See if Your Doctor is on Big Pharma's Payroll

[alkemyst]

Like I said, he doesn't know one thing about anything. Talking out of his ass is alkemyst's specialty

I never said D.O.s didn't specialize.

 

[eits]

Oh im sure quite a few medicines over the years have had nasty side effects.
One in particular that i remember over here was a drug called Thalidomide. Babies were being born with no arms/legs...just aweful!

You know eits sometimes its tough, for a patient to get some form of treatment.
If your a patient in pain and suffering, years is a long intolerable time to have to wait.
My conditions are rare and even rare to have together. Im an unlucky sod i guess.

I cant expect the Drs and pharma companies to know how some presumed safe drugs will be for someone such as me to take. Nevermind to be able to fully test future treatments, before i get them.

For several years now i have taken a very toxic drug. Im not even to touch the actual tablets, but i have to swallow. I wont say it was an easy choice to make, if i did i would be lying. Over the years, Drs have offered me, operations, sprays, tablets and very painful infusions.
Some things i said yes to. Other things i said hell no to.

Never have i got the impression that they only do all of this, because some company is paying them back handers or incentives to prescribe or use their products. More than likely thats going on, but I genuinely do believe they are trying to help me fight a battle.
I thank them kindly for that each and everytime i see them.

In a sense im a guinnea pig for them. I have accepted that whole heartedly and report anything odd right away. It has not been unusual for me to suffer some adverse side effects and treatment has had to be totally stopped. Now thats either been at my request or sometimes they pull the plug.
Then on the other side of the coin some treatments have worked fantastically well.

Your right, at times i have and in the future, may end up suffering by trying out these products. Its a price im willing to pay.
At the moment im watching the news closely, on the patients who have one of my conditions and are willingly participating in stem cell trials. Some of them will die on this trial, my heart goes out to them and their families.
My reason for telling you this is, that we cant always have the best, safe route options.
Medical science just aint that clever....yet.

First off, good luck, man. Be proud of your courage. Most of us would cry and piss ourselves while we died.

Secondly, I said Big Pharma does good this too, this being one of those good things.

The thing is that you have a disease and are targeting the disease with a treatment where you know fully the risks and alternatives. Other people may not and it's not because the drug companies made a mistake, it's because they knew the flaws and hid the facts in the name of making a profit. Doctors are so busy these days and struggling to get paid their worth that enticing them with money, gifts, etc to peddle whatever new designer drug is big makes things easier. It's wrong. People could end up with certain side effects and doctors don't know because the research has been tampered with.

 

[Bignate603]

I could believe that chiropractors could help with some back pain or things like that but when they start claiming they can treat ADHD or use homeopathic mixtures to solve issues they lose credibility.

If I remember correctly Eits' website used to advertise homeopathic treatment. He admits now that they don't work, but yet he rags on big pharma for releasing a drug and then later recalling it? Sounds like he did the same thing. Its funny how he holds pharmaceutical companies to a different standard than himself yet claims to offer superior medical treatment.

 

[eits]

I could believe that chiropractors could help with some back pain or things like that but when they start claiming they can treat ADHD or use homeopathic mixtures to solve issues they lose credibility.

If I remember correctly Eits' website used to advertise homeopathic treatment. He admits now that they don't work, but yet he rags on big pharma for releasing a drug and then later recalling it? Sounds like he did the same thing. Its funny how he holds pharmaceutical companies to a different standard than himself yet claims to offer superior medical treatment.

I don't sell homeopathy. Never did. What you saw was a mistake by the guy building my site. As soon as it was pointed out, I contacted him and had him remove it.

Let's just say for sake of this particular argument that I did sell homeopathy. It doesn't kill people or give serious side effects. There's a big difference.

Also, I think you need to read the blog post about ADHD more carefully.

 

[Gibsons]

Will do how much

Packs have Vitamin D 400 I.U I take 2.
Packs have K 20 mcg I take 2.

Lysine none. Thanks again,

You've got enough vitamins in your urine to supplement a small city.

