Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

Page 430 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
D

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,581
3,094
136
Side note on Moskva: this really is embarrassing for Russian Navy, how they spin it domestically will be interesting.

If in fact it was hit by 2 Neptune missiles, that is an epic failure ~ the Moskva is specifically designed as an anti-air, anti-cruise missile defense platform, just as much as it is an offensive missile platform. 64 S-300's to intercept cruise missiles (or aircraft), 6 CIWS point defense guns, plus short range air defense missiles.

Edit: Picture with armament highlighted, thanks wiki
1649892820390.png
"4" are the AK-630 - 30mm "fully automatic" point defense cannons (CIWS)
"5" are the S-300 launchers (8! launchers, 64 missile inventory)
"6" is short range OSA-M SAM
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: [DHT]Osiris and Roger Wilco
KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,172
42,224
136
iu


Soviet designers liked to put a lot of stuff that goes boom on the deck

www.navalnews.com

Russia's Most Powerful Warship In The Black Sea Is Operating In A Pattern - Naval News

The Ukrainian Navy was no match for the massive concentration of Russian naval forces in the Black Sea. Yet Russia's most impressive warship there, the Slava class cruiser Moskva, has mostly remained out of sight. We can shine a light on what she has been up to so far in the war.
www.navalnews.com www.navalnews.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: mooncancook, Roger Wilco, Leeea and 2 others
P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,045
7,974
136
dullard said:
You can start by reading article 1 of the North Atlantic Treaty

The North Atlantic Treaty

www.nato.int www.nato.int


Military dispute resolutions are possible, see Article 5. It is just that military resolutions should be the last resort or for defense, not the first resort for offense. Article 5 is how NATO justified the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a defense against the 911 attacks. Although that was a historically sketchy decision, that is the decision they made in less than one day from the first 911 attack. When you are in the middle of an attack, you don't get the benefit of 20-20 hindsight.
Click to expand...

To say they were "sketchy" is putting it mildly. Especially with respect to Iraq, the justification for which was beyond "sketchy" and had nothing to do with 911. Then there's Kosovo and Libya (the latter of which was ostensibly a "no fly zone" but in reality involved providing air support for one side in a civil war - leaving the country in ruins)

Besides, there's not exactly a shortage of examples of NATO member states individually invading sovereign countries (the US in Haiti, Panama, Grenada, Cuba, The Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam, or Turkey in Cyprus and Kurdistan) , as opposed to NATO as a collective entity - so I just don't see how it can be claimed that a habit of "invading sovereign countries" is some sort of insurmountable barrier to NATO membership.

(The UK and France were NATO members at the time of the Suez debacle, come to that.)

Anyway, it doesn't change the unjustified nature of this war, but that argument for not allowing Russia in NATO just doesn't stand up.
 
Pens1566

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,577
8,030
136
Dave_5k said:
Yep, Project 1164 missile cruiser "Moskva" is the current flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet.

Edit: I searched but couldn't find any cost information on it as I was curious. For comparison, the US Ticonderoga class is about 1/3 smaller, with a unit cost of about $1 billion ~ but that was of course at inflated US shipbuilding costs. So maybe ending up in same ballpark given the extra tonnage.

Although I've read both of the remaining 2 Project 1164 "Slava"-class cruisers were also moved either into or near the Black Sea before invasion (at very least to the Med - to counter US fleet). Russia only has 3 of these cruisers in service. "The Moskva is the flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet and Marshal Ustinov is the flagship of the Russian Northern Fleet. Varyag is the flagship of the Russian Pacific Fleet."
Click to expand...

Such a shame their naval assets aren't taking the same beating the land ones are. This is a nice first step, but it would be fulfilling to see some of their vaunted sea power disappear as well.
 
K1052

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,037
33,051
136
Dave_5k said:
No, it is too late. The last Soviet battleship retired in 1956 ;) Which is how these 3 2 "Slava"-class missile cruisers are all fleet flagships now.
Click to expand...

Curses and incoherent screaming certainly emanating from the Kremlin right now.
 
