Say what you will, but Tebow freaking wins.

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OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
lol, talking about getting on ones knees to polish tebows knob.

tebow won't have a NFL career as a starting QB beyond this season or the next.

thats bull.

John Elway is in the broncos front office now and you can bet your house Elway is mentoring the kid to be best he can be. hell he is better than orton and fuckstick in chicago combined right now.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
I don't get the "figure him out" angle on how to defend. There have been plenty of strong running QBs starting with Vick. Teams should know by now.

I mean even if he's moves to total pocket QB, his ability to get out and scramble is worth a ton. Look what happens when Vick or Newton get flushed out, they're dangerous and Tebow is as well.

It's more than that. Vick in the NFL has always tried to run a more traditional offense. He scrambles out of the pocket, but they are usually either QB draws or scrambles from broken plays. What Tebow is running is a spread option, where on many plays he is given the choice of handing the ball off to McGahee or taking it himself, depending on who the defense chooses to pursue. NFL defenses in the last few years have learned to over-pursue running backs and QBs, to the point where they have to re-learn to back off of this offense a bit and focus on containing rather than tackling for a loss.

Here's a quick intro to the option, and why it can be useful.
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,379
126
I think Tebow will do decently, but the hype will die down a lot when the Broncs miss either the playoffs entirely or get knocked out pretty easily.

I think he's likable and deserving of a little credit, but one cannot overlook the quality of their opponents nor the fact that the Denver D has been punching well above their weight class recently.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
It's more than that. Vick in the NFL has always tried to run a more traditional offense. He scrambles out of the pocket, but they are usually either QB draws or scrambles from broken plays. What Tebow is running is a spread option, where on many plays he is given the choice of handing the ball off to McGahee or taking it himself, depending on who the defense chooses to pursue. NFL defenses in the last few years have learned to over-pursue running backs and QBs, to the point where they have to re-learn to back off of this offense a bit and focus on containing rather than tackling for a loss.

Here's a quick intro to the option, and why it can be useful.

Thanks. That makes sense and you see it more in college. I've seen many defenses get burned on the edge or up the middle by over pursuing or pushing too deep, they wind up behind the actual runner.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,666
6,547
126
thats bull.

John Elway is in the broncos front office now and you can bet your house Elway is mentoring the kid to be best he can be. hell he is better than orton and fuckstick in chicago combined right now.

the problem is Tebow simply lacks mechanics. he hasn't improved his mechanics at all in 2 years. he's lacking things that can't be taught.

im not knocking on the guy at all because he's winning and that is all that matters. but i'm also not blind or drinking the tebow kool aid as some in this thread seem to be doing. regardless of him winning, he's not a good QB.

that doesn't mean they can't win. look at the Bears when they got to the superbowl with Grossman, or the Ravens who won it all in early 2000. they didn't have good QB's either but their defense carried the team.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
I don't get the "figure him out" angle on how to defend. There have been plenty of strong running QBs starting with Vick. Teams should know by now.

I mean even if he's moves to total pocket QB, his ability to get out and scramble is worth a ton. Look what happens when Vick or Newton get flushed out, they're dangerous and Tebow is as well.

Film. You can put Tebow in an abstract category with other QB's like Vick or Newton, but what really matters on the granular level is a body of unblinking film showing EXACTLY what he does when.

Once, DC's have enough of that, they will finds ways to counter his actual, specific tendencies . . . it's their job!

And, long term, until and unless Tebow radically and dramatically improves his passing prowess, he simply will not be a successful, top tier NFL QB.

Sitting on the sidelines and knowing as little as I do know, I just don't see this happening for him long term.

As an Eagles fan, I remember when A.J. Feeley stepped in for an injured McNabb and went 4-1 with a strong measure of success. Where is he now? Has God forsaken A.J. Feeley? ;)


Crap! Once again, I'm a day late and a dollar short, with crashtestdummy having already given a more focused answer. :oops:
 
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gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
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If nothing else, Tebow has raised the morale of the team which is always good. The defense has been playing a bit better which helped against the Chargers. I still don't like how poor his passing game is, but now I'm cautiously optimistic. We're winning... I won't say HE is winning, but the team is winning so I don't mind keeping him around.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,666
6,547
126
Thanks. That makes sense and you see it more in college. I've seen many defenses get burned on the edge or up the middle by over pursuing or pushing too deep, they wind up behind the actual runner.

college defense in general is pretty LOL. options in the NFL are MUCH riskier than in college simply because the level of defense is so much greater in the NFL and it's that much harder to protect the ball.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,444
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thats bull.

