Say what you will, but Tebow freaking wins.

[RearAdmiral]

If Tebow gets a ring, the noise is going to get worse.

That will be the sound of the seventh seal of heaven breaking.

 

[Squisher]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jimmy-fallon-merges-tim-tebow-david-bowie-163308764.html

 

[AMDZen]

Anyone know who the #1 quarterback in the NFL per passing attempt in air yards is? Who was the #1 most efficient deep ball passer in the NFL in the 2011 regular season?

Answer: Tim Tebow 12.3 yards per attempt.

We know some people are now saying that the reason he did so good against the Steelers is because of all those yards after catch on the final play but this says he's #1 for the 2011 season in the air. That means no yards after catch are taken into consideration. Just what these quarterbacks actually throw for in the air.

NEXT LEVEL: The Steelers allowed 7.8 yards per attempt on passes that traveled 15 yards or more in the air during the regular season, best in the NFL. Tim Tebow, the NFL leader in air yards per attempt (12.3 air yards/att), took advantage of a beat up Steelers defense without safety Ryan Clark for the entire game and defensive linemen Casey Hampton and Brett Kiesel for most of the game and aired it out deep.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=320108007

Funny ESPN tucks this stat away in some small blog and never talks about it on TV. You gotta read the small research note on the right side of the page to see this. How come they never talk about this and keep harping on completion %? Or how about Denver being 32nd in dropped passes? Maybe if Brees, Manning or Rodgers lead the league in air yards efficiency they would be more willing to discuss it, but they don't. I don't think they even lead the league in total air yards. It's a whole different set of quarterbacks and last time I could dig up this stat, Eli was the top QB in actual air passing yards. But we can't make Eli look better than his brother or Brees, now can we? That would just upset too many people, right?

We all know it's great that Drew Brees threw for a lot of total yards and so did Dan Marino, and not to take anything away from them, but if you are a smart football fan and player you also know that ranking passers by total yards is a little bit deceiving and so does the NFL but they have yet to actually separate the two. How many times a coach decides to call passing plays as well as how much receivers run after they catch the ball significantly affect these stats. Those guys as well as others get a lot of credit for a lot of work their receivers do and the style of offenses those teams run. 2 yard completions that go for 30-40 yards; 15 yards completions that go for 85 yards, etc, etc.

Just saying....

#1 in the NFL in yards efficiency in AIR yards.
#1 in the NFL this season in his first 8 games as a starter in interception efficiency
#1 in the NFL in history in yards per completion in a playoff game
#1 passer rating in Broncos post season history(sorry Elway)
#1 rushing offense in the NFL after Tebow started as a QB
#1 Total Quarterback rating against the Steelers in the rating's history. No one has ever scored a 93.7 in ESPN's Total QBR rating.
-longest pass play in playoff history, tied with Elway, but Tim's was in OT in his first NFL playoff game...
-6, 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives, including one in OT in the playoffs(7 if you count Oakland)

Pretty good for a running back who's inefficient at the quarterback positioneh? So how can Tim Tebow be inefficient as a quarterback and passer yet be one of the most efficient quarterbacks and passers in the NFL at the same time? Hmm...

I do want to say to the doubters out there that some really sound ridiculous. I mean do some people seriously believe that a quarterback who is very efficient and accurate throwing the deep ball is less accurate throwing short passes? Just wrap your head around that statement for a second.

Really? REALLY? Tim is more accurate throwing a 50 yard bomb than he is throwing a 10 yard pass? Has the hating completely brainwashed people from having any kind of common sense? If you have ever thrown a football, have you ever missed your target by 4 yards when throwing a 10 yard pass with no one interfering with it? How hard do you have to try to miss someone by 4 yards when he's 10 yards away? Do some honestly believe those are misses by pro NFL quarterbacks due to accuracy issues? Unless they are being tackled while throwing, throwing off the back foot or throwing while slipping, or maybe them and their receivers completely screw up the play those aren't "misses" due to accuracy. They are incompletions, but they have little to nothing to do with accuracy. Same for completion %.

So now what haters are basically left with is Tebow sucks as a passer because he's not in a west coast style offense so he doesn't get to throw the ball 35 times a game for 3-5 yard completions and have a 65+% completion percentage. Ok well, unless John Fox decides to become a fan of the west coast style offense, or they draft some more physical receivers that can get them lots of yards after catch(perhaps a running back that can catch or a very physical tight end)that's one Tebow and the Broncos are probably going to have to live with.

