Say what you will, but Tebow freaking wins.

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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Something everyone seems to either discount or completely miss is the effect Tebow has on the rest of the team. He inspires them, they believe in him. If you watched the interviews with the players after the game last night that much is very clear: they're all in and they believe in him. There's value in that fact, and it doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

Tebow is not a legit QB at this point, but take a look at the record for Denver with and without him (with the exact same players) since he's been in the league, and tell me again that he doesn't have a positive impact on the team.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,648
2,923
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Since 2006, Tennessee is 30-17 with Vince Young at quarterback, 18-23 with anyone else.

I'm not quite sure how your statement fits in with that fact.

When Young was the QB they were a run-first defensice team. When Young wasn't QB and they went with Collins, Fisher went to a pass-first scheme. Tennessee was not set up to be a pass-first team, hence they lost quite a bit more.

As time went on Fisher stayed with the pass-first scheme (a scheme that is "traditional" in this day and age) and tried to force Young to run it. He couldn't, got pouty, and the immaturity and inability to run the offense led to his being released.

He wound up in Philadelphia where, in a prior game, he threw 1 pass for 1 INT and was pulled. Now this week he will be the started due to Vick's injury and admitted that after several months he still hasn't bothered to learn the playbook.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
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Last game iirc he was 2/8 passing...LOL.

In 3 of 4 wins, his defense kept teams 15 or less points. The other was <25 pts.

Just like the Bears for quite a few years...a sh!tty quarterback but the defense keeps the game low scoring and within reach.

yeah 61.2 qb rating last night....


I was coming in here to post that hes not the best shitty qb till he can get to the SB and beat grossman, and win the SB and beat dilfer :p

also, thank you broncos for hiring mcdaniel year ago I the bears got cutler :)
 
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AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
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What does The Great Rape of McDaniels have anything to do with Tebow? Just because McDaniels set your franchise back 5 years doesn't mean that Tebow can't as well. I think Elway is smart enough to know that he can't buy in like some of the Denver fans are doing right now until he sees much more consistency in the passing game.

Hard for me to believe people think Tebow is the long term solution (he could be, but it's unlikely), but I guess when you've lost almost every good player on your team, wins must feel good.

McDaniels drafted Tebow ass monkey! They have everything to do with each other.

Tebow is playing now because he gives us the best chance to win. Is he the QB of the future? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that, you don't know that, nobody knows that.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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Tebow is playing now because he gives us the best chance to win. Is he the QB of the future? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that, you don't know that, nobody knows that.

I agree he gives the best chance to win... but whether he's the QBotF is what this whole debate is about!!! obviously no one knows the future, but there are a lot of signs that suggest he is not the QB of the future, and that's where such thinking might set you back even more than McDaniels.

Actually scratch that, nothing could set you farther back than McDaniels.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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McDaniels drafted Tebow ass monkey! They have everything to do with each other.

Tebow is playing now because he gives us the best chance to win. Is he the QB of the future? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that, you don't know that, nobody knows that.

Not sure if serious. He's a wild-cat QB that hasn't been schemed against yet.
 

Terzo

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2005
2,589
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I'll admit, I don't respect him as a quarterback, and I agree that he'll only have success until defenses learn to adapt to the unique offense the Broncos run. I certainly thought the Jets would destroy him.

Still, I'm waiting for next year when the Broncos play the AFL North. The Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers will show what top notch defenses can (or can't) do against Tebow.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
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I agree he gives the best chance to win... but whether he's the QBotF is what this whole debate is about!!! obviously no one knows the future, but there are a lot of signs that suggest he is not the QB of the future, and that's where such thinking might set you back even more than McDaniels.

Actually scratch that, nothing could set you farther back than McDaniels.

Again, McDaniels drafted Tebow. His draft decisions and trade decisions is what set the team back. Tebow and McDaniels are tied together as far as setting the Broncos back so your just arguing the same thing.

Not sure if serious. He's a wild-cat QB that hasn't been schemed against yet.

Wild cat is a package, a package that has a RB, WR, HBack or Fullback of some kind taking direct snaps. We have run one direct snap play to a RB since Tebow has started this year, the rest of it was option play.

You could argue that he is a spread/read option QB. Read option, spread option, triple option, etc. isn't the same as wild cat

There is no such thing as a wild cat QB. Learn football if you're going to try and talk intelligently about it.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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Again, McDaniels drafted Tebow. His draft decisions and trade decisions is what set the team back. Tebow and McDaniels are tied together as far as setting the Broncos back so your just arguing the same thing.



