Russian Sanctions Announced

[Londo_Jowo]

Seems like Russia is admitting guilt to me

I think most of the world will see this differently from how you see it. More like Putin is laughing in Obama's face.

 

[Jhhnn]

To buy that line of "thought" one has to first accept that Obama himself is a total non-entity even while in office, whereas Trump was THE major force in American politics even when virtually everyone was sure he would lose. Also, I don't think Trump is going to lose much political capital for doing the exact same thing Obama did until his last-month-in-office tantrum.

Bullshit. The US has *never* recognized the notion that Israel has the right to take territory on the west bank past the 1967 borders. Trump's ambassador to Israel has now done so. Trump is not doing the same thing Obama did over the last 8 years, which was to oppose such settlements as a matter of long standing policy.

Palestinians? Bibi has nothing for them other than ongoing expropriation & perpetual occupation.

 

[Jhhnn]

That's what 'fake news' now means to conservatives: news that isn't right wing.

They live on the other side of the event horizon of post-truth reality.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Yes, the fake news stories from the left are the best. LMAO!!!!!!

 

[Starbuck1975]

The UN has spent a huge amount of time and effort on Syria. Here's a list of resolutions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Syria

In addition to resolutions the UN is doing a large amount of work in the region to deal with the Syrian crisis. In fact I have a friend who works for UNMAS who is set to return to the region in a month or so in fact, explicitly for more Syria work.

The UN has a responsibility to address all areas, the humanitarian crisis in Syria AND the humanitarian crisis currently being perpetrated by Israel.

The UN is ineffective because it is incapable of putting enough white helmets on the ground to do much of anything. The massacred souls of Srebrenica, Aleppo, Mogadishu and Rwanda are monuments to UN resolution effectiveness.

 

[fskimospy]

The UN is ineffective because it is incapable of putting enough white helmets on the ground to do much of anything. The massacred souls of Srebrenica, Aleppo, Mogadishu and Rwanda are monuments to UN resolution effectiveness.

Well then why are you worried about what they are doing in regards to Israel?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Your concern is touching, in that usual bad touching sort of way.

Ejection of diplomats is a common way for a country to express displeasure with another. It's been that way for hundreds of years.

We already have an imbroglio with the Russians over Ukraine & Syria.

The US & the rest of the world have never granted Israel the right to dispossess the Pals. Our Israeli friends have lied to us every inch of the way wrt "seeking peace" & the two state solution. Their actions wrt settlements & now Bibi's own words reveal that to be true. Trump's new ambassador to Israel & Ivanka's father in law have long supported the most radical settlers. Friedman recently offered this-

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.726779

Of course Obama let the UN resolution pass. He has to put this squarely on the Trump Admin where it belongs wherever it goes. Trump has to brand it to do it. I'm sure he will.

Syria? Wut? Trump told the Russians to take care of it, and they will. Trump rendered us irrelevant, not Obama.

You know you love the bad touch.

Trump owns Syria, China and Russia the moment he takes office. I expect him to fail spectacularly.

The misinterpretation of the Arab spring, rise of ISIS, degradation of relations with Israel, situation in Libya and Russian intervention in Syria are all foreign policy failings of the Obama administration. The assasination of Bin Laden is suprisingly the only thing he got right.

I will let you decide if Clinton or Kerry are the failed architects of those foreign policies.

 

[fskimospy]

You know you love the bad touch.

Trump owns Syria, China and Russia the moment he takes office. I expect him to fail spectacularly.

The misinterpretation of the Arab spring, rise of ISIS, degradation of relations with Israel, situation in Libya and Russian intervention in Syria are all foreign policy failings of the Obama administration. The assasination of Bin Laden is suprisingly the only thing he got right.

I will let you decide if Clinton or Kerry are the failed architects of those foreign policies.

I actually think degraded relations with Israel has been a positive thing. For years we have stood by and done nothing while Israel very obviously undermines the two state solution with settlement activity, tried to undermine the Iran deal, and meddled in our internal politics. Obama finally (at the very end) called a spade a spade. Israel is not our friend.

 

[werepossum]

Werepossum just tried to equate hacking and covert espionage with the president saying something. Lol.

Ah, so your beef is not really with interfering in elections at all; your beef is with competency at interfering in elections. lol

Putin Stunner: "We Will Not Expel Anyone; We Refuse To Sink To 'Kitchen' Diplomacy"

..."when in a stunning reversal, the Russian leader took the high road, rejected the Lavrov proposal, and in a statement posted by the Kremlin said that Russia won’t expel any Americans in retaliation to US moves, in a brutal demonstration of just how irrelevant Obama's 11th hour decision is for US-Russian relations."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...-not-expel-anyone-we-refuse-sink-obamas-level

I don't think that's the "high road", I think it's just that Putin calculates that he gains more from openly laughing at Obama than from getting all huffy.