Pens1566

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,577
8,030
136
JTsyo said:
I don't think Iraq was under Article 5. Bush used WMDs excuse to go after Iraq not links of Al-Qaeda. The legal aspect of it came through the UN SC.
Click to expand...

Correct. Article 5 has only ever been invoked as a result of 9/11. Iraq was a UN action the first time (liberating Kuwait). Was just "lets go get WMDs" the 2nd.
 
D

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,581
3,094
136
Side note: Although I think the other 2 Slava cruisers are in the Med, they shouldn't be allowed to go to Black Sea - as that is not their home port. Assuming Turkey sticks to the letter of the Montreux Convention that they have officially earlier invoked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Meghan54 and Leeea
dullard

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,059
3,410
126
JTsyo said:
I don't think Iraq was under Article 5. Bush used WMDs excuse to go after Iraq not links of Al-Qaeda. The legal aspect of it came through the UN SC.
Click to expand...
According to NATO it did.
www.nato.int

Countering terrorism

Terrorism poses a direct threat to the security of the citizens of NATO countries, and to international stability and prosperity. It is a persistent global threat that knows no border, nationality or religion, and is a challenge that the international community must tackle together. NATO will...
www.nato.int www.nato.int
  • NATO invoked its collective defence clause (Article 5) for the first and only time in response to the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001 on the United States
  • NATO trains, advises and assists Iraqi security forces and institutions through NATO Mission Iraq and is a member of the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS
Click to expand...
The judgement that Article 5 was to be implemented was made on the day of the Sept 11 attacks. That meant Article 5 was in effect almost a month BEFORE Bush falsely used WMDs as excuses.
 
D

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,581
3,094
136
In just as important of news:
www.reuters.com

EXCLUSIVE Oil traders to cut Russian oil purchases from May 15 - sources

Major global trading houses are planning to reduce crude and fuel purchases from Russia's state-controlled oil companies as early as May 15, sources said, to avoid falling foul of European Union sanctions on Russia.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Inability to insure (at reasonable cost) any shipping from Russia, combined with EU sanctions that only allow "strictly necessary" energy purchases from Russia, leading to many traders backing away from Russian oil as soon as existing contracts expire.

IEA estimates Russian crude sales could be reduced by 3 million barrels per day starting in May.

And even when Russia is selling crude, the price is getting... ugly - extra $30/bbl discount to sell Russian crude hurts just as much as that 3 million barrel per day potential lost sales volume.
1649896165473.png
Datasource: Thomson Reuters
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: KMFJD, zinfamous and Roger Wilco
R

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,382
3,111
146
dullard said:
According to NATO it did.
www.nato.int

Countering terrorism

Terrorism poses a direct threat to the security of the citizens of NATO countries, and to international stability and prosperity. It is a persistent global threat that knows no border, nationality or religion, and is a challenge that the international community must tackle together. NATO will...
www.nato.int www.nato.int

The judgement that Article 5 was to be implemented was made on the day of the Sept 11 attacks. That meant Article 5 was in effect almost a month BEFORE Bush falsely used WMDs as excuses.
Click to expand...

Iraq was separate from Afghanistan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thump553
L

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,623
5,365
136
K1052 said:
Yeow

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514398732611211271
Click to expand...

The Russians have confirmed an ammunition explosion.

If it rolled over on its side after being struck, they are mostly dead. Heavy storm, winter seas, no chance at all.

This ship had a massive S300 - S400 equivalent anti-air craft battery on board, covering much of southern Ukraine. This is very good news for Ukraine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KMFJD and Dave_5k
Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Lifer
Nov 17, 2019
10,797
6,461
136
"It has been confirmed that the missile cruiser Moskva today went exactly where the border guards on Snake Island told it to go," he said in an online post. Ukraine's defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment.

www.reuters.com

Russia says ammunition blast damages flagship of Black Sea fleet - Interfax

The flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet, the Moskva missile cruiser, was badly damaged when ammunition on board blew up, Interfax news agency quoted the defence ministry as saying on Thursday.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com


TeeHee-TeeHee
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom