Russian Sanctions Announced

[Mai72]

Trump's a commie lover and should be treated like so. A traitor. Anyone that agrees and follows Trump should be treated as a traitor. A traitor to America and the free world.

I thought Russia was our enemy?

 

[trenchfoot]

Just wait and see folks, Trump is going to have an righteous epiphany while one of his servants is bathing him in his 25'x25' gilded bathtub one glorious night and then he's going to admit he colluded with Putin to win the presidency, switch over to the Democrat Party (where he doesn't need to lie his ass off anymore) and then he's going to make good on every promise he's ever made to the American people (of which he presently can't because Repub politicians don't ever stoop that low), including actually draining the Swamp of Corruption (instead of the usual Repub habit of rearranging the pecking order the way they like) raising taxes on himself and his billionaire buddies (a heinous capital crime of epic proportions in the GOP bubble) push very hard to raise the minimum wage to $15/hr (another crime of biblical proportions in Ryan Speak) lower taxes of the middle class and the poor by 15% (about the same as what Trump would have given himself if he didn't have THE epiphany) AND then flare out his nostrils, jut his impressive jaw out, fixate that famous glare of his at the health care insurance companies etc. and actually set out to plug the gaping holes in the ACA that the for profit health care industry, etc. wrote for themselves to keep their fat portfolios growing (which will cause many if not ALL Repub legislators to take a flying leap out of the penthouse window at Trump Tower).

This horror story fairy tale (if you're a Trump Trooper) is in response to all of the very truthy fairy tales hailing Trump as the godsend that the people of the nation was hoping for, of which the self-proclaimed Trump Tribunes have been deluding themselves into believing since he popped out of that clown car from never-never land with all of those other reprehensible wanna-be's way back when.

 

[IGBT]

Trump's a commie lover and should be treated like so. A traitor. Anyone that agrees and follows Trump should be treated as a traitor. A traitor to America and the free world.

I thought Russia was our enemy?

"There is no serious person out there who would suggest that you could even rig America's elections...There is no evidence that that has happened in the past, or that there are instances that that could happen this time...So I'd advise Mr. Trump to stop whinning" - Barack Obama, October 2016

 

[Ackmed]

It's a little funny to me, and hypocritical of Obama and those who agree to claim a great thing was done wrong, when the US has took steps to alter other countries elections. Not to mention other acts done against our country by others and what Russia allegedly did in ours was exposing emails that actually shows the Dems trying to rig our election (give questions first). The Dems doing what he's claiming the Russians did.

It's not like Russia is going to let this go, they've already said they'll take actions. Stiring up the pot and then bailing.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's a little funny to me, and hypocritical of Obama and those who agree to claim a great thing was done wrong, when the US has took steps to alter other countries elections. Not to mention other acts done against our country by others and what Russia allegedly did in ours was exposing emails that actually shows the Dems trying to rig our election (give questions first). The Dems doing what he's claiming the Russians did.

It's not like Russia is going to let this go, they've already said they'll take actions. Stiring up the pot and then bailing.

Of course there would be a question about Flint water in a town hall meeting in Flint. Duh! Not to mention that any presidential candidate who didn't have a position on capital punishment isn't ready to be president. Another no-brainer.

Don't fall for the flimflam. Donna Brazile didn't tell anybody anything they didn't already know.

 

[1prophet]

Yeah, seriously, China has done far worse hacking than this. Stealing all of the F35 plans is far worse.

And this is why China is in a superior position than Russia when it comes to sanctions,

Russia hacks you, you impose sanctions, in this case you kick out their diplomats they in turn reciprocate by kicking out yours.

China hacks you, you try to impose sanctions, China threatens American dumbfuck corporations that didn't realize the position they put themselves and America in because they were blinded by outsourcing greed.

Then these hypocritical corporations that didn't give a damn about the American worker, the country or national security as long as the profits were rolling in pull out their "Citizens United I am an American too card" and demand the US government back down under the specter of economic turmoil,

and of course our corporate bought and paid for politicians, Democrat and Republican, oblige them.

 

[Ackmed]

The fact that you're ok with our own government trying to "influence the election", exactly what Obama is alleging Russia of doing, is sad to me. Everyone knew it? Nice excuse.

 

[K1052]

It's a little funny to me, and hypocritical of Obama and those who agree to claim a great thing was done wrong, when the US has took steps to alter other countries elections. Not to mention other acts done against our country by others and what Russia allegedly did in ours was exposing emails that actually shows the Dems trying to rig our election (give questions first). The Dems doing what he's claiming the Russians did.