I'm really not sure why you would ever want to trade the #1 rushing offense in the NFL and the #1 most efficient deep ball passing offense in the NFL, who just proved they can burn the #1 defense for more passing yards than anyone else this season for a west coast style offense but maybe some haters out there will explain that. Personally, I am really looking forward to watching Tim in 2012 with a full off-season, a re-vamped offense that's built around him, west coast or not, and a few more pieces falling into the puzzle.

 

[IAteYourMother]

anyone know who the #1 quarterback in the nfl per passing attempt in air yards is? Who was the #1 most efficient deep ball passer in the nfl in the 2011 regular season?

Answer: Tim tebow 12.3 yards per attempt.

We know some people are now saying that the reason he did so good against the steelers is because of all those yards after catch on the final play but this says he's #1 for the 2011 season in the air. That means no yards after catch are taken into consideration. Just what these quarterbacks actually throw for in the air.



http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameid=320108007

funny espn tucks this stat away in some small blog and never talks about it on tv. You gotta read the small research note on the right side of the page to see this. How come they never talk about this and keep harping on completion %? Or how about denver being 32nd in dropped passes? Maybe if brees, manning or rodgers lead the league in air yards efficiency they would be more willing to discuss it, but they don't. I don't think they even lead the league in total air yards. It's a whole different set of quarterbacks and last time i could dig up this stat, eli was the top qb in actual air passing yards. But we can't make eli look better than his brother or brees, now can we? That would just upset too many people, right?

We all know it's great that drew brees threw for a lot of total yards and so did dan marino, and not to take anything away from them, but if you are a smart football fan and player you also know that ranking passers by total yards is a little bit deceiving and so does the nfl but they have yet to actually separate the two. How many times a coach decides to call passing plays as well as how much receivers run after they catch the ball significantly affect these stats. Those guys as well as others get a lot of credit for a lot of work their receivers do and the style of offenses those teams run. 2 yard completions that go for 30-40 yards; 15 yards completions that go for 85 yards, etc, etc.

Just saying....

#1 in the nfl in yards efficiency in air yards.
#1 in the nfl this season in his first 8 games as a starter in interception efficiency
#1 in the nfl in history in yards per completion in a playoff game
#1 passer rating in broncos post season history(sorry elway)
#1 rushing offense in the nfl after tebow started as a qb
#1 total quarterback rating against the steelers in the rating's history. No one has ever scored a 93.7 in espn's total qbr rating.
-longest pass play in playoff history, tied with elway, but tim's was in ot in his first nfl playoff game...
-6, 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives, including one in ot in the playoffs(7 if you count oakland)

pretty good for a running back who's inefficient at the quarterback positioneh? so how can tim tebow be inefficient as a quarterback and passer yet be one of the most efficient quarterbacks and passers in the nfl at the same time? Hmm...

I do want to say to the doubters out there that some really sound ridiculous. I mean do some people seriously believe that a quarterback who is very efficient and accurate throwing the deep ball is less accurate throwing short passes? Just wrap your head around that statement for a second.

Really? Really? Tim is more accurate throwing a 50 yard bomb than he is throwing a 10 yard pass? Has the hating completely brainwashed people from having any kind of common sense? If you have ever thrown a football, have you ever missed your target by 4 yards when throwing a 10 yard pass with no one interfering with it? How hard do you have to try to miss someone by 4 yards when he's 10 yards away? Do some honestly believe those are misses by pro nfl quarterbacks due to accuracy issues? Unless they are being tackled while throwing, throwing off the back foot or throwing while slipping, or maybe them and their receivers completely screw up the play those aren't "misses" due to accuracy. They are incompletions, but they have little to nothing to do with accuracy. Same for completion %.

So now what haters are basically left with is tebow sucks as a passer because he's not in a west coast style offense so he doesn't get to throw the ball 35 times a game for 3-5 yard completions and have a 65+% completion percentage. Ok well, unless john fox decides to become a fan of the west coast style offense, or they draft some more physical receivers that can get them lots of yards after catch(perhaps a running back that can catch or a very physical tight end)that's one tebow and the broncos are probably going to have to live with.