If you eat meat on a regular basis at all, you're getting plenty of Lysine.

 

[Gibsons]

I don't sell homeopathy. Never did. What you saw was a mistake by the guy building my site. As soon as it was pointed out, I contacted him and had him remove it.

Let's just say for sake of this particular argument that I did sell homeopathy. It doesn't kill people or give serious side effects. There's a big difference.

Also, I think you need to read the blog post about ADHD more carefully.

It's unethical and may prevent them from seeking real treatment. And you have endorsed homeopathy on these very forums. Maybe it was 'the guy' who built your site, you are still responsible for it. You might want to revisit the HFCS article on your site as well, perhaps he's responsible for the errors of fact and half-truths on it?

 

[Pliablemoose]

Let's just say for sake of this particular argument that I did sell homeopathy. It doesn't kill people or give serious side effects. There's a big difference.

Also, I think you need to read the blog post about ADHD more carefully.

LOL, homeopathy does and has killed people, quite a few actually.

Your website says that you treat ADHD by spine adjustments.

ADD/ADHD in kids doesn't have to be controlled with stimulant medication. Often times, it has to do with a misalignment of the neck. In order for a child's brain and nervous system to develop properly, it needs the structural integrity and motion constantly. Proper spinal biomechanics plays a major role in making someone feel good on a chemical level in the brain.

Personal story time: I grew up with ADD, so it was easy for me to see the signs and understand why a kid with ADD/ADHD does what they do. My girlfriend's daughter, who is 9 years old now, had a very tough time focusing, sitting still, concentrating, following directions, and remembering things. She was in even put into remedial reading. She had classic ADD/ADHD symptoms. However, after I evaluated her, she had some significant spinal deviations that I adjusted. She now focuses very well, follows directions, doesn't forget things nearly as much, sits down in her seat at school and during dinner, and is in the top reading group for her class. It only took a month, but every so often, I make sure everything's still in good working order.

 

[eits]

It's unethical and may prevent them from seeking real treatment. And you have endorsed homeopathy on these very forums. Maybe it was 'the guy' who built your site, you are still responsible for it. You might want to revisit the HFCS article on your site as well, perhaps he's responsible for the errors of fact and half-truths on it?

this is a non-argument, considering how i am not a practitioner of homeopathy. to my knowledge, i've never endorsed homeopathy, either. if i did, i must have been mistaken.

as for the hfcs threads, i don't know what you mean by half-truths. you don't think there's a difference between hfcs and sucrose and i do. i really am not interested in getting into that cyclical debate again.

 

[alkemyst]

Wow at this thread. Many MD/DO's are recommending holistic non-pharmaceutical approaches today.

Also it's almost like everyone forget how many doctor's get sued everyday for malpractice when talking about chiropractors.

Probably 90% in this thread wouldn't know proper treatment from malpractice anyway.

 

[eits]

LOL, homeopathy does and has killed people, quite a few actually.

Your website says that you treat ADHD by spine adjustments.

how has it? by keeping them from getting proper care? that's really the only way i could imagine water and little alcohol killing someone.

and, you're right. my website does say that i can treat adhd by adjusting the spine. again, thank you for noticing.

the blog also says that there's a difference between true adhd and adhd symptoms. i can't treat true adhd because it's an issue with the asymmetry of the ventricles in the brain. however, some kids exhibit adhd symptoms, which can be treated without the use of adhd meds.

after a trial of treatment, some kids will need adhd medication and some won't. my future daughter is one of the kids i've treated who won't need to be on adhd meds.

based on your paradigm and how you view this discussion, i can understand your skepticism. there's not enough good research about it yet... mainly anecdotal stuff and case studies. nothing that involves diagnostic brain imaging and chiropractic care. and i'm sure your view is that if there isn't enough sound research on something, then it shouldn't be done. well, i disagree with that point of view if it's something you know is safe (or at least safer than adhd medication) and may be effective in treating the problem.

whether you think it's placebo or not is pretty inconsequential to me. placebo is a fact of healthcare, whether it's chiropractic or medical. if the patient gets desired results, it doesn't matter to them if it was the placebo effect that did it. with that said, do i think that chiropractic care is mainly placebo? no.

