and a 1 year period they have to perform under others direction.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
I typed this response last night, but it didn't post because of system maintenance.

eits, you know as well as I do that drug r&d can't happen without  "big pharma" making a profit, you also know that "big pharma" is a  corporation, and corporations are not capable of having feeling and  emotions, they are highly regulated and are data and profit driven.

Have they made mistakes?  Of course.

Will they make more?  You bet your ass.

Will more people die and have seriously life altering effects from drugs?  Yep.

Do they save lives?  Yep.

Do doctors prescribe drugs for off label purposes?  Yep.

WTF do you want "big pharma" to do?  They get their ass kicked and researchers killed when they use primates and higher mammals, and computer modeling only goes so far, so what they have left is human trials and monitoring after a drug is released.  

The FDA is a miserable piece of crap, but it's one of the best at it's job in the world, they demand data from the manufacturers and research, did you know the FDA does no research?  They review the data given them by the drug companies, it's a complicated process, and people dedicate their lives to making drugs as safe as they possibly can be.

You're a bright guy, and you're likely well aware we're on the cusp of an amazing time of genetic engineering with the human body and some godlike stuff that will happen with stem cell research, and similar technology.  You and I will likely see lab grown organs in our lifetime.  Repeat after me, "Tissue specific drugs are going to change the world as well."

Tell me eits, how many "patients" do you have that come in for weekly/monthly adjustments?

How exactly does chiro help children with ear infections?  Aren't you concerned that you risk damaging children's hearing by causing a delay in their seeking treatment by a bona fide ENT doc?  I can dig up the stats that show that's exactly what happens when myringotomies and PE tubes are delayed by even routine medical management without surgical intervention.

How exactly does chiro help people with fibromyalgia?

Honestly, I think some chiros are pretty cool, but they don't sell  supplements, and they don't offer to treat illnesses that are frankly  ridiculous (and IMHO morally and ethically wrong) for a chiro to treat.

I also suspect you couldn't keep your clinic's doors open without the snake oil eits, and that makes me a sad panda...

pliable, i appreciate your reply and i also appreciate you, for the first time that i can recall, asking how i practice rather than lumping me in with a negative preconceived notion towards other practitioners in my field.

you're right... big pharma does do good things, but they also do evil things.  i can't turn a blind eye towards a giant that hides, distorts, and fabricates research in order to make a buck at the health of patients.

i'm not against all kinds of medicines, but i do think that they promote sickness in this country.  my goal as a doctor is to get people well and living healthier.  medicating patients has just gone wild and i don't thing that putting blinders on and ignoring how to get people healthy is the answer.

most of the patients i see come in for musculoskeletal problems (rib pain syndrome, restless leg syndrome, low back pain, headaches, etc.).  as you saw on my website, there's a process i have for new patients (hx and consult, exam, x-ray, rof) and depending on the problem, age of the patient, severity of the structural misalignment, degree of degeneration, i'd recommend that they get adjusted anywhere from 2-5 times a week (most of the time, it's only 3 times a week) for about 4 weeks.  after 12 visits, i do a re-evaluation, where i consult, exam, and shoot x-rays and i go over my findings with the patient and show them whether or not there's been any improvement based on subjective and objective findings.  if there's no benefit whatsoever and no change on the x-rays, i tell them that there's nothing more i can do for them and that if, in all honestly, they'd just be wasting their money if they continued to come in.  then, i'd refer them to a couple of the orthos and neuros with whom i consult.

ultimately, my goal is to treat patients, get them better, and send them back to living life better than they were when they first started seeing me.  i'm opposed to patients coming in every week or every couple weeks for the rest of their lives, because that means that i'm not doing my job.  the last thing i want is someone saying that they've been seeing me for months and not have any idea why whenever a friend of theirs asks.  i want to fix patients so that when they are hanging out with their friends and their friends ask how they got better, they can say that they saw me and i got them healthy.  then, they become a good word-of-mouth referral source.

i like for patients that have reached maximum improvement to come in every 6 weeks or so just to keep things in check and make sure the problem isn't coming back and to make sure that the patient is continuing their home exercises.