I'm really not sure why you would ever want to trade the #1 rushing offense in the nfl and the #1 most efficient deep ball passing offense in the nfl, who just proved they can burn the #1 defense for more passing yards than anyone else this season for a west coast style offense but maybe some haters out there will explain that. Personally, i am really looking forward to watching tim in 2012 with a full off-season, a re-vamped offense that's built around him, west coast or not, and a few more pieces falling into the puzzle.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, Tim Tebow was 28th in the NFL for YPA with 6.38! Worse than... MARK SANCHEZ.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt/seasontype/2

 

[IAteYourMother]

I should clarify, why do air yards per attempt mean anything when you can barely complete enough passes to beat out Mark Sanchez in YPA?? I could beat Tim Tebow's AYPA just by throwing the ball 20 yards down the field every attempt, woop-dee-fucking-do.

I'm not Tim Tebow hater, I promise, but this is getting out of control.

 

[Capt Caveman]

#1 passer rating in Broncos post season history(sorry Elway)

This is too funny. After one playoff game. Sorry, I'll take Elway in a playoff game if I had to choose.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Really? REALLY? Tim is more accurate throwing a 50 yard bomb than he is throwing a 10 yard pass?

Is he more accurate on long passes in the sense that he gets closer to where he's aiming? Of course not (though he does have a little bit of Chuck Knoblach Syndrome). Is he more effective throwing long passes than short ones, especially with the coverage that Pittsburgh gave him? Absolutely.

Throwing long and throwing short are two different skill sets. As an example (as a Pats fan), I'll compare Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady, circa 2001. DB had a cannon for an arm, and thought nothing of hucking it 30 yards down field, but couldn't hit the short passes in the 5-15 yard range to save his life. Tom Brady, on the other hand, couldn't toss is more than 20 yards without it wobbling like a duck, but was the master of those short throws.

The difference? Coverage is much tighter on those short throws, meaning that you have a much narrower window in which to throw. Furthermore, the throws get there so quick that the QB has to throw it where the receiver will be, as it's hard for the receiver to adjust to the ball. Long throws, by comparison, take longer to get there, and generally have a lot less defensive traffic around them. This means that you don't have to throw as accurately, and a lot more emphasis is placed on the receiver's ability to separate from the defender and run to where the ball is going to be.

Now, in TT's case, look at the highlights on those long throws. As I mentioned earlier, the Steelers ran an inverted Cover-2, which meant that the corners got no safety help on deep slants and go routes. Thus, those passes were about the receivers getting open deep and TT being able to throw far enough far more than it was about true accuracy.

Now that I've brought things back to the sane world, let me give credit where it's due: The Steelers ran that defense because they wanted to stop TT and McGahee's running at all costs. TT's value as a pure passer is still very low. It is only when you combine his passing game with his running that he becomes an NFL-caliber starter. The combination is effective as long as the score stays relatively low. He runs into problems, just as the 49ers and Ravens do, when a team is able to get a couple touchdown lead on them.

As I've made very clear, I hope TT has a future in this league, as he (and a few more spread option QBs) would make the NFL far more interesting. Don't try to pretend that he's the greatest pure thrower since Johnny Unitas, though, just because he had one very effective game against a normally good defense.

 

[AMDZen]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, Tim Tebow was 28th in the NFL for YPA with 6.38! Worse than... MARK SANCHEZ.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt/seasontype/2

Good to see you can read

I should clarify, why do air yards per attempt mean anything when you can barely complete enough passes to beat out Mark Sanchez in YPA?? I could beat Tim Tebow's AYPA just by throwing the ball 20 yards down the field every attempt, woop-dee-fucking-do.

I'm not Tim Tebow hater, I promise, but this is getting out of control.

Again, good to see you can read. Maybe you're just not smart enough to figure out what I was talking about.

All of these downfield plays are low percentage plays. If you had Tom Brady going this far down the field to get completions, then his completion percentage would be down too. He also throws it away more than others to avoid turnovers.

I really think completion percentage is a totally misleading stat, not just for Tebow but for all QB's. Which is the underlying message really.

 

[JujuFish]

I really think completion percentage is a totally misleading stat, not just for Tebow but for all QB's. Which is the underlying message really.

And yet you think yards per attempt isn't, when you only complete 10 passes while throwing deep every time? Do you know who had that record before Tebow? Charlie Conerly in 1956, who only completed 7 passes for the record. Let's see Tebow break the record while throwing 25-30 completions.

Also, the longest pass in playoff history is 96 yards by Trent Dilfer in 2000.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Good to see you can read



Again, good to see you can read. Maybe you're just not smart enough to figure out what I was talking about.

