Russia on brink of ... NOPE! Russia INVADES Ukraine!

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allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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A/// and kage69

You can take it to conversation or put each other on ignore or meet somewhere and duke it out, but what you can't do is continue this Quien es mas macho? squabbling in the thread. A word to the wise...

Administrator allisolm
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
13,126
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Adding to the rant, what really drives home how the world changes every 10-14 years through a big pivotal movement is I got done reading an article this morning about a Marine bootcamp in Arkansas, I believe, and it was all these young enlisted who were born after 9/11. These young ones have no concept of a world before 9/11. Their drill instructors were infants or very young children during 9/11.

2010-2014 brought changes like a world where Isis existed, a major invasion by a quasi super power into a helpless at the time country rife with corruption but rapidly improving from that, to that then helpless nation driving out their occupiers after being fully invaded. Humanity has been on a tick-tock nature of major pivotal changes every decade or so.

You're a bit lucky. You were too young to understand what the Soviets were like back then, but you bore the pain of 9/11 as you were in your early 20s in 2001. Your life rapidly changed then.

Now that you are in your 40s, much like me when I turned 40 years ago, you'll ask yourself what's next on the horizon for this blue planet.
Close on timing, I'm 40 now, was in HS on 9/11. I don't have high hopes for the next 40 if you read any of my other posts, but I agree with you, we live in very interesting times. I don't miss the bomb drills, though. Yeah, they still had those when I was in elementary, in TX at least.
 
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A///

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Feb 24, 2017
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Close on timing, I'm 40 now, was in HS on 9/11. I don't have high hopes for the next 40 if you read any of my other posts, but I agree with you, we live in very interesting times. I don't miss the bomb drills, though. Yeah, they still had those when I was in elementary, in TX at least.
We had drills as a child in case of nuclear war. We lived way down south of London in a village like place, close to the coastline to give you an idea. As an adult when I began to read about nuclear energy and how the bombs worked and their devastation, I questioned just what the hell adults were thinking then. Hiding under a desk or a coat closet????

At the same time we were dealing with our own messes. We were definitely far away from an IRA activity but it still didn't stop people from crapping their pants if they saw someone who didn't fit in the area or had an Irish accent. Coincidentally we did have some close calls in the village because most people either had family in targeted areas or had been there days prior to an attack. It's a little different from now where you'll find people eying up someone with a middle eastern or olive complexion and suspect them of being up to no good. But when the people look like you? That's worse. My family narrowly missed an attack by a few days. I forget which one it was. Dad had something come up and we needed to go earlier than we had to. I'm quite certain my father, days later, had to have a change of his trousers when he heard the news of what happened. Prior to this, dad wasn't too thrilled he had to drop everything at a moment's notice and be stuck on the road for a long time with crabby kids half awake. Days later he was thankful for his work interrupting his premade plans.

When I do retire I'm moving back, but to the countryside. Far from anything harmful other than teenagers puking their guts out having had too much shit wine. Damn shame because I've lived in the middle of nowhere in the US before and loved the atmosphere of it all. Too much crime these days.


None of this has much to do with what's going on in Ukraine, but to a point it's like brothers fighting against each other. I've read countless reports of people having to go to war and knowing they're fighting cousins or other relatives on the Russian side and it is painful for them. I suppose in a way that's how the Yugoslav wars were like, althought I'm not very educated on the matters that happened in the 90s. Too depressing to read about it all.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Now that you are in your 40s, much like me when I turned 40 years ago, you'll ask yourself what's next on the horizon for this blue planet.
China has vowed armed conflict over their right to kill off Taiwan.
Russia has already declared anyone not serving them a "Nazi", aka fit for extermination.
Death and destruction is promised by our enemies.

World War 3 is only beginning.
This does not end in Ukraine.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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China has vowed armed conflict over their right to kill off Taiwan.
Russia has already declared anyone not serving them a "Nazi", aka fit for extermination.
Death and destruction is promised by our enemies.

World War 3 is only beginning.
This does not end in Ukraine.
Recent simulations report I read that China would be destroyed economically and militarily, Taiwan would suffer great losses of life, but such a war would effectively destroy the global economy for years to come. Maybe China can heed the warning of what's happening to Russia. We're only giving Ukraine the basics of what they need to accomplish their goals. We haven't thrown everything we can give them to them to take Russia on. Bluster after bluster they make Ukraine's job easier of destroying them.
 
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rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
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From my understanding it's similar to our patriot system, semi-modular with radar components, control/integration components, and actual launchers that can vary in count. It sounds like this one was bristling, with a bunch of ammo to boot. As for why it failed at its job? No idea, UKR tactics combined with 'because Russia'? And no, that was $1.2B USD. It was a very high profile kill, relatively speaking.

An S400 battery should be integrated with s300, Buk, Pantsir, combat air patrol, etc and not be using its own missiles to intercept what a cheaper missile can.

US plans to destroy S400 basically involved saturating a battery with so much ordinance that it ran out of missiles. It seems like it doesn’t perform as well as it should, probably doesn’t integrate as well as it should, and probably was also poorly implemented in this case with a view to just intercepting the odd cruise missile or whatever. They likely were naive about Ukrainian abilities and not prepared.
 

RnR_au

Golden Member
Jun 6, 2021
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Bits and pieces I have come across this morning;

As someone said, if you have noone to rotate in, you can't rotate folk out...
1694824400323.png
Source

Another ship might have taken a hit in the last few days...
1694824434622.png
Source

Small arms stuff perhaps. Maybe even artillery. If this is true, it also means that China knows about it and approves...
1694824508667.png
Source
 
Nov 17, 2019
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It seems like it doesn’t perform as well as it should, probably doesn’t integrate as well as it should, and probably was also poorly implemented in this case with a view to just intercepting the odd cruise missile or whatever. They likely were naive about Ukrainian abilities and not prepared.