Wild cat is a package, a package that has a RB, WR, HBack or Fullback of some kind taking direct snaps. We have run one direct snap play to a RB since Tebow has started this year, the rest of it was option play.

You could argue that he is a spread/read option QB. Read option, spread option, triple option, etc. isn't the same as wild cat

There is no such thing as a wild cat QB.
Learn football if you're going to try and talk intelligently about it.

The fact that you can't determine on your own if Tebow has a future as QB says you can't talk intelligently about football.

No such thing as a wild cat QB? They're wild cat QB's b/c no one wants to call them/designate them as running backs. Brad Smith and Tim Tebow, who are basically running backs but drafted as QBs. Their passing stats prove that.
 
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mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
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The fact that you can't determine on your own if Tebow has a future as QB says you can't talk intelligently about football.

No such thing as a wild cat QB? Brad Smith and Tim Tebow, who are basically running backs. Their passing stats prove that.

Where does that put Mike Vick? Vince Young? Steve Young? Etc?

Let's face it. Some athletic college QB's will never be given a shot as a pro QB. Eric Crouch, Tommy Frazier, and soon Taylor Martinez (horrible, horrible college passer) are all Huskers who have had some college success that did not (or would not) translate to the NFL.

Tebow is quite a bit different. He very well may never have long term success in the NFL, but he has already proven a bit more than most expected... and yet, they keep pointing to his flaws.

Problem is, every QB has flaws. Tebow has a plethora in terms of throwing mechanics. But he has hit receivers in stride, so to say that he can't is about as stupid as it gets.

He still has a lot of room for growth. But what we've seen so far is somewhat impressive. I don't think I would want him as my team's QB... but if he improves his passing just a bit, his other skills will give him an edge in that teams will have to account for more than just 5 playmakers on offense.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
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Where does that put Mike Vick? Vince Young? Steve Young? Etc?

Let's face it. Some athletic college QB's will never be given a shot as a pro QB. Eric Crouch, Tommy Frazier, and soon Taylor Martinez (horrible, horrible college passer) are all Huskers who have had some college success that did not (or would not) translate to the NFL.

Tebow is quite a bit different. He very well may never have long term success in the NFL, but he has already proven a bit more than most expected... and yet, they keep pointing to his flaws.

Problem is, every QB has flaws. Tebow has a plethora in terms of throwing mechanics. But he has hit receivers in stride, so to say that he can't is about as stupid as it gets.

He still has a lot of room for growth. But what we've seen so far is somewhat impressive. I don't think I would want him as my team's QB... but if he improves his passing just a bit, his other skills will give him an edge in that teams will have to account for more than just 5 playmakers on offense.

All of the QBs you listed could throw the ball with more strength and accuracy than Tebow.

You would think that if Tebow was truly dedicated to being a QB that he would have improved his mechanics prior to being drafted and afterwards. Can you list any successful modern day QB that has thrown for less than 50% accuracy? Hit a WR in stride less than 50% of the time, ok.
 

Onita

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2004
1,158
0
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Where does that put Mike Vick? Vince Young? Steve Young? Etc?

Let's face it. Some athletic college QB's will never be given a shot as a pro QB. Eric Crouch, Tommy Frazier, and soon Taylor Martinez (horrible, horrible college passer) are all Huskers who have had some college success that did not (or would not) translate to the NFL.

Tebow is quite a bit different. He very well may never have long term success in the NFL, but he has already proven a bit more than most expected... and yet, they keep pointing to his flaws.

Problem is, every QB has flaws. Tebow has a plethora in terms of throwing mechanics. But he has hit receivers in stride, so to say that he can't is about as stupid as it gets.

He still has a lot of room for growth. But what we've seen so far is somewhat impressive. I don't think I would want him as my team's QB... but if he improves his passing just a bit, his other skills will give him an edge in that teams will have to account for more than just 5 playmakers on offense.

You aren't actually calling those QB's wildcat QB's are you?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Last game iirc he was 2/8 passing...LOL.

In 3 of 4 wins, his defense kept teams 15 or less points. The other was <25 pts.

Just like the Bears for quite a few years...a sh!tty quarterback but the defense keeps the game low scoring and within reach.