It's not like Russia is going to let this go, they've already said they'll take actions. Stiring up the pot and then bailing.

So your arguments are:

1) The US has interfered in elections in other nations so Russia interfering in our election is, to the benefit of a specific candidate that shares their world view to the detriment of our national interest, fine. A curious position to say the least.

2) Brazille got some info and passed it on even though it was the political equivalent of "duh" which didn't move the needle at all. The idea that the Russians did us a solid by exposing this basically non-story is laughable. In the history of US elections if you think this really qualifies as the election being rigged you need to do a lot more reading. The continual drip of information from Wikileaks was designed to do sustained damage. Maybe if the Russians ever release the RNC emails we can have a more informed debate on this topic.

 

[K1052]

The fact that you're ok with our own government trying to "influence the election", exactly what Obama is alleging Russia of doing, is sad to me. Everyone knew it? Nice excuse.

Obama didn't sit up at night hacking into the RNC to give that information to the press or the DNC. That you think these things are actually equivalent is what's sad and that you're willing to put the actual interests of the country behind partisanship all the more concerning for our future.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Feel good move and nothing more. It will have zero effect in the long run.

 

[desura]

What the Russians did is really about the same as if they had a SuperPAC running ads. Actually, less than that because political ads end up being propaganda that requires an active hand to prosecute. And I remember how Justice Roberts put it, the solution is more speech.

It is probably more about how the WAPO crowd has been driven into this irrational hatred of Russia and Putin. These bureaucrats crave military operations. They think they're Jessica Chastain in Zero Dark Thirty.

 

[Ackmed]

So your arguments are:

1) The US has interfered in elections in other nations so Russia interfering in our election is, to the benefit of a specific candidate that shares their world view to the detriment of our national interest, fine. A curious position to say the least.

2) Brazille got some info and passed it on even though it was the political equivalent of "duh" which didn't move the needle at all. The idea that the Russians did us a solid by exposing this basically non-story is laughable. In the history of US elections if you think this really qualifies as the election being rigged you need to do a lot more reading. The continual drip of information from Wikileaks was designed to do sustained damage. Maybe if the Russians ever release the RNC emails we can have a more informed debate on this topic.

1. Did I say it was fine? Nope, sure didn't. In fact in the past I have stated several times that if Russia did in fact hack into Podesta's emails and take part in any way of the events that they should be dealt with. Don't assume. My point was that we as a country have put our hand in other countries elections, to get upset and claim another hacked a civilian email and released them is pretty hypocritical. The other part of the point was that other countries have done far worse to us than release emails that we wrote, with far less hub bub.

2. Fact is, Brazille intentionally tried to influence the election. That's a fact, no other reason for her to do what she did. Denying or claiming that it is no big deal is sad. An active government official tried to cheat to help her team out. Not to mention other acts uncovered in the emails. You're assuming the RNC was hacked, when no evidence supports this claim. Except some of our intelligence agencies "believe" it. If they had been, I have stated in the past, that I would love to see the emails. I have also stated that I don't think the RNC behaved any better than the RNC. I have no doubts they acted in similar matter, which is why I would like to see them. I never said Russia did us a solid, again stop assuming.

Some people want it both ways. They want to claim there was nothing damning in the emails, that the Dems did nothing wrong. That the emails prove nothing was done to harm the election. Then the same people want to condemn the leaking of emails because it had an influence on the election. Can't have it both ways. That is what is laughable, among other things. Whoever got the emails did not do anything but expose what our own politicians wrote, in their own words. None of the emails have been refuted. Do I like it? Nope. It's pretty far down on the list compared to other acts that have been taken against our country though.

I don't like any country trying to alter our elections, hack us, or otherwise attack us. It's a pride thing I guess. Those who do should have action taken against them. Russia has denied it flat out, and asked for the US to prove it. I'd like to see the proof myself, gone are the days when I will take our government at its word all the time. If there is proof they should release it, prove Russia to be a liar and make them look foolish in front of the world.

 

[Starbuck1975]

What has the Obama administration been doing for the last eight years relative to counter intelligence? That the Russians were able to blindside us with such an elaborate scheme aimed at swaying out election suggests an operation years in the making. This was not a spontaneous development.

I find it curious that in his closing weeks, Obama is creating foreign policy quagmires in Russia, Israel and Syria. Perhaps Trump deserves to be painted into a corner, as he and his cabinet are ill equipped to deal with such foreign policy matters.

Regardless, these moves somewhat tarnish Obama's legacy, as they seem a bit politically motivated.

If their is evidence of diplomats engaging in espionage, arrest them, try them and if necessary execute them. Otherwise this is all just posturing.

 

[fskimospy]

1. Did I say it was fine? Nope, sure didn't. In fact in the past I have stated several times that if Russia did in fact hack into Podesta's emails and take part in any way of the events that they should be dealt with. Don't assume. My point was that we as a country have put our hand in other countries elections, to get upset and claim another hacked a civilian email and released them is pretty hypocritical. The other part of the point was that other countries have done far worse to us than release emails that we wrote, with far less hub bub.

It's no more hypocritical than any other country for the entirety of human history. We bomb other countries but would be upset if they bombed us.

2. Fact is, Brazille intentionally tried to influence the election. That's a fact, no other reason for her to do what she did. Denying or claiming that it is no big deal is sad. An active government official tried to cheat to help her team out. Not to mention other acts uncovered in the emails. You're assuming the RNC was hacked, when no evidence supports this claim. Except some of our intelligence agencies "believe" it. If they had been, I have stated in the past, that I would love to see the emails. I have also stated that I don't think the RNC behaved any better than the RNC. I have no doubts they acted in similar matter, which is why I would like to see them. I never said Russia did us a solid, again stop assuming.

Uhmmmm, Donna Brazille is NOT a government official.

Some people want it both ways. They want to claim there was nothing damning in the emails, that the Dems did nothing wrong. That the emails prove nothing was done to harm the election. Then the same people want to condemn the leaking of emails because it had an influence on the election. Can't have it both ways. That is what is laughable, among other things. Whoever got the emails did not do anything but expose what our own politicians wrote, in their own words. None of the emails have been refuted. Do I like it? Nope. It's pretty far down on the list compared to other acts that have been taken against our country though.

Of course you can have it both ways. Emails taken out of context can sound bad and influence the election while at the same time showing no wrongdoing. It happens all the time.

I don't like any country trying to alter our elections, hack us, or otherwise attack us. It's a pride thing I guess. Those who do should have action taken against them. Russia has denied it flat out, and asked for the US to prove it. I'd like to see the proof myself, gone are the days when I will take our government at its word all the time. If there is proof they should release it, prove Russia to be a liar and make them look foolish in front of the world.

All the time? You might as well say none of the time. If you won't accept the unanimous judgment of every US intelligence agency along with numerous private analysts because the Russian government denied it then that's pretty hopeless. We should probably disband our entire intelligence community then as you don't seem to think it serves a purpose?

 

[fskimospy]

What has the Obama administration been doing for the last eight years relative to counter intelligence? That the Russians were able to blindside us with such an elaborate scheme aimed at swaying out election suggests an operation years in the making. This was not a spontaneous development.

What about this scheme was elaborate? It was actually super simple.

I find it curious that in his closing weeks, Obama is creating foreign policy quagmires in Russia, Israel and Syria. Perhaps Trump deserves to be painted into a corner, as he and his cabinet are ill equipped to deal with such foreign policy matters.

Regardless, these moves somewhat tarnish Obama's legacy, as they seem a bit politically motivated.

If their is evidence of diplomats engaging in espionage, arrest them, try them and if necessary execute them. Otherwise this is all just posturing.

Mass executions of a foreign country's diplomats sounds like one of the worst foreign policy ideas in history.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's no more hypocritical than any other country for the entirety of human history. We bomb other countries but would be upset if they bombed us.



Uhmmmm, Donna Brazille is NOT a government official.



Of course you can have it both ways. Emails taken out of context can sound bad and influence the election while at the same time showing no wrongdoing. It happens all the time.



All the time? You might as well say none of the time. If you won't accept the unanimous judgment of every US intelligence agency along with numerous private analysts because the Russian government denied it then that's pretty hopeless. We should probably disband our entire intelligence community then as you don't seem to think it serves a purpose?

He already fell for the flimflam. You can't talk him out of it now. Feels too good.

 

[fskimospy]

He already fell for the flimflam. You can't talk him out of it now. Feels too good.

It is kind of amazing what people come to believe and how facts twist in people's minds over time. For example, Brazille's question controversy involved her work within the Democratic Party and took place during the primary. In his mind this somehow became Brazille being a government official (false), helping the Democratic Party against the Republicans (also false).

 

[K1052]

1. Did I say it was fine? Nope, sure didn't. In fact in the past I have stated several times that if Russia did in fact hack into Podesta's emails and take part in any way of the events that they should be dealt with. Don't assume. My point was that we as a country have put our hand in other countries elections, to get upset and claim another hacked a civilian email and released them is pretty hypocritical. The other part of the point was that other countries have done far worse to us than release emails that we wrote, with far less hub bub.

Countries act in their interests, hypocrisy notwithstanding. It was not in our interest to have Russia interfere in our election...which is the broad consensus of the agencies who evaluate this kind of thing. I am perfectly free to be upset that they meddled in ours.

2. Fact is, Brazille intentionally tried to influence the election. That's a fact, no other reason for her to do what she did. Denying or claiming that it is no big deal is sad. An active government official tried to cheat to help her team out. Not to mention other acts uncovered in the emails. You're assuming the RNC was hacked, when no evidence supports this claim. Except some of our intelligence agencies "believe" it. If they had been, I have stated in the past, that I would love to see the emails. I have also stated that I don't think the RNC behaved any better than the RNC. I have no doubts they acted in similar matter, which is why I would like to see them. I never said Russia did us a solid, again stop assuming.

As noted above she isn't part of the government. Politics is a rough sport and if you aren't willing to play you aren't in the game. You were casting a positive light on the act like the Russians did us a favor by showing us the eval corrupt DNC (from your viewpoint). From what I've seen the RNC did appear to get hacked but of course that info somehow didn't make it from Putin's hands to Wilkileaks. Figuring out why is not a great leap of logic.

Some people want it both ways. They want to claim there was nothing damning in the emails, that the Dems did nothing wrong. That the emails prove nothing was done to harm the election. Then the same people want to condemn the leaking of emails because it had an influence on the election. Can't have it both ways. That is what is laughable, among other things. Whoever got the emails did not do anything but expose what our own politicians wrote, in their own words. None of the emails have been refuted. Do I like it? Nope. It's pretty far down on the list compared to other acts that have been taken against our country though.

The emails were basically a big pile of nothing. They did let the propaganda machine work it's magic to make it seem to the uniformed like nefarious things were going on but all it really exposed was the workings of basically any political party. People aren't going to agree. People are going to have favorites. This is what happens in house and it isn't immoral, illegal, or even the slightest bit unusual.

I don't like any country trying to alter our elections, hack us, or otherwise attack us. It's a pride thing I guess. Those who do should have action taken against them. Russia has denied it flat out, and asked for the US to prove it. I'd like to see the proof myself, gone are the days when I will take our government at its word all the time. If there is proof they should release it, prove Russia to be a liar and make them look foolish in front of the world.

I don't expect the government to release classified information every time in order to prove something to me. Either we have at least some limited faith in these institutions, which are from time to time wrong as a matter of course, or we don't. It seems the congresspeople who've been briefed generally agree with their conclusions on this matter. Given Russia's extremely well documented propensity for lying, propaganda, misinformation, and other tactics they regularly employ I'd say the burden of proof is on them to convince us of their innocence at this point.

 

[FIVR]

You'll never convince people like him, he's a well fed pawn of the Russian propaganda machine that the US has apparently just figured out exists, and can in fact target America. It's actually a huge indictment of every US intelligence agency that the Russians succeeded. Personally I think every single top analyst assigned to Russia at the CIA, FBI, and DIA should be put up for review and if they are found to have had any information on this they should be removed. The heads of every one of the intelligence agencies ought to be fired for this... they dropped the ball.

 

[realibrad]

It's no more hypocritical than any other country for the entirety of human history. We bomb other countries but would be upset if they bombed us.



Uhmmmm, Donna Brazille is NOT a government official.



Of course you can have it both ways. Emails taken out of context can sound bad and influence the election while at the same time showing no wrongdoing. It happens all the time.



All the time? You might as well say none of the time. If you won't accept the unanimous judgment of every US intelligence agency along with numerous private analysts because the Russian government denied it then that's pretty hopeless. We should probably disband our entire intelligence community then as you don't seem to think it serves a purpose?

Does it have to be either or? For me, I see the intelligence agencies being far too political and biased to be 100% trustworthy. I would imagine you too right now feel that the FBI and its current director.

The claim that Russia hacked is big. There are probably bigger things but we have never heard of them. To publicly claim that Russia did it though is pretty big and that is not nothing, but I think we should still get more than the word of officials. I think some breakdown of what happened would go a long way personally.

 

[Jhhnn]

What has the Obama administration been doing for the last eight years relative to counter intelligence? That the Russians were able to blindside us with such an elaborate scheme aimed at swaying out election suggests an operation years in the making. This was not a spontaneous development.

I find it curious that in his closing weeks, Obama is creating foreign policy quagmires in Russia, Israel and Syria. Perhaps Trump deserves to be painted into a corner, as he and his cabinet are ill equipped to deal with such foreign policy matters.

Regardless, these moves somewhat tarnish Obama's legacy, as they seem a bit politically motivated.

If their is evidence of diplomats engaging in espionage, arrest them, try them and if necessary execute them. Otherwise this is all just posturing.

Your concern is touching, in that usual bad touching sort of way.

Ejection of diplomats is a common way for a country to express displeasure with another. It's been that way for hundreds of years.

We already have an imbroglio with the Russians over Ukraine & Syria.

The US & the rest of the world have never granted Israel the right to dispossess the Pals. Our Israeli friends have lied to us every inch of the way wrt "seeking peace" & the two state solution. Their actions wrt settlements & now Bibi's own words reveal that to be true. Trump's new ambassador to Israel & Ivanka's father in law have long supported the most radical settlers. Friedman recently offered this-

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.726779

Of course Obama let the UN resolution pass. He has to put this squarely on the Trump Admin where it belongs wherever it goes. Trump has to brand it to do it. I'm sure he will.

Syria? Wut? Trump told the Russians to take care of it, and they will. Trump rendered us irrelevant, not Obama.

 

[Jhhnn]

You'll never convince people like him, he's a well fed pawn of the Russian propaganda machine that the US has apparently just figured out exists, and can in fact target America. It's actually a huge indictment of every US intelligence agency that the Russians succeeded. Personally I think every single top analyst assigned to Russia at the CIA, FBI, and DIA should be put up for review and if they are found to have had any information on this they should be removed. The heads of every one of the intelligence agencies ought to be fired for this... they dropped the ball.

WTF are you talking about? None of the leaked information came from govt sources but rather private sources.

 

[fskimospy]

Does it have to be either or? For me, I see the intelligence agencies being far too political and biased to be 100% trustworthy. I would imagine you too right now feel that the FBI and its current director.

No, I don't feel that way about the FBI and its director, why would I? His actions were foolish, unprofessional, and self serving, but I don't think he was deliberately trying to elect Trump. I imagine Comey thinks Trump is as big of an idiot as the rest of us do.

Of course intel agencies can have their own motivations, but if you can't accept the unanimous judgement of every intelligence agency as the most likely answer absent significant evidence otherwise then your course of action is clear: disband all intelligence agencies and pocket the money.

The claim that Russia hacked is big. There are probably bigger things but we have never heard of them. To publicly claim that Russia did it though is pretty big and that is not nothing, but I think we should still get more than the word of officials. I think some breakdown of what happened would go a long way personally.

That's already been provided, including IP addresses, aliases, and signatures associated with Russian intelligence.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3248231/Report-on-Russian-Hacking.pdf

 

[fskimospy]

You'll never convince people like him, he's a well fed pawn of the Russian propaganda machine that the US has apparently just figured out exists, and can in fact target America. It's actually a huge indictment of every US intelligence agency that the Russians succeeded. Personally I think every single top analyst assigned to Russia at the CIA, FBI, and DIA should be put up for review and if they are found to have had any information on this they should be removed. The heads of every one of the intelligence agencies ought to be fired for this... they dropped the ball.

It's interesting to watch you try and shift your character from someone who routinely quotes Russian propaganda to concern trolling like this.

Do you think you're fooling anyone?

 

[VRAMdemon]

Lol...If Obama doesn't act like Putin, he's weak. If he acts just a little bit like Putin, he should be less like Putin.

Stay tuned for the next 4 years, wherein every single bad thing that happens will be Obama's fault, and every good thing that happens will be Trump's triumph. Trump is already taking credit for business decisions that were made over a year ago.

Dismissal of Russia's hacking the election is mystifying to those of us who value things like democracy, civil rights. In the name of global stability, there's absolutely no reason for the U.S. to abandon its European allies for a idiot like Putin. In the name of personal enrichment with no regard for little folk, it makes perfect sense for the man who acts on behalf of oligarchs in Russia to join forces with the man who acts on behalf of wannabe oligarchs in the U.S.

The more stuff Trump ignores in favour of cultivating US - Russian relations (or Trump-Rubel relations) the deeper in it Trump's going to be if Putin decides to emasculate him by pulling another stunt. Like another Crimea. Transnistria, maybe. (Moldova's UN, but not NATO. So another middle finger to the international community while still not actually crossing any thick red lines.

The deeper "Trump luuuvs Russia" is engrained in the electorate the greater the potential fall. It might not stick. There may be no fall. We shall see. But there's really no cost to Obama doing this so Trump can't wiggle out of it.