Russian Sanctions Announced

[Moonbeam]

werepossum: Um, no. I think progressives are sometimes morally correct and other times morally incorrect. I have three basic objections to progressives. First, your unrelenting attacks on personal liberty. When a person cannot decide what size soda to drink with lunch, that person cannot be called free; he is state chattel. People will enslave others by their own unhealthy appetites just to make money for themselves. Maybe in a sane culture such people wouldn't just be regulated, but executed as well. Progies are so unambitious.

M: Do you believe that we should be able to buy poached elephant ivory or sell poisons as medicines or foods to people that rely on tax payer health care that cause them to become sick? In the name of your personal freedom religion you have become an idiot,

w: Second, your unrelenting insistence that people have group identities, not individual identities.

M: I call progressive to be unattached to any ego identity.

w: And third, your unrelenting insistence that America is an evil, racist nation that does literally everything worse than almost every other nation. That doesn't mean that sometimes progressives aren't on the cutting edge of being morally correct, it simply means that you are not always morally correct. People like you who think the left is correct on every issue aren't actually thinking; intellectually you could be replaced with a pointer without any loss of accuracy. As far as conspiracy theories, there are two places where progressives predominate, academia and media. It's hardly an accident that American college students believe slavery is an American invention,

M: What you call hardly an accident I call a non-reality.

w: and it's hardly an accident that EVERY Republican candidate has more negative coverage than EVERY Democrat candidate.

M: Jesus, there is no mystery there.



Happy New Year everybody!

 

[Jhhnn]

Israel has and will always act out of its own self interest. The two state solution was never a solution, just a perpetual kicking the can down the road. To me, Israeli settlements are pouring gasoline on a raging fire, but a fire set by those who have sought to destroy Israel since the establishment of a Jewish state.

Obama had eight years to call a spade a spade. But Democrats are rarely tough on Israel, especially when elections are at stake. The Clintons were huge proponents of Israel when Hillary was running for the Senate in NY.

These nth hour passive aggressive shifts in American foreign policy to me are as dangerous as Trump spouting off on Twitter.

What does Obama hope to accomplish? It seems more politically motivated than anything else.

Nth hour passive aggressive shifts? Conservatives have accused Obama of all kinds of bullshit from the beginning-

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...mplete-timeline-of-obamas-anti-israel-hatred/

It's all spin, of course, but it puts the lie to your bullshit.

Want to unite the region against us? Let the Israelis have their way with the Pals. Donald, of course, he ain't skeered. Just foolish.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Nth hour passive aggressive shifts? Conservatives have accused Obama of all kinds of bullshit from the beginning-

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...mplete-timeline-of-obamas-anti-israel-hatred/

It's all spin, of course, but it puts the lie to your bullshit.

Want to unite the region against us? Let the Israelis have their way with the Pals. Donald, of course, he ain't skeered. Just foolish.

I don't read breitbart links. What are you rambling on about now?

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't read breitbart links. What are you rambling on about now?

About your contention that Obama made a nth hour shift wrt Israel. That's obviously not true. He's been at odds with Bibi from the beginning. I don't normally link Breitbart, but they lay out the timeline of Obama's supposed sins towards our very special child.

 

[Starbuck1975]

About your contention that Obama made a nth hour shift wrt Israel. That's obviously not true. He's been at odds with Bibi from the beginning. I don't normally link Breitbart, but they lay out the timeline of Obama's supposed sins towards our very special child.

I never said Obama has been inconsistent. He's been incredibly consistent in changing the tone of US to Israeli relations, and I understand why some are happy that he went down that path.

What I feel was unecessary was the nth hour UN maneuvering and Kerry speech given that the incoming President intends to restore and rekindle our relationship with Israel. Felt more like a middle finger to Israel and Trump than a decision made in our nation's best interests, and was an out of character move for Obama.

 

[IGBT]

I think most of the world will see this differently from how you see it. More like Putin is laughing in Obama's face.

Putin acted like an adult dealing with a teenage girl who is acting out. Nancy Obama is far from finished.

 

[desura]

Well, the United States has been trying to get Israel to accept two-state for its own good, because world opinion is against Israel seeing how 15/16 members did vote for the resolution. What never gets discussed is the option of the United States ever abandoning Israel. Israel never seems to consider that possibility as well. It considers the economic and military aid it receives as entitlements. Those are not entitlements.

The settlements are only possible because of the financial aid the USA gives Israel...for the good of the Israeli people and their security.

What should be discussed is the USA ending aid to Israel completely. It is too bad this older generation who still controls stuff in the USA is so stupid. But once Sheldon Adelson dies...and John McCain dies...and more of these old-timers die, we might start seeing some change.