John Elway is in the broncos front office now and you can bet your house Elway is mentoring the kid to be best he can be. hell he is better than orton and fuckstick in chicago combined right now.

No he's not. He's not doing mentoring at all. In fact, he seems to be intent on finding who he's going to replace him with because Elway wants to find a QB that can throw the ball well.

Last year, the Broncos were bad because the defense was bad. They got Dumervil (2009 sack leader) back and added Von Miller, so the defense has been playing a lot better (it did take some time to get things going well as they moved back to a 4-3 though). The offense was crap because they went from McDaniels to Fox. Funny thing is they had the offensive line personnel to run Fox's scheme more than McDaniels, but they were still trying to run a balanced offense at first. With a young, massive line, running the ball makes more sense. Big surprise that when they went to that, things started working better.

As pointed out, the Broncos are running a funky offense that no one else in the NFL is, and so teams haven't gameplanned for it, let alone setup specific personnel to combat it. Very doubtful it will hold up over time. One thing that has seemed to impacted Tebow is a stellar safety. Eric Berry owned Tebow in college, and I think Polamalu would as well. I think LBers like Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis would too.

There's lots of evidence of a hackneyed offense having some short term success but not holding up. The Chiefs pistol offense actually kept them in games in 2008 despite how bad that team really was on both sides of the ball. The Wildcat worked for a few games but died out pretty quickly.

People saying Tebow will only improve as a thrower, he's actually gotten worse over time (he was a better passer last year), and them running a run focused offense will probably hamper his throwing even more.

As for Tebow's running. He runs way differently than Vick or Newton. He runs more like a big RB or FB, and those tend to not have the best long term success (in some part because they get worn down quickly from all the abuse). Tebow is a good runner, but we'll see how he holds up over time.

The last thing to note is that, the Broncos are not a good team right now. They're about average, which, for a season like this (with a ton of big time injuries) means I wouldn't be that hopeful about long term. As pointed out, they are not beating good teams. They're like the Chiefs of last year, and well, you can see how that's turned out. To top it off, the Denver defensive line needs improvement and they have an old secondary that will need replacing. Really the only spot that Denver seems to be set at is offensive line.
 

crashtestdummy

Platinum Member
Feb 18, 2010
2,893
0
0
Crap! Once again, I'm a day late and a dollar short, with crashtestdummy having already given a more focused answer. :oops:


Haha. You snooze, you lose! Actually, the baseball analogy was better, as baseball is a sport where individual statistics better correlate with wins and losses, and even there early career statistics don't do a good job of predicting overall career success (good or bad). As a Red Sox fan, Hideki Okajima and Hideo Nomo come to mind as possible analogies to Tim Tebow.
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
There are MANY reasons why Manning elevates the defense, with the most critical being his ability to sustain long drives and keep the defense off the field and therefore, rested. The Colts defense is bad and lacks talent in key areas, but they would not be nearly as inept if the offense could regularly sustain long drives so they could remain rested.

I could see fatigue as one of the numerous factors as to why the Broncos are doing well. From the D line's point of view, stopping a run is more work than stopping the pass because if your first pass rush move doesn't work, many of the D line guys just take the rest of the play off and sit back and jump to try to bat down the ball.

With the run, you almost have to pursue the whole play and it's a bit more taxing. With the Broncos heavily tilted towards the run, you see more hands on knees towards the end of the game. Then, during those final no huddle drives, the D line is going to be so tired, there's little pass rush on the few passing downs and the run game starts to work a little better.

It still does get back to the Denver D, though, whatever method is being used to improve their play. As in, if Sanchez doesn't throw the pick last week, then coming back from 10 points down is a lot tougher than 3 points down. If the D can't keep it close, like the Detroit game, then Denver can't run the ball 50+ times per game.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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I'll take that bet. How much?

Are you betting that he'll be a full-time starter all of next year? I'll take that bet, just a small, $10 bet via paypal for fun?

Conditions being...