as for ear infections, i treat them very effectively, but only when they're ome.  if a patient or parent brings their kid to me, i check their ears, make sure it's ome and not aom, then i adjust c1.  based on c1's alignment, it could cause some soft tissue differences around the eustacian tubes, which can cause a blockage of drainage.  once c1 is back in order, it drains normally and the infection's gone by the next day.  easysauce.  sometimes, i drop some tea tree oil in their ears and flush them after a few minutes... it's a natural antibacterial and it's completely safe with no side effects. my future step-son's pediatrician actually refers some ome patients to me (the boy had chronic ear infections until I treated him. no more ear infections or diarrhea from constant antibiotics... seriously, he'd get them like once or twice a month... it was horrible)

as for the supplements i had on the table at my booth, those were vitamin k2-d3 supplements.  i figured since it's fall and there's not as much sunlight (hence the reason it becomes cold and flu season), i might as well try and help people fight off colds and flus by offering it.

i try and treat the entire body and not just focus on the spine.  health is more than just proper function of the spine and nerves... it's also cellular.  i promote healthy dieting, proper exercise routines for desired results, decreased physical, chemical, and emotional stress, proper supplementation, and increased awareness for key risk factors i find on any patients medical health history.  for example, patients with bph and haven't had a physical in years, patients i suspect have hypothyroidism, patients with arterial plaquing visible on x-ray (and don't have diabetes), etc.

my view of healthcare is that there's a need for medicine, chiropractic, and physical therapy and that relying on one more heavily than others can be a mistake.  as far as spinal alignment is concerned, the analogy i give my patients is that physical therapy exercises are like a course tuner on a microscope and chiropractic adjusting is the fine tuning of a microscope.  if you do only one, you might eventually get to where you want to be, but it'll take a lot longer.

i hope this somewhat clears a bit about how i treat patients.  basically, the way i view it is this... most people are concerned about managing disease, but they never realize that the best way to treat a disease is to not get the disease in the first place.  if you can't take the time or afford prevention, how the hell are you going to afford disease?  that's where i come in.
 
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eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uD_JPtsP-Q

eits, you totally misunderstood me, I think Penn & Teller say it best.

What's the name of their show? Oh yeah, "Bullshit"

i've seen it. funny stuff.

i don't fully understand what i misunderstood. i answered your question. can you please better explain what you were looking for? because if it's for me to give you an answer that follows your paradigm, i don't think that'll happen. so, please, explain to me what you're looking for when you asked me the question in your previous post if it's something other than the answer i gave you.

also, penn jillett is entitled to his opinion. by finding some out-there chiropractor who believes things that are easy to laugh at and then having someone else to portray the more "common sense" approach of the debate, he forces the viewer to broadly generalize what chiropractic is and to have a black or white point of view about it. it's his job.

furthermore, it's my opinion that basing your point of view on a tv show that a magician says is bullshit. i figured a person of your intelligence might have at least understood that. the guy hasn't done any research, has had no anecdotal evidence, hasn't learned anything about anatomy or physiology, etc. to agree with whatever he says just because he's right on a lot of things is silly.

can we please get back on topic? if you have any other questions, can you just pm me instead? this is getting ridiculous (as nick pointed out... you guys just follow me wherever i post and completely derail the thread for no purpose other than to cover-up the subject matter in the op and potential ensuing discussion).
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
Other gems from the OP.

http://forums.anandtech.com/search.php?searchid=574333

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2060219&highlight=

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2058946&highlight=

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2056607

Notice how they end up locked. I wonder how long for this one...

It's like he doesn't get it. Every thread he makes regarding medicine turns into the same thing.

all you've shown is that you and the band of closed-minded trollers like trying to cover up the discussion because it might change your way of thinking. what you do is kinda like the whole swarm mentality thing people who watch fox news do... change the discussion and try and discredit enough so people completely forget what the original topic of discussion was in the first place.
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
all you've shown is that you and the band of closed-minded trollers like trying to cover up the discussion because it might change your way of thinking. what you do is kinda like the whole swarm mentality thing people who watch fox news do... change the discussion and try and discredit enough so people completely forget what the original topic of discussion was in the first place.

Uh huh. Only fools believe in chiro's.

/thread