You know what's the weirdest thing about American politics? How old all of the national politicians are. China has a mandatory retirement age of 65. Their system would never let a Donald Trump lead the entire country.

 

[FIVR]

Obama has been quite graceful in his treatment of Isreal. The problem is that Israel has taken the position that anybody who criticizes their administration of the palestinian territories is by definition an anti-semite targeting Israel unfairly and purely out of spite. They also have a policy of claiming Iran is somehow the great phantom menace behind every single problem that occurs from morocco to Indonesia... which the US parrots unquestioningly. This makes it difficult for Obama to speak truth to power, when he has spent 8 years more or less towing the anti-iranian propaganda line on behalf of a country that hates him it makes him look weak and/or stupid. He should've told bibi to F off a long time ago, but of course he'd never do that.

 

[fskimospy]

Um, no. I think progressives are sometimes morally correct and other times morally incorrect. I have three basic objections to progressives. First, your unrelenting attacks on personal liberty. When a person cannot decide what size soda to drink with lunch, that person cannot be called free; he is state chattel. Second, your unrelenting insistence that people have group identities, not individual identities. And third, your unrelenting insistence that America is an evil, racist nation that does literally everything worse than almost every other nation. That doesn't mean that sometimes progressives aren't on the cutting edge of being morally correct, it simply means that you are not always morally correct. People like you who think the left is correct on every issue aren't actually thinking; intellectually you could be replaced with a pointer without any loss of accuracy. As far as conspiracy theories, there are two places where progressives predominate, academia and media. It's hardly an accident that American college students believe slavery is an American invention, and it's hardly an accident that EVERY Republican candidate has more negative coverage than EVERY Democrat candidate.

This is so wonderfully perfect.

'Progressives act to make Americans state property and unrelentingly insist that America is evil and basically the worst place in the world. The media and academia conspire with them to help enact their vision'. I'm pretty sure this was unintentional but you just proved everything I said about you so much better than I ever could. The comic book demonization of progressives, the conspiracies, everything. Just a pure stream of batshit crazy.

The easiest way to show that people like you are nuts is to just let you guys talk.

You feel that America, the nation that did the most to end the Holocaust, has a "self imposed guilt trip over the holocaust"? I do not think I have ever before encountered that belief.

Happy New Year everybody!

America did not do the most to end the holocaust, the Soviet Union did. (Although I doubt they cared much about ending the holocaust) I'm sure that you will take my statement of this simple historical fact as evidence that I love commies and hope to turn America into Soviet Union West. All hail SUW!

 

[zinfamous]

This is the view of the far left. Israel is not our friend; Red China and Iran and Cuba, those are our friends.

nope.

 

[Jhhnn]

I never said Obama has been inconsistent. He's been incredibly consistent in changing the tone of US to Israeli relations, and I understand why some are happy that he went down that path.

What I feel was unecessary was the nth hour UN maneuvering and Kerry speech given that the incoming President intends to restore and rekindle our relationship with Israel. Felt more like a middle finger to Israel and Trump than a decision made in our nation's best interests, and was an out of character move for Obama.

Our incoming president & Bibi intend to screw the pals, hard, & to make a two state solution impossible. Not that Israel has any intention of granting Pals anything approaching equality in their one state answer, either. Perpetual occupation is fine by Bibi until the opportunity for something else presents itself.

Obama needs to put that squarely on Trump & the Repubs. They'll have to own it & all the consequences.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Our incoming president & Bibi intend to screw the pals, hard, & to make a two state solution impossible. Not that Israel has any intention of granting Pals anything approaching equality in their one state answer, either. Perpetual occupation is fine by Bibi until the opportunity for something else presents itself.

Obama needs to put that squarely on Trump & the Repubs. They'll have to own it & all the consequences.

What do you anticipate those consequences will be? The two state solution was never viable and doomed to failure given the history of the region.

 

[desura]

Our incoming president & Bibi intend to screw the pals, hard, & to make a two state solution impossible. Not that Israel has any intention of granting Pals anything approaching equality in their one state answer, either. Perpetual occupation is fine by Bibi until the opportunity for something else presents itself.

Obama needs to put that squarely on Trump & the Repubs. They'll have to own it & all the consequences.

Looking at how the Palestinians rejected Ehud Barack's offer, it appears to me that they are dead set on using independence to rearm and reignite a ground war with Israel.

The conditions they objected to were Israel controlling certain corridors and the Jordan border so that...weapons weren't imported. Considering how close the West Bank is to Israel, and the subsequent history of Hamas firing rockets, this hardly seems unreasonable.

 

[Jhhnn]

Looking at how the Palestinians rejected Ehud Barack's offer, it appears to me that they are dead set on using independence to rearm and reignite a ground war with Israel.