You know you love the bad touch.

Trump owns Syria, China and Russia the moment he takes office. I expect him to fail spectacularly.

The misinterpretation of the Arab spring, rise of ISIS, degradation of relations with Israel, situation in Libya and Russian intervention in Syria are all foreign policy failings of the Obama administration. The assasination of Bin Laden is suprisingly the only thing he got right.

I will let you decide if Clinton or Kerry are the failed architects of those foreign policies.

The rise of ISIS in Syria, sure, to a degree. That's on Obama and Clinton. The rise of ISIS in Iraq can be traced almost entirely to Bush's/Bremer's blanket dismissal of all Ba'athists from government and dismissal of the Iraqi army. Almost no one could rise to any level of importance without being in the Ba'ath party, but the wholesale dismissal of all made available a large pool of government bureaucrats. And even though most in the Iraqi army were conscripts who didn't want to be in the Iraqi army, firing them made available the largish pool of officers and NCOs who were careerists or at the least, had the training to train and lead troops. These two measures also alienated the Sunni population, making them ripe for revolt. Without these two actions, ISIS probably could not have flourished in Iraq, and without a strong base in Iraq, ISIS would have been just one more loony faction in Syria.

The rest of that I'll grant you are failures of Obama's foreign policy. But they are largely the same failures of all modern American Presidents. Syrian five years from now will probably look much the same as Iraq. Given that every American President has made pretty much these same missteps, let's at least celebrate Presidents like Obama who did them comparatively cheaply in American lives and treasure.

 

[OrByte]

I think most of the world will see this differently from how you see it. More like Putin is laughing in Obama's face.

If Russia didn't do the things that our US government is accusing them of, Putin would be going apeshit right now.

Instead he is playing his next move, cozying up to Trump.

 

[werepossum]

I actually think degraded relations with Israel has been a positive thing. For years we have stood by and done nothing while Israel very obviously undermines the two state solution with settlement activity, tried to undermine the Iran deal, and meddled in our internal politics. Obama finally (at the very end) called a spade a spade. Israel is not our friend.

This is the view of the far left. Israel is not our friend; Red China and Iran and Cuba, those are our friends.

 

[fskimospy]

This is the view of the far left. Israel is not our friend; Red China and Iran and Cuba, those are our friends.

This is the lying of the far right. Cuba, Iran, and China are not our friends either. Why do you think that it's so hard for you to post without lying about other people's views? Are you just not a very honest person?

If you want to continue to be stupid enough to think that Israel is our friend that's your business.

 

[fskimospy]

Ah, so your beef is not really with interfering in elections at all; your beef is with competency at interfering in elections. lol

I don't think that's the "high road", I think it's just that Putin calculates that he gains more from openly laughing at Obama than from getting all huffy.


The rise of ISIS in Syria, sure, to a degree. That's on Obama and Clinton. The rise of ISIS in Iraq can be traced almost entirely to Bush's/Bremer's blanket dismissal of all Ba'athists from government and dismissal of the Iraqi army. Almost no one could rise to any level of importance without being in the Ba'ath party, but the wholesale dismissal of all made available a large pool of government bureaucrats. And even though most in the Iraqi army were conscripts who didn't want to be in the Iraqi army, firing them made available the largish pool of officers and NCOs who were careerists or at the least, had the training to train and lead troops. These two measures also alienated the Sunni population, making them ripe for revolt. Without these two actions, ISIS probably could not have flourished in Iraq, and without a strong base in Iraq, ISIS would have been just one more loony faction in Syria.

The rest of that I'll grant you are failures of Obama's foreign policy. But they are largely the same failures of all modern American Presidents. Syrian five years from now will probably look much the same as Iraq. Given that every American President has made pretty much these same missteps, let's at least celebrate Presidents like Obama who did them comparatively cheaply in American lives and treasure.

Nope, just smart enough not to equate covert espionage with a news conference. This is a skill that basically everyone but you has mastered. Lol.

 

[FIVR]

This is the view of the far left. Israel is not our friend; Red China and Iran and Cuba, those are our friends.

The funny thing about this, is you know so little about US history as to believe this hasn't always been the case. Read a book sometime, preferably one on the history of the US. Israel has never collaborated with us to fight a world war. Cuba was one of longest and best allies until recently. Israel has made the US less secure, bombed our ships, manipulated our politicians and hacked our intelligence agencies.

