Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,445
43,075
136
cytg111 said:
So. The Wagner Group is in Ukraine now, you know, the private militia that Putin uses when he wants plausible deniability.
Private army. Hired by Putin. To fight vs Ukraine.
Sooooo “Private armies” are fair game now. Right? And get the f planes in there…
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If putin is so concerned about Nazi''s, what's he doing with this guy?

Wagner-Group.jpg
 
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burninatortech4

burninatortech4

Senior member
Jan 29, 2014
683
408
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Alleged FSB leak says this is over by May (whether they "win" or lose) because the Russian economy will collapse by then. If not sooner. Where does everyone see this going by May?
 
G

GoshaMaster

Junior Member
Jul 20, 2001
23
2
71
fskimospy said:
L

You were hilariously wrong about everything related to this issue. Why should anyone think you’re less wrong now?
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He is not totally wrong. How I know, I was born and raised in Kharkiv. I still have family and many friends there. What we see in the news and on tv is many times worse. My beautiful city and country is being destroyed. Many historical buildings even survived WWII, while were destroyed now. It’s already humanitarian crisis there, as many people unable to leave while bombing continues. Many old people like my parents in law are too ill or scared to travel. I am in no way want a WWIII, but NATO just can’t seat and watch while thousands of innocent people are killed. I don’t believe that Russia is ready to start nuclear war, so no fly zone has to be implemented as soon as possible. The longer we wait, the worse it will get.
 
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F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,354
48,616
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GoshaMaster said:
He is not totally wrong. How I know, I was born and raised in Kharkiv. I still have family and many friends there. What we see in the news and on tv is many times worse. My beautiful city and country is being destroyed. Many historical buildings even survived WWII, while were destroyed now. It’s already humanitarian crisis there, as many people unable to leave while bombing continues. Many old people like my parents in law are too ill or scared to travel. I am in no way want a WWIII, but NATO just can’t seat and watch while thousands of innocent people are killed. I don’t believe that Russia is ready to start nuclear war, so no fly zone has to be implemented as soon as possible. The longer we wait, the worse it will get.
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So you agree with him that Russia will not invade and that people saying otherwise are engaging in hysteria?
 
D

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
GoshaMaster said:
He is not totally wrong. How I know, I was born and raised in Kharkiv. I still have family and many friends there. What we see in the news and on tv is many times worse. My beautiful city and country is being destroyed. Many historical buildings even survived WWII, while were destroyed now. It’s already humanitarian crisis there, as many people unable to leave while bombing continues. Many old people like my parents in law are too ill or scared to travel. I am in no way want a WWIII, but NATO just can’t seat and watch while thousands of innocent people are killed. I don’t believe that Russia is ready to start nuclear war, so no fly zone has to be implemented as soon as possible. The longer we wait, the worse it will get.
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So, your point is 100% valid.

But senseamp is getting flak not because of anything to do with a no-fly-zone, but because he spent the first several dozen pages being a complete ass.
 
pete6032

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
7,543
3,089
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How is Russia losing so many aircraft? Is their aircraft just not capable of avoiding stinger missiles? You hardly ever hear about US planes being shot down in Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,274
15,046
136
pete6032 said:
How is Russia losing so many aircraft? Is their aircraft just not capable of avoiding stinger missiles? You hardly ever hear about US planes being shot down in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Did Iraq and Afghanistan have stingers?
 
D

DisarmedDespot

Senior member
Jun 2, 2016
587
588
136
pete6032 said:
How is Russia losing so many aircraft? Is their aircraft just not capable of avoiding stinger missiles? You hardly ever hear about US planes being shot down in Iraq or Afghanistan.
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There's probably multiple factors, honestly.
  • The Taliban, Iraqi army and the subsequent insurgencies didn't have all that many man-portable AA missiles. Currently in Ukraine, there's damn near one behind every car, tree and particularly large rock.
  • Compared to their Russian counterpart, the US air force is filthy rich and can probably afford a lot more training than the Russians
  • Russia just doesn't know how to operate in a hostile airspace correctly. IIRC during the Georgia war they failed to suppress the Georgian's AA defense systems as well.
  • Russia's planning for this is probably still shoddy. there might be increasing pressure to show results, leading to aircraft being used in situations they really shouldn't be, because they think it will take just a little more pressure to win the engagement.
 