2 of 8 yes, but he also had a passing TD and a rushing TD. Why pass if the D can't stop the run?

also, what's very interesting is that Tebow has more yards, more completions, better completion percentage, more TD's, less Int's and more wins over his first 7 starts than Elway did...and it's not even close.

To say he's been horrible is silly. He's not pretty, but so what?
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
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2 of 8 yes, but he also had a passing TD and a rushing TD. Why pass if the D can't stop the run?

also, what's very interesting is that Tebow has more yards, more completions, better completion percentage, more TD's, less Int's and more wins over his first 7 starts than Elway did...and it's not even close.

To say he's been horrible is silly. He's not pretty, but so what?

Yep, already posted that

Again for awesomeness

First 7 starts in the NFL comparison

Elway
Record: 2-5
Completion % : 44%
Passing Yards: 757
TD/INT: 1-9
QB Rating: 37.2

Tebow 4-3
Completion % : 47%
Passing Yards: 1,177
TD/INT: 10-4
QB Rating: 78.7
 

DrunkenSano

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2008
3,892
490
126
McDaniels drafted Tebow ass monkey! They have everything to do with each other.

Tebow is playing now because he gives us the best chance to win. Is he the QB of the future? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know that, you don't know that, nobody knows that.

Tebow may be the best QB you have on your team but guess what, in the end the best piece of turd you have on your team is still a piece of turd. Only way Denver keeps on winning is if there is a god and Tebow continues to pray extra hard.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
76
I find everyone's lack of faith in Tebows skills and abilities amusing. Somehow every one of his wins is a fluke. "OH But he'll lose the next one" "WIN" "OH well ...... the next one"

Before he started this year it was "Orton is the best QB blah blah, Tebow is 4th string, blah". Apparently anyone who watched his 3 starts last year simply forgot about them or didn't watch them (mostly the latter)

This year there is skepticism, as there should be - don't get me wrong. Skepticism is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Chris Carter on ESPN telling him flat out that there is no way the Jets lose this game. I'm talking about Mike and Mike in the morning flat out saying he can't get it done.

"Well he won't keep winning this way"

"What if he beats the Jets that way?"

"Well it probably won't happen, but if he does beat the Jets I will give him his do."

What happens this morning? Nobody is giving him credit, they are pretty much waffling and now their saying "Well the Jets just didn't do anything, they played terrible, there was a missed assignment on that TD run and nobody was on the left side". "Mark Sanchez is terribad". Now all of a sudden the Jets just aren't a good team.

No credit to Tebow, its the Jets that lost it.

I will laugh if he carries this team to the playoffs. The doubters will never change their mind, and it will make it all the more delicious to see him keep winning.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Yep, already posted that

Again for awesomeness

First 7 starts in the NFL comparison

Elway
Record: 2-5
Completion % : 44%
Passing Yards: 757
TD/INT: 1-9
QB Rating: 37.2

Tebow 4-3
Completion % : 47%
Passing Yards: 1,177
TD/INT: 10-4
QB Rating: 78.7

sorry, didn't see that.

It could also be argued that Elway had much better talent around him. Tebow has a second year WR (Decker), the youngest OL in the league and a third year RB (Moreno), and a Journeyman RB (McGahee).
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I find everyone's lack of faith in Tebows skills and abilities amusing. Somehow every one of his wins is a fluke. "OH But he'll lose the next one" "WIN" "OH well ...... the next one"

Before he started this year it was "Orton is the best QB blah blah, Tebow is 4th string, blah". Apparently anyone who watched his 3 starts last year simply forgot about them or didn't watch them (mostly the latter)

This year there is skepticism, as there should be - don't get me wrong. Skepticism is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Chris Carter on ESPN telling him flat out that there is no way the Jets lose this game. I'm talking about Mike and Mike in the morning flat out saying he can't get it done.

"Well he won't keep winning this way"

"What if he beats the Jets that way?"

"Well it probably won't happen, but if he does beat the Jets I will give him his do."

What happens this morning? Nobody is giving him credit, they are pretty much waffling and now their saying "Well the Jets just didn't do anything, they played terrible, there was a missed assignment on that TD run and nobody was on the left side". "Mark Sanchez is terribad". Now all of a sudden the Jets just aren't a good team.

No credit to Tebow, its the Jets that lost it.

I will laugh if he carries this team to the playoffs. The doubters will never change their mind, and it will make it all the more delicious to see him keep winning.

Yep, and during the pre-game show they were talking about the Jets being a SB contender. Now, it's they're the worst team in the NFL. Which is it morons?
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,589
0
76
sorry, didn't see that.