 

[eits]

Will do how much

Packs have Vitamin D 400 I.U I take 2.
Packs have K 20 mcg I take 2.

Lysine none. Thanks again,

i usually recommend 5000iu d3 and 240mcg k2 daily in the fall and winter months.

500mg of lysine 4x/daily as well.

 

[slayer202]

LOL are you kidding?

I don't bash medical doctors. I bash Big Pharma.

Also, I don't hide my identity at all. And my url was registered through godaddy.com.

You can research me all you like.

what does bashing "big pharma" have to do with your chiropractic business? as in, why are you posting that shit on your facebook page

 

[Pliablemoose]

eits, I'm done with this thread.

And no more pm's please, I don't want to discuss any of this stuff with you one on one, the point of my posts is for other members.

I'd love to start a poll about what ATOT thinks of chiro, but I suspect it'd be considered a personal attack, perhaps you would start one so you can get a feel about what people think of chiro.

Have a good day eits and enjoy looking in the mirror every morning, the guy looking back at you is you.

 

[eits]

what does bashing "big pharma" have to do with your chiropractic business? as in, why are you posting that shit on your facebook page

i post important health-related articles i find for people to look at and learn more about. there are plenty of articles i've posted that aren't specifically chiropractic related. that doesn't mean i shouldn't share them with people. health is health. i don't only treat the spine, i try and address the entire body.

 

[Gibsons]

this is a non-argument, considering how i am not a practitioner of homeopathy. to my knowledge, i've never endorsed homeopathy, either. if i did, i must have been mistaken.

as for the hfcs threads, i don't know what you mean by half-truths. you don't think there's a difference between hfcs and sucrose and i do. i really am not interested in getting into that cyclical debate again.

You did. Your previous excuse was that you "hadn't formed your paradigms yet," or some similar nonsense. Now it's the guy who built your website.

As for HFCS, I'm not talking about threads, I'm talking about your blog. It includes an outright fallacy and presents a very misleading half truth.

 

[eits]

eits, I'm done with this thread.

And no more pm's please, I don't want to discuss any of this stuff with you one on one, the point of my posts is for other members.

I'd love to start a poll about what ATOT thinks of chiro, but I suspect it'd be considered a personal attack, perhaps you would start one so you can get a feel about what people think of chiro.

Have a good day eits and enjoy looking in the mirror every morning, the guy looking back at you is you.

although i'm disappointed to hear you don't care to discuss your issues with chiropractic or me, personally, and you'd rather adhere to your preconceived notions without any added knowledge to make a more informed opinion, i appreciate your level of civility/politeness throughout this thread.

i respect your wish to not discuss anything in pm, so i won't bug you further about it.

there are plenty of chiropractic threads you can sift through to find who the proponents and opponents are. you'll find that a vast majority of opponents have never been to a chiropractor, yet attack it with blind skepticism, and a majority of proponents have gone or know people who have gone to see a chiropractor.

take care of yourself. and thank you for reminding me to take the time to look in the mirror and be proud of myself... sometimes, whenever i look in the mirror, i'm more preoccupied with looking to make sure my hair looks good, teeth are cleen, beard is trimmed, and where i've put on a couple pounds (especially after thanksgiving lol ).

i'm sure i'll see you around. take care, man.

 

[eits]

You did. Your previous excuse was that you "hadn't formed your paradigms yet," or some similar nonsense. Now it's the guy who built your website.

As for HFCS, I'm not talking about threads, I'm talking about your blog. It includes an outright fallacy and presents a very misleading half truth.

i'm confused... what's the guy who built my website? are you implying that i'm the guy who built my website? because he's a personal friend of mine (he's going to be one of my groomsmen) and he's built a few websites for other colleagues, some of which do sell homeopathic preparations. he figured i'd want it on my site since it's been successful with the other chiropractors... he was just trying to be helpful. however, i told him i didn't want it on my site because it's controversial and i didn't want to be involved with it.

the only time i can ever recall favoring a homeopathic product is zicam

as for my blog post, i understand what your complaints were about the research conducted at princeton university. however, i'm going by what was written rather than what the graph showed. the fact remains that physiologically, it makes sense that hfcs is worse than sucrose. eventually, you'll start seeing more and more research that shows it.