D

Dave_5k

Golden Member
May 23, 2017
1,610
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Mariupol, hundreds of thousands of civilians, in dire straits. No heat, no power, no water for 5+ days, and no supplies getting in with constant Russian shelling of everything. No reporting getting out of smaller cities along invasion routes, communications cut, some with 90+% of buildings shelled. No way that civilian casualties aren't into the tens of thousands, but uncountable as they can't even recover bodies.
www.bbc.com

Siege of Mariupol: Fresh Russian attacks throw evacuation into chaos

Mass evacuation postponed because of continued Russian shelling.
www.bbc.com
At what point does the world step up and call Putin on this genocide?
 
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GoshaMaster

Junior Member
Jul 20, 2001
23
2
71
fskimospy said:
So you agree with him that Russia will not invade and that people saying otherwise are engaging in hysteria?
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I only meant to agree on implementing no fly zone. This is the only way I see to prevent massive casualties of civilians and possibly end this war. Economic sanctions will not stop him any time soon. Russia is mostly rural and people living there won't see impact of sanctions for a while. They only watch propaganda tv stations and love Putin no matter what. If his army takes over Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia will be probably next. He made it clear that break up of Soviet Union was a huge mistake and should have never happened.
 
Zorba

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,688
10,111
136
DisarmedDespot said:
There's probably multiple factors, honestly.
  • The Taliban, Iraqi army and the subsequent insurgencies didn't have all that many man-portable AA missiles. Currently in Ukraine, there's damn near one behind every car, tree and particularly large rock.
  • Compared to their Russian counterpart, the US air force is filthy rich and can probably afford a lot more training than the Russians
  • Russia just doesn't know how to operate in a hostile airspace correctly. IIRC during the Georgia war they failed to suppress the Georgian's AA defense systems as well.
  • Russia's planning for this is probably still shoddy. there might be increasing pressure to show results, leading to aircraft being used in situations they really shouldn't be, because they think it will take just a little more pressure to win the engagement.
Click to expand...
US Aircraft have IRCM pods, also, at least a lot of them.
 
senseamp

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
pete6032 said:
How is Russia losing so many aircraft? Is their aircraft just not capable of avoiding stinger missiles? You hardly ever hear about US planes being shot down in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Click to expand...
I heard they are running out of precision munitions, but aren't ready to carpet bomb from strategic bombers yet. So they are using their planes as attack aircraft, which means flying low enough to be within range of Stingers. I fear they will switch to carpet bombing if the losses are too high from this technique.
 
cytg111

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,369
12,960
136
burninatortech4 said:
Alleged FSB leak says this is over by May (whether they "win" or lose) because the Russian economy will collapse by then. If not sooner. Where does everyone see this going by May?
Click to expand...
I have NO idea… way too volatile for me to predict anything…
 
brandonbull

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
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Wreckem said:
Russian isn’t just using cannon fodder.

Several notable military leaders for Russian and their partners have been KIA. Multiple units of special forces have been KIA. Their equipment loss is reaching staggeringly high numbers in both unit and costs. These units aren’t going to ever be replaced.

In less than a week they have lost more people and more hardware than the US lost in two decades in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

Their losses are unsustainable. Even if they can capture major cities they dont have the ability to control them for that long.

The only thing they can do to takeover Ukraine at this point Is leveling the entire country with conventional WMDs or worse. They do that their country will suffer the same fate as NK for the next fifty years.
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Looks like another rule of warfare is not attacking the Ukraine in the winter time.
 
E

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,398
3,467
126
Zorba said:
Starting to think the MiG-29s are just Lucy with the football.

I wonder if we'd give them new F-16s in exchange for their old, un-updated MiGs, or if we'll pull some F-16As out of AMARG.
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I'm guessing the goal is to get them aircraft they already know how to fly. F-16s would most likely require a decent amount of training coming from Mig-29s
 
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