It could also be argued that Elway had much better talent around him. Tebow has a second year WR (Decker), the youngest OL in the league and a third year RB (Moreno), and a Journeyman RB (McGahee).

Royal is playing terrible and has been on the decline since his rookie year. 2nd year WR Damarious Thomas didn't play at all last year due to Achilles injury. 2nd year WR Eric Decker didn't play at all last year simply because he wasn't ready so both of them are actually rookies.

We trade our hands down best pass catcher in B LLoyd

Last night, McGahee (who has been AWESOME) was at probably 40% since he left the game sunday with a hamstring pull and yet starts 4 days later (he never should have started).

If Lance Ball had started and him and JJ split carries, this would have looked like a better win. McGahee was literally at no more than 50% and couldn't do anything, was responsible for the turnover which led to the Jets first points.

Nothing against him, he should have rested himself up and had a "mini bye" after this week for our game against San Diego next weekend. Blame is on the coaches on this one. The player always wants to play, they need to determine if he's fit to do so.
 

thegimp03

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2004
7,420
2
81
Yep, already posted that

Again for awesomeness

First 7 starts in the NFL comparison

Elway
Record: 2-5
Completion % : 44%
Passing Yards: 757
TD/INT: 1-9
QB Rating: 37.2

Tebow 4-3
Completion % : 47%
Passing Yards: 1,177
TD/INT: 10-4
QB Rating: 78.7


Interesting stat comparison between Elway's first 7 starts and Teblow's first 7 starts. The Broncos probably have a great chance at making the playoffs this year given how shaky the AFC West is.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Tebow is like what happened when Miami brought out the Wildcat offense a few years ago. For about a season and a half it was effective because defenses didn't know what to do with it. When they learned it stopped being effective and became something that gets used once or twice a game rather than as a full offensive scheme. Tebow presents problems short term because nobody has seen enough of him to drill their defense on how to stop what he does. By week 1 of next season he's history because everybody is going to know how to take him out.

I've been thinking along similar lines, although I think it won't take nearly that long for teams to figure out the defense.

I haven't followed Tebow as closely as others, we don't always get Denver down here in NC. But what I have seen is that he has helped win in the games comming from behind in the late 4th quarter. That's when the other team is running a prevent defense. Tebow's unusual style is perfect for scoring on the prevent defense.

In the prevent, you have a minimal rush. Tebow, while not the fastest QB can get away from D linemen. Then the secondary is deep down field trying to keep everything in front of them. This gives Tebow plenty of room to take off running. And, as we saw last night, Tebow is so big and strong he can break tackles by DB's.

IMO, this is an easy fix, and one I have seen before. All that a defense need to do to adjust is set up an OLB type (faster LB with good lateral speed) as a 'spy' on Tebow. The Panthers used OLB Davis as a spy on Vick and smoked the Falcons back when Vick was really running well.

Tebow's passing is horrible. He's really inaccurate. The only reason he hasn't had a bunch of interceptions is because he often throws far too short/low where nobody, including his own receiver, can catch it. Throwing balls so completely uncatchable is hardly a positive. And if he keeps that up some team will run a LB or DB underneath in (a zone type) coverage to snag those.

Tebow's big advantage now is his uniqueness. I don't recall many, if any, QB's who were built like, and run like, a fullback. I noticed Reeves didn't want to challenge Tebow on that sideline in the last drive, or maybe he expected Tebow to slide or run out of bounds. Teams are going to adjust to this, and treat him like a FB going for the extra yards instead of just a QB scrambling. He's going to get hammered eventually. We'll see if he can take it.

And as has been noted, if Denver gets behind by several TD's Tebow's just won't be able to catch up.

Somebody above said something about people not crediting a strong running game enough. Well, IMO, if you can't throw the ball the other teams are just going to stack the box etc. They can also put LB-sized safeties (or smaller faster LB's) to bring the wood. It's just too easy to game plan for a one dimensional team

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Tebow needs to be kissing Von Miller's ass. He's played out of his mind (as in MVP caliber) and he's a rookie. He's the biggest reason the Denver defense isn't like it was last year and why the Broncos are starting to win games.

He had an awesome sack in the 4th. Such an explosive quick first step off the line and then pancaked the DT on the way to the sack. I thought he was considered smallish for the NFL, but he looked quick and powerful on that play.

Fern