 

[Gibsons]

I'm surprised the dog didn't eat your homework. Good to know your colleagues sell homeopathic snake oil.

 

[eits]

I'm surprised the dog didn't eat your homework. Good to know your colleagues sell homeopathic snake oil.

some do, some don't. not how i practice, so it's not my problem. there are some medical doctors who sell homeopathic remedies to patients, too. http://homeopathic-md-do.com/Areas.html

i'm not going to crawl up their asses and tell them what to do or what not to do if they honestly believe that what they're doing is the right thing and what they're doing works. i say my piece (which is typically cautionary, never ridicule or name-calling), and then i leave it at that.

 

[Gibsons]

some do, some don't. not how i practice, so it's not my problem. there are some medical doctors who sell homeopathic remedies to patients, too. http://homeopathic-md-do.com/Areas.html

i'm not going to crawl up their asses and tell them what to do or what not to do if they honestly believe that what they're doing is the right thing and what they're doing works. i say my piece (which is typically cautionary, never ridicule or name-calling), and then i leave it at that.

You've endorsed it too eits.

 

[eits]

You've endorsed it too eits.

I don't recall ever knowingly endorsing homeopathy. I don't know what you're looking for in this circular conversation, but I never knowingly endorsed a practice that is based on diluting poisons many, many, many times using a specific way of shaking the solution in order for it to treat illnesses.

 

[Gibsons]

I don't recall ever knowingly endorsing homeopathy. I don't know what you're looking for in this circular conversation, but I never knowingly endorsed a practice that is based on diluting poisons many, many, many times using a specific way of shaking the solution in order for it to treat illnesses.

Of course you don't remember it.

What am I looking for? I know this is probably hopeless, but here goes.

What I'm looking for is for you to realize the difference between your opinion and knowledge. That your opinion isn't fact. That the way to proceed is to gather the data, then form an opinion. Not form an opinion then look to google for support. You're probably thinking right now "but I don't do that!" Think again.

Maybe you didn't realize it, but this thread looks like a desperate, pathetic attempt to lend credibility to yourself and your profession by attempting to discredit another. You really shouldn't be surprised at the respone. Yeah, I know: "That's not what I meant!" Too bad, that's really what it looks like, that's the main reason why you're taking so much flak. This time.

If you'd like to avoid being flamed quite so regularly, you could at least learn to qualify your opinions. It's not hard. Your smug certitude and baseless confidence in your opinion is one of the the reasons your trolling threads have been flamed and eventually locked. If you'd simply qualified your opinion in the HFCS thread(s), things would have gone much better for everyone. When you're stating opinions things as a fact (take a very careful look at your blog, you do it there too), and other people know you're either just guessing or are flat out wrong, you're going to catch it.

Maybe you have good intentions, but you're blinded by overconfidence, I don't know. Either way, it's not hard to say "I think x leads to y." When you simply state "x leads to y" and it's either completely unsupported or there's a link provided that doesn't support it, you're probably going to hear about it (no that's not about this thread in particular).

Finally, since I'm so full of advice today, for fucks sake learn to use the caps key.

 

[Bignate603]

I don't recall ever knowingly endorsing homeopathy. I don't know what you're looking for in this circular conversation, but I never knowingly endorsed a practice that is based on diluting poisons many, many, many times using a specific way of shaking the solution in order for it to treat illnesses.

yup. i'm gonna be a chiropractor. after checking out med school, i was uninterested in the idea of drugging people to cure symptoms without curing the real problem. whenever i checked up on chiropractic, it makes more sense... you restore proper nerve flow to an affected area and let the body's innate ability to heal itself do the trick. sometimes i wish i was back in med school just because it was so much easier than chiropractic school... chiropractic requires a 5-year doctorate (the schooling is almost the exact same as med school, except harder, longer, and you learn adjustment techniques... and the paradigm is different; allopathic model = atomistic.... homeopathic model = vitalistic) and 4 national board exams before a state board exam.... also, because the medical community has been tossing propaganda about chiropractic around since the 1920s, chiropractors have to go above and beyond the bar to prove themselves as legitimate and negate the propaganda.

Eits talking about homeopathy

 

[Gibsons]

Eits talking about homeopathy

Wasn't terribly hard to find, was it?

If his memory wasn't so bad, he might remember that post. Or his later response to it:

that was 2005, dumbass. i hadn't even had a chance to explore my own paradigm yet.

 

[eits]

Of course you don't remember it.

What am I looking for? I know this is probably hopeless, but here goes.

What I'm looking for is for you to realize the difference between your opinion and knowledge. That your opinion isn't fact. That the way to proceed is to gather the data, then form an opinion. Not form an opinion then look to google for support. You're probably thinking right now "but I don't do that!" Think again.

Maybe you didn't realize it, but this thread looks like a desperate, pathetic attempt to lend credibility to yourself and your profession by attempting to discredit another. You really shouldn't be surprised at the respone. Yeah, I know: "That's not what I meant!" Too bad, that's really what it looks like, that's the main reason why you're taking so much flak. This time.

If you'd like to avoid being flamed quite so regularly, you could at least learn to qualify your opinions. It's not hard. Your smug certitude and baseless confidence in your opinion is one of the the reasons your trolling threads have been flamed and eventually locked. If you'd simply qualified your opinion in the HFCS thread(s), things would have gone much better for everyone. When you're stating opinions things as a fact (take a very careful look at your blog, you do it there too), and other people know you're either just guessing or are flat out wrong, you're going to catch it.

Maybe you have good intentions, but you're blinded by overconfidence, I don't know. Either way, it's not hard to say "I think x leads to y." When you simply state "x leads to y" and it's either completely unsupported or there's a link provided that doesn't support it, you're probably going to hear about it (no that's not about this thread in particular).

Finally, since I'm so full of advice today, for fucks sake learn to use the caps key.

lol i appreciate your response. thank you.

i don't capitalize. the capitalizations in my posts throughout this thread have been because i was responding through my phone and it automatically capitalizes. i dunno, it's just never been a "thing" of mine to capitalize. i mean, i know how to properly capitalize, like when and where to capitalize, but i think that because i taught myself to type via trivia chatrooms in yahoo (where it wasn't necessary in order to be the first with the correct response) and because microsoft word almost always capitalized for me, i never really needed to... that's not to say i don't know proper capitalization; it was drilled into my head as a kid from my mom, who was a former english teacher.

back to your point: i understand what you mean and i'll be more careful in how i choose my words in the future. you're right in asserting that most of the time, i come across as stating something as a fact when i actually mean that it's an opinion.

also, i don't see anything wrong with thinking something and then trying to find support with the facts. the hypothesis had to have come from someplace to begin with, whether it be anecdote or a "lightbulb" or whatever. finding support for it thereafter is normally how it's done. however, that's why i'm not a researcher and you are. you've got the brain for that... that's why you do what you do; you're good at it. just like i do what i do... because i'm good at it.

my threads/posts aren't always so cocksure as you think they are, though. you say that my "unfounded opinions" are the reason i get flamed. i disagree. firstly, i think a few of my opinions are sometimes unpopular, but not unfounded. just because there hasn't been enough good, unbiased research to prove or disprove my point of view doesn't make it wrong. for decades, chiropractors have been claiming that children's cold medicine is bad for them and people like you and others (no offense) would ridicule them constantly for that. finally, decades later, you hear the fda say that children's cold medicine is potentially harmful to kids under 2 years of age. imagine how many kids would have lived had they not had the cold medicine. so, i hope you can understand why i'm reluctant to strictly adhere to research as fact, the way you do, when it's completely counter-intuitive to what makes sense physiologically because, in many cases, down the road, new research will show otherwise.