All of these downfield plays are low percentage plays. If you had Tom Brady going this far down the field to get completions, then his completion percentage would be down too. He also throws it away more than others to avoid turnovers.

I really think completion percentage is a totally misleading stat, not just for Tebow but for all QB's. Which is the underlying message really.

You're right, I'm not smart enough to realize that AYPA are a great stat, because it completely fails to account for receivers actually catching the ball.

I don't think Tim Tebow is that bad, but I'm going to have to belittle you after the Pats win, if only because of how terribly you cherry pick your stats.

 

[AstroManLuca]

#1 in the NFL in yards efficiency in AIR yards.
#1 in the NFL this season in his first 8 games as a starter in interception efficiency
#1 in the NFL in history in yards per completion in a playoff game
#1 passer rating in Broncos post season history(sorry Elway)
#1 rushing offense in the NFL after Tebow started as a QB
#1 Total Quarterback rating against the Steelers in the rating's history. No one has ever scored a 93.7 in ESPN's Total QBR rating.
-longest pass play in playoff history, tied with Elway, but Tim's was in OT in his first NFL playoff game...
-6, 4th quarter comebacks or game winning drives, including one in OT in the playoffs(7 if you count Oakland)

I don't know what "yards efficiency in air yards" means. Tebow had 6.38 yards per passing attempt in the regular season, which puts him in 28th place, ahead of only Matt Cassel, Christian Ponder, Curtis Painter, Sam Bradford, Colt McCoy, and Blaine Gabbert.

He may have been great at avoiding interceptions for much of his season, but he still finished up with 6 interceptions on 271 attempts. That's still good, but Alex Smith started the entire season and only threw 5 interceptions on 445 attempts, so Tebow is not #1 this season at avoiding interceptions unless you cherry-pick only his best games.

Yards per completion isn't a very useful stat since an incomplete pass is a 0 yard gain and you're throwing out all the incompletions. Still, Tebow's game against the Steelers ranks pretty highly even in yards per attempt in playoff history (despite a sub-50% completion percentage).

TQBR isn't a very highly regarded statistic and it's only been around this season, so having the highest TQBR isn't much of an achievement.

The longest passing touchdown in playoff history was 96 yards from Trent Dilfer to Shannon Sharpe against the Raiders in the 2000-01 season. That was, however, the longest overtime touchdown pass in the playoffs, and the 4th longest overtime touchdown pass ever.

 

[AMDZen]

You're right, I'm not smart enough to realize that AYPA are a great stat, because it completely fails to account for receivers actually catching the ball.

I don't think Tim Tebow is that bad, but I'm going to have to belittle you after the Pats win, if only because of how terribly you cherry pick your stats.

And I will be a nightmare on these forums if the Broncos win, and you guys will all be sore losers like you were after the Steelers game, insisting that he got lucky instead of giving the man his due.

 

[Capt Caveman]

TQBR isn't a very highly regarded statistic and it's only been around this season, so having the highest TQBR isn't much of an achievement.

He's cherry picking on one game. Tebow's 2011 QBR was the 3rd or 4th worst in the league.

 

[AMDZen]

I don't know what "yards efficiency in air yards" means.

This isn't rocket science. Every time a QB throws and the catch is made, the pass stops there. Thats Air yards. Meaning yards after the catch aren't included. What is so difficult to understand about that?

 

[AMDZen]

He's cherry picking on one game. Tebow's 2011 QBR was the 3rd or 4th worst in the league.

So its not impressive even though its his first playoff game? Against the #1 defense, #1 against the pass. For a guy that hasn't even started 16 games, in an era that has Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers all putting up record numbers? I know QBR has only been "official" for 1 year, but they have tracked it back since 2008.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons

 

[AstroManLuca]

All of these downfield plays are low percentage plays. If you had Tom Brady going this far down the field to get completions, then his completion percentage would be down too. He also throws it away more than others to avoid turnovers.

I guess I see what you mean here. I actually found a website that gives the percentage of "deep" (over 15 yard) passing attempts. Tebow has by far the highest number of deep attempts at 33.5%, with second place going to Carson Palmer with 28.4%. Brady, meanwhile, only throws it deep 17.8% of the time. Now that is just the percentage of attempts, not completion percentage on deep throws, so I don't know who has the best deep pass completion rate. But clearly Tebow throws it up more often and like you alluded to before, he also has to throw it out of bounds more often to avoid sacks since he often gets flushed out of the pocket.