I win the bet if he remains the full-time starter by next season's end, not including injuries.
I win the bet if he does not start a game for non-injury related reasons (he can get pulled in the middle of a game, but if he starts the following game, we're kosher)

You win if he continues to be the full-time starter until next season's end
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Are you betting that he'll be a full-time starter all of next year? I'll take that bet, just a small, $10 bet via paypal for fun?

Conditions being...

I win the bet if he remains the full-time starter by next season's end, not including injuries.
I win the bet if he does not start a game for non-injury related reasons (he can get pulled in the middle of a game, but if he starts the following game, we're kosher)

You win if he continues to be the full-time starter until next season's end

No, I'm betting he will be the preferred starting QB in the NFL beyond this season or the next. How about 500 bucks? You were effectively saying he won't have an NFL career or start.

tebow won't have a NFL career as a starting QB beyond this season or the next.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,869
3,299
136
No, I'm betting he will be the preferred starting QB in the NFL beyond this season or the next. How about 500 bucks? You were effectively saying he won't have an NFL career or start.

you may want to double check who you are responding to and quoting. i don't make bets with the mentally handicapped though so we will just have to wait and see who is correct.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
No, I'm betting he will be the preferred starting QB in the NFL beyond this season or the next. How about 500 bucks? You were effectively saying he won't have an NFL career or start.

500 bucks, now you're talking! Sooooo tempting. :biggrin:
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
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I hate Tebow simply because of the insane attention he gets. He's an average starting QB and he's gets his own 200+ post thread on Anandtech. You can't watch ESPN in the afternoons now without being bombarded with Tebow coverage. It's Tebow all the time, everywhere.

I want him to start losing just so he'll go away.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
you may want to double check who you are responding to and quoting. i don't make bets with the mentally handicapped though so we will just have to wait and see who is correct.
Wouldn't it be advantageous to make bets with the mentally handicapped?
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,892
10,713
147
Wouldn't it be advantageous to make bets with the mentally handicapped?

They rarely pay up. All too often, this is the scenario:

"Tebow hasn't started all year. Just yesterday, he was caught on his knees before a guy named Jesus, and he wasn't praying. Pay up, you owe me $500 bucks."

"Potato!" (drools a bit and grins.)

"Dude, we had a bet. Pay up!"

"Umbrella dog!" (begins to disrobe, revealing an alarming erection.)

And oh, yeah . . . apparently it's also not morally right.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
81
No, I'm betting he will be the preferred starting QB in the NFL beyond this season or the next. How about 500 bucks? You were effectively saying he won't have an NFL career or start.

what exactly does it mean that "he will be the preferred starting QB in the NFL beyond this season or the next."

Also, 500 bucks no can do, it's a little more % of my salary than I'd care to gamble.
 
Nov 3, 2004
10,491
22
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it may be monetarily beneficial but it's not morally right.

how the hell am I "mentally handicapped" for not thinking Tebow won't be able to continue his success as an NFL starter? Didn't realize reasonable disagreement called for namecalling. Are people really this butthurt over the Tebow skepticism?
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,741
456
126
I hate Tebow simply because of the insane attention he gets. He's an average starting QB and he's gets his own 200+ post thread on Anandtech. You can't watch ESPN in the afternoons now without being bombarded with Tebow coverage. It's Tebow all the time, everywhere.

I want him to start losing just so he'll go away.

I agree. I was watching the games this weekend and during the report of upcoming games, they had a list of all the games that day that looked like:
"the Bears vs. the Raiders"
etc.
"Tebow and the Broncos vs. the Chargers"

Really? You had to single out Tebow? Won't be long now till it's "The Tebow Experience, featuring Tebow... with starting QB Tim Tebow"
 

dud

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,635
73
91
This will be my first and only contribution to this thread ...

Tebow may not be the best quarterback in the history of the NFL ... but the rest of the team has rallied around his strengths and weaknesses and they have learned to play as a team.

Only time will tell if Tebow and the Broncos are successful ...
 

Adrenaline

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2005
5,320
8
81
I enjoy watching Tebow play, always have.

I remember saying in a football thread on this board that Tebow would do well, which I was told repeatedly by someone that I did not know anything about football and Tebow wouldn't be drafted on the first day of the draft (I was thinking first three rounds but irrelevant now as he was a first round pick), and Tebow is doing well.

Best of luck to him. It is his second season and I hope he improves on his throwing mechanics.