Or it may be verification of rumors of their untrained forces.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
44,711
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An S400 battery should be integrated with s300, Buk, Pantsir, combat air patrol, etc and not be using its own missiles to intercept what a cheaper missile can.

US plans to destroy S400 basically involved saturating a battery with so much ordinance that it ran out of missiles. It seems like it doesn’t perform as well as it should, probably doesn’t integrate as well as it should, and probably was also poorly implemented in this case with a view to just intercepting the odd cruise missile or whatever. They likely were naive about Ukrainian abilities and not prepared.

I'm beginning to suspect Russia has a shortage of short and medium range systems given their commitments (Southern Ukraine, Donbas, and uh much of Russia within 500-800km or so). This shortage is probably made worse by the AFU blowing up many such systems especially in Zapo.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,352
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An S400 battery should be integrated with s300, Buk, Pantsir, combat air patrol, etc and not be using its own missiles to intercept what a cheaper missile can.

US plans to destroy S400 basically involved saturating a battery with so much ordinance that it ran out of missiles. It seems like it doesn’t perform as well as it should, probably doesn’t integrate as well as it should, and probably was also poorly implemented in this case with a view to just intercepting the odd cruise missile or whatever. They likely were naive about Ukrainian abilities and not prepared.
Does make you wonder if Erdogan is thinking so highly of himself after giving the US the proverbial middle finger and buying that piece of shit S400 system. No new Block F16's and no F35's.
 
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Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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I'm beginning to suspect Russia has a shortage of short and medium range systems given their commitments (Southern Ukraine, Donbas, and uh much of Russia within 500-800km or so). This shortage is probably made worse by the AFU blowing up many such systems especially in Zapo.
Yeah, quite likely. Having to place Pantsir systems on various rooftops in Moscow (and near Putin's residence) hasn't helped front line availability either.
 

Dave_5k

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May 23, 2017
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Does make you wonder if Erdogan is thinking so highly of himself after giving the US the proverbial middle finger and buying that piece of shit S400 system. No new Block F16's and no F35's.
I don't think the S-300/S-400 systems are bad, they are still major contributors to near complete denial of aircraft along the front lines. But they also aren't nearly as fearsome as the US military industry made them out to be ~ have to have excuses to scare the government into spending billions/trillions on your favorite super-defense projects!
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I don't think the S-300/S-400 systems are bad, they are still major contributors to near complete denial of aircraft along the front lines. But they also aren't nearly as fearsome as the US military industry made them out to be ~ have to have excuses to scare the government into spending billions/trillions on your favorite super-defense projects!

It's easier to find a sober Russian than a weapons system they haven't overpromised.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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I don't think the S-300/S-400 systems are bad, they are still major contributors to near complete denial of aircraft along the front lines. But they also aren't nearly as fearsome as the US military industry made them out to be ~ have to have excuses to scare the government into spending billions/trillions on your favorite super-defense projects!
I don't think it was like that? I first heard of the systems in 2011 or 2012 or whenever Iran was trying to license out the S300 systems. Russia seems to have had a habit of overstating their abilities but whether or not that's true, the US doesn't stop their r and d when it comes to defense. I'd say we spend a lot of money thinking of problems and how to solve them and not solutions to problems that already exist. I could be wrong.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Hey hey, look who isn't rotting in a hole in Lefortovo. Sergei Surovikin has surfaced in Algeria. Gen Armageddon got to keep his head.

F6EiUDBWcAAjVyX.jpg.webp


Not in uniform though, saw another pic where he's in that khaki suit. I wonder what the story is on that. He's too valuable to not use when there is French influence to help remove from Africa, probably. Kremlin isn't discussing him. The new Prigozhin in Africa maybe?
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,189
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I don't think the S-300/S-400 systems are bad, they are still major contributors to near complete denial of aircraft along the front lines. But they also aren't nearly as fearsome as the US military industry made them out to be ~ have to have excuses to scare the government into spending billions/trillions on your favorite super-defense projects!

That right there reminds me of the movie "The Pentagon Wars".

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,109
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Let's go

Imagine a swarm of these creeping up nice and slow/quiet, staging themselves to attack simultaneously. Put the whole Black Sea fleet down in one go. I have questions about the range however.

ukraine-toloka-tlk-150-maritime-drone.jpg

Toloka_03.jpg


Be nice to see us give them some Mk 60 CAPTORs that might be about to expire. Waste not want not.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,109
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Lol he looks like absolute shit.

Idk man, having your fingernails still attached is a good look in my book for someone who went through what he probably did. Ha.

To be fair, being an overweight northerner sent to the Sahara probably sucks.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Lol he looks like absolute shit.
He should be on a ship in the black sea so when Ukraine tries out their Marichka it can climb up his loose asshole and destroy a fleet sitting like docile ducks.

Can't wait to see that fat fuck in Ukrainian hands or dead.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
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I don't think it was like that? I first heard of the systems in 2011 or 2012 or whenever Iran was trying to license out the S300 systems. Russia seems to have had a habit of overstating their abilities but whether or not that's true, the US doesn't stop their r and d when it comes to defense. I'd say we spend a lot of money thinking of problems and how to solve them and not solutions to problems that already exist. I could be wrong.

S400 with a network of shorter range supplemental AD has certainly been billed as by far the best networked air defence on the planet, at least until S500 recently came online.

Now it’s more likely to be nothing all that special, aside from the massive range it has. Western AD can’t match that particular aspect, but as we’ve discussed ad nauseam at this point, the west would have F22/F35 up there for range. It’s much more economical to launch a missile from altitude at speed than from the ground, so there’s a lot of logic to not trying to compete with long range ground based air defence.
 
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