 

[FIVR]

It's interesting to watch you try and shift your character from someone who routinely quotes Russian propaganda to concern trolling like this.

So I take it you think Comey deserves a medal for his intelligence work? Maybe a gold one shaped like a "T" for TRUTH and THE AMERICAN WAY?


How can you possibly excuse the blatant incompetence of the FBI? I guess you could argue the CIA figured it out eventually, and that this was arguably "domestic" territory. The FBI can't be excused so easily.

 

[Moonbeam]

This is the lying of the far right. Cuba, Iran, and China are not our friends either. Why do you think that it's so hard for you to post without lying about other people's views? Are you just not a very honest person?

If you want to continue to be stupid enough to think that Israel is our friend that's your business.

werepossum seems very flexible mentally is some areas but is frozen solid in others. I think of him as having Progie Butt Disease, a condition that inevitably involves a lot of scratching at phantom sores.

 

[werepossum]

The funny thing about this, is you know so little about US history as to believe this hasn't always been the case. Read a book sometime, preferably one on the history of the US. Israel has never collaborated with us to fight a world war. Cuba was one of longest and best allies until recently. Israel has made the US less secure, bombed our ships, manipulated our politicians and hacked our intelligence agencies.

lol That was pre-Castro Cuba, a much, much different animal. And yes, I'm quite aware that Israel has done some terrible things to the USA and vice versa. In some ways, we're each other's best friend and worst enemy. Israel has done more trading of American military secrets and technology than probably anyone before Bill Clinton. America has armed Egypt with very modern weapon systems, and Egypt is the only Middle Eastern nation with the population, wealth, and military to really be a threat to Israel. But in the Middle East, Israel is the only real friend we have. Saudi Arabia finances the lion's share of radical Islamic fundamentalism which threatens us. Even Jordan turned against us in favor of Iraq.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

This is the view of the far left. Israel is not our friend; Red China and Iran and Cuba, those are our friends.

Why do you think Israel should be our friend any more than Iran? Israel has killed more Americans and stolen more American secrets than Iran has. The things working against Iran (e.g. the hostage crisis of 1979) are in the grand scheme of things hardly terrible nor even surprising, considering most of it results from America putting puppets into their nation and upsetting cultural norms. They're a theocratic nation, largely in reaction to our destabilization of their government, but that will fade with time just as it already was on their own terms in the 50s.

 

[werepossum]

Nope, just smart enough not to equate covert espionage with a news conference. This is a skill that basically everyone but you has mastered. Lol.

lmao! Covert espionage. "Someone has your password. Please click here and change your password by first entering your old password . . . "

Yup, definitely the smartest people in the world being taken advantage of.

 

[werepossum]

Why do you think Israel should be our friend any more than Iran? Israel has killed more Americans and stolen more American secrets than Iran has. The things working against Iran (e.g. the hostage crisis of 1979) are in the grand scheme of things hardly terrible nor even surprising, considering most of it results from America putting puppets into their nation and upsetting cultural norms. They're a theocratic nation, largely in reaction to our destabilization of their government, but that will fade with time just as it already was on their own terms in the 50s.

Israel is pretty much the only Middle Eastern nation to share intelligence with us; their enemies are largely our enemies. Iran funds a great deal of terrorism, much of which is aimed at us and our allies. You do the math.

 

[fskimospy]

werepossum seems very flexible mentally is some areas but is frozen solid in others. I think of him as having Progie Butt Disease, a condition that inevitably involves a lot of scratching at phantom sores.

As far as I can tell he thinks that progressives are fifth columnists that hate America and the Protestant work ethic. If progressives want to enact anti poverty policies it's not to alleviate poverty, it's to make people dependent on government and get more democratic voters. If progressives say Israel isn't our friend it's because they want to ally with the dirty commies and Islamic radicals, not because they think Israel harms our security.

It seems motivated by knowing in his heart that progressives are bad, lying people who have terrible policies. When analysis shows terrible policies work better than the ones he favors that doesn't mean the hated proggies were right, it indicates that the people analyzing those programs are dirty proggies too. (This is why his imagined conspiracies ballon to such huge sizes in some cases)

If you can convince him that the topic doesn't involve the dirty proggies then he seems perfectly happy to be reasonable. As soon as it does though you can bet your last dollar that the insults, wild conspiracy theories, and accusations of lying or a sinister agenda are right around the corner.