 

[IAteYourMother]

This isn't rocket science. Every time a QB throws and the catch is made, the pass stops there. Thats Air yards. Meaning yards after the catch aren't included. What is so difficult to understand about that?

Dude... this is hilarious. It doesn't account for catches, just the yards thrown. Otherwise, how the fuck is Tebow's AYPA higher than his YPA??

This is particularly LOLworthy given that you insulted my intelligence earlier.

 

[Capt Caveman]

So its not impressive even though its his first playoff game? Against the #1 defense, #1 against the pass. For a guy that hasn't even started 16 games, in an era that has Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodgers all putting up record numbers? I know QBR has only been "official" for 1 year, but they have tracked it back since 2008.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834507/nfl-peyton-manning-top-two-qbr-seasons

One game.

He was 3rd worst QB in 2011 for TQBR - http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-season

 

[IAteYourMother]

This isn't rocket science. Every time a QB throws and the catch is made, the pass stops there. Thats Air yards. Meaning yards after the catch aren't included. What is so difficult to understand about that?

quoted for for the lulz.

 

[AMDZen]

Dude... this is hilarious. It doesn't account for catches, just the yards thrown. Otherwise, how the fuck is Tebow's AYPA higher than his YPA??

This is particularly LOLworthy given that you insulted my intelligence earlier.

32nd in the league in dropped passes? Throwing balls away?

Ask ESPN how they got the stat

One game.

He was 3rd worst QB in 2011 for TQBR - http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-season

Yep. One game, his first playoff game, his 15th as a starter. Against the #1 Defense all around, #1 pass defense all around. One of the greatest defensive coordinators of all time.

Not impressive. I get it

 

[AstroManLuca]

This isn't rocket science. Every time a QB throws and the catch is made, the pass stops there. Thats Air yards. Meaning yards after the catch aren't included. What is so difficult to understand about that?

You didn't explain what it meant at first and it's not a widely used statistic (actually, I've never heard of it). Where did you see that anyway? How is it calculated? Is it total passing yards minus yards after catch, divided by attempts?

And please, don't mention the word "efficiency" if you're going to say that completion percentage isn't important. The two are inherently linked. Tebow is the very definition of an inefficient passer - he throws it deep, sometimes it's caught, sometimes it isn't. The opposite of Brady or Brees, who make short attempts most of the time and rely on consistent, small gains.

Not that that's a bad thing. In fact, it's a winning strategy - teams that aren't as good should employ high-risk, high-reward strategies to maximize the amount of random chance and thus increase their chances of winning. That's what Tebow does and it's working. The Patriots want to minimize randomness because they are one of the best teams.

 

[IAteYourMother]

32nd in the league in dropped passes? Throwing balls away?

Ask ESPN how they got the stat



Yep. One game, his first playoff game, his 15th as a starter. Against the #1 Defense all around, #1 pass defense all around. One of the greatest defensive coordinators of all time.

Not impressive. I get it

You don't understand what Air yards means. Air yards per attempt means how far you throw the ball per attempt, regardless of whether a catch is made. It isn't just YPA minus YAC.

 

[AMDZen]

You didn't explain what it meant at first and it's not a widely used statistic (actually, I've never heard of it). Where did you see that anyway? How is it calculated? Is it total passing yards minus yards after catch, divided by attempts?

I provided the link and showed how I came across it. Its on the right hand side on the link, and what I quoted is how I came across it. I had never heard of it either and did some digging after I found it. Yes on the bolded, thats how I understood it any way

 

[JujuFish]

Tim Tebow's air yards per attempt in the season was actually 3.9, not 12.3. That's good for 35th in the league. The top 3, for the record, were Rodgers (7.7), Brady (7.0), and Schaub (6.9).

 

[AMDZen]

You don't understand what Air yards means. Air yards per attempt means how far you throw the ball per attempt, regardless of whether a catch is made. It isn't just YPA minus YAC.

OK well I don't agree with that, do you have a link?

I guess I have to crunch some new numbers then.

Tim Tebow's air yards per attempt in the season was actually 3.9, not 12.3. That's good for 35th in the league. The top 3, for the record, were Rodgers (7.7), Brady (7.0), and Schaub (6.9).

Link? I suppose I misunderstood it then. Some of what I was saying holds true still