The conditions they objected to were Israel controlling certain corridors and the Jordan border so that...weapons weren't imported. Considering how close the West Bank is to Israel, and the subsequent history of Hamas firing rockets, this hardly seems unreasonable.

Deflection. None of that justifies more taking via settlement.

 

[Commodus]

Putin acted like an adult dealing with a teenage girl who is acting out. Nancy Obama is far from finished.

You mean the "adult" who has his political opponents and critics murdered?

Putin isn't lashing out because he knows he just has to wait a few weeks until there's a US President who'll kiss his ass. Don't act as if he's more mature than Obama, because he most certainly isn't.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Deflection. None of that justifies more taking via settlement.

I am sure the Israelis would love to deflect the rockets periodically fired on their cities from Palestinian settlements

 

[fskimospy]

I am sure the Israelis would love to deflect the rockets periodically fired on their cities from Palestinian settlements

Yes, both do bad things. This is no way excuses illegal Israeli settlement activity. I would hope we could all agree on that.

 

[FIVR]

I am sure he is just as accommodating and excusing when some bus blows up in Tel Aviv. All bad things, the Israelis do it too, Lehi practically invented the car bomb.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Yes, both do bad things. This is no way excuses illegal Israeli settlement activity. I would hope we could all agree on that.

When you have an entire people who consider Israel to be their historical homeland going back to Biblical times, you are going to have a hard time convincing those people that they cannot build settlements.

I believe some make a similar argument regarding illegal immigration and the indiginous population of the Americas.

 

[fskimospy]

When you have an entire people who consider Israel to be their historical homeland going back to Biblical times, you are going to have a hard time convincing those people that they cannot build settlements.

I believe some make a similar argument regarding illegal immigration and the indiginous population of the Americas.

While they might have a hard time understanding it that just means they lack the proper motivation. We should supply that motivation.

 

[Bitek]

"An American traitor in relation to Israel."

Now, Frankie boy: there are a number of grammatical, geopoltical, and factual errors in that single phrase.

I think you need to double your daily thorazine dose, my boy.

Did I miss where Israel became the 51st state?

Listening to wing nuts you would think so.

It's truly a hell of a post, but that sentence stuck out as particularly illogical on so many levels.

 

[IGBT]

Would ‘petulant child’ Obama have sanctioned Russia if Hillary had won the election?
They saw evidence of hacking back in 2012 , why didn't they combat the problem then .....and the obama put sanctions on Russia without knowing who exactly did it , besides , it wasn't even like it was an attack on the U.S. ...it was the DNC for God's sake.


http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12...sanctioned-russia-hillary-won-election-430154

 

[Commodus]

Would ‘petulant child’ Obama have sanctioned Russia if Hillary had won the election?
They saw evidence of hacking back in 2012 , why didn't they combat the problem then .....and the obama put sanctions on Russia without knowing who exactly did it , besides , it wasn't even like it was an attack on the U.S. ...it was the DNC for God's sake.


http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12...sanctioned-russia-hillary-won-election-430154

Quoting an explicitly pro-conservative site citing a Fox News show where the hosts enthusiastically agree with a Republican President-elect's campaign manager? I can practically hear the circle-jerk sounds from here. That's about as objective as citing Breitbart or DailyKOS... that is, not at all.

It's not certain that Obama would be doing this if Clinton had won the election, but remember that Trump had basically stated that anything less than a win for him would be 'proof' the election was rigged against him. And if a foreign government had hacked the RNC and revealed embarrassing facts about its officials, you'd better believe the party would be crying bloody murder no matter who was President.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Would ‘petulant child’ Obama have sanctioned Russia if Hillary had won the election?
They saw evidence of hacking back in 2012 , why didn't they combat the problem then .....and the obama put sanctions on Russia without knowing who exactly did it , besides , it wasn't even like it was an attack on the U.S. ...it was the DNC for God's sake.


http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/12...sanctioned-russia-hillary-won-election-430154

Every time you post, I feel motivated to donate to non-profits that help children with learning disabilities.

 

[Jhhnn]

What do you anticipate those consequences will be? The two state solution was never viable and doomed to failure given the history of the region.

The consequences are incalculable & the stakes enormous. That alone makes it a really bad idea.

When you have an entire people who consider Israel to be their historical homeland going back to Biblical times, you are going to have a hard time convincing those people that they cannot build settlements.

I believe some make a similar argument regarding illegal immigration and the indiginous population of the Americas.

There were a lot of people living in Palestine prior to 1948 whose families had been there for hundreds of years prior to Zionists moving in & screwing them over for territory that hadn't been a Jewish state for nearly 2000 years.

That's today's Palestinians. It's not like Israeli occupiers will let them build much of anything, either. Quite the contrary.