Sigh.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is the lying of the far right. Cuba, Iran, and China are not our friends either. Why do you think that it's so hard for you to post without lying about other people's views? Are you just not a very honest person?

If you want to continue to be stupid enough to think that Israel is our friend that's your business.

Israel has exploited America's self imposed guilt trip over the holocaust for 70 years.

Whatever they do, they get a pass, because they're Jewish. Any questions?

 

[werepossum]

As far as I can tell he thinks that progressives are fifth columnists that hate America and the Protestant work ethic. If progressives want to enact anti poverty policies it's not to alleviate poverty, it's to make people dependent on government and get more democratic voters. If progressives say Israel isn't our friend it's because they want to ally with the dirty commies and Islamic radicals, not because they think Israel harms our security.

It seems motivated by knowing in his heart that progressives are bad, lying people who have terrible policies. When analysis shows terrible policies work better than the ones he favors that doesn't mean the hated proggies were right, it indicates that the people analyzing those programs are dirty proggies too. (This is why his imagined conspiracies ballon to such huge sizes in some cases)

If you can convince him that the topic doesn't involve the dirty proggies then he seems perfectly happy to be reasonable. As soon as it does though you can bet your last dollar that the insults, wild conspiracy theories, and accusations of lying or a sinister agenda are right around the corner.

Sigh.

Um, no. I think progressives are sometimes morally correct and other times morally incorrect. I have three basic objections to progressives. First, your unrelenting attacks on personal liberty. When a person cannot decide what size soda to drink with lunch, that person cannot be called free; he is state chattel. Second, your unrelenting insistence that people have group identities, not individual identities. And third, your unrelenting insistence that America is an evil, racist nation that does literally everything worse than almost every other nation. That doesn't mean that sometimes progressives aren't on the cutting edge of being morally correct, it simply means that you are not always morally correct. People like you who think the left is correct on every issue aren't actually thinking; intellectually you could be replaced with a pointer without any loss of accuracy. As far as conspiracy theories, there are two places where progressives predominate, academia and media. It's hardly an accident that American college students believe slavery is an American invention, and it's hardly an accident that EVERY Republican candidate has more negative coverage than EVERY Democrat candidate.

Israel has exploited America's self imposed guilt trip over the holocaust for 70 years.

Whatever they do, they get a pass, because they're Jewish. Any questions?

You feel that America, the nation that did the most to end the Holocaust, has a "self imposed guilt trip over the holocaust"? I do not think I have ever before encountered that belief.

Happy New Year everybody!

 

[desura]

lol That was pre-Castro Cuba, a much, much different animal. And yes, I'm quite aware that Israel has done some terrible things to the USA and vice versa. In some ways, we're each other's best friend and worst enemy. Israel has done more trading of American military secrets and technology than probably anyone before Bill Clinton. America has armed Egypt with very modern weapon systems, and Egypt is the only Middle Eastern nation with the population, wealth, and military to really be a threat to Israel. But in the Middle East, Israel is the only real friend we have. Saudi Arabia finances the lion's share of radical Islamic fundamentalism which threatens us. Even Jordan turned against us in favor of Iraq.

Honestly, if you look at the Camp David peace between Egypt and Israel...the arming of Egypt is because of Israel. If Israel simply didn't exist, we wouldn't care an iota about Egypt and they wouldn't get jack from us. As I've said before...add up all of the aid in the region, between Israel, Jordan, Egypt, and the Palestinians, and all together, it is like $10 billion a year. The USA pays a shitton for this Jewish state.

Like, I have no problem with Jewish settlers going into Palestine. It's just, they should live and die on their own effort and not someone else's money.

 

[Starbuck1975]

I actually think degraded relations with Israel has been a positive thing. For years we have stood by and done nothing while Israel very obviously undermines the two state solution with settlement activity, tried to undermine the Iran deal, and meddled in our internal politics. Obama finally (at the very end) called a spade a spade. Israel is not our friend.

Israel has and will always act out of its own self interest. The two state solution was never a solution, just a perpetual kicking the can down the road. To me, Israeli settlements are pouring gasoline on a raging fire, but a fire set by those who have sought to destroy Israel since the establishment of a Jewish state.

Obama had eight years to call a spade a spade. But Democrats are rarely tough on Israel, especially when elections are at stake. The Clintons were huge proponents of Israel when Hillary was running for the Senate in NY.

These nth hour passive aggressive shifts in American foreign policy to me are as dangerous as Trump spouting off on Twitter.

What does Obama hope to accomplish? It seems more politically motivated than anything else.