Running engine while pumping gas

[Squisher]

I always thought it was a federal regulation that required you to turn off the ignition.

 

[sdifox]

Pumping fuel increases the risk of a spill, which increases the risk of a high volume of fumes getting sucked into the intake, which increases the risk of the engine over-speeding and causing a source of ignition (exactly what happened on the Deep Horizon platform).

Never seen a car huh? Your air intake is very far from the fuel port. Unless you take the hose to the engine compartment, pop the hood and spray gas into your engine compartment, then all bets are off.


Engineers think of these things.


Yes even the Korean ones.

 

[jlee]

Never seen a car huh? Your air intake is very far from the fuel port. Unless you take the hose to the engine compartment, pop the hood and spray gas into your engine compartment, then all bets are off.


Engineers think of these things.


Yes even the Korean ones.

I see what you did there. :hmm:

 

[LTC8K6]

It's usually illegal to leave a car running unattended on state property. The gas station or your driveway aren't state property, though, they are private property.

 

[sdifox]

I see what you did there. :hmm:

:sneaky:...:biggrin:

 

[MotF Bane]

Never seen a car huh? Your air intake is very far from the fuel port. Unless you take the hose to the engine compartment, pop the hood and spray gas into your engine compartment, then all bets are off.


Engineers think of these things.


Yes even the Korean ones.

Well played.

 

[yh125d]

For car guys, a lot of you don't seem to be really thinking for yourselves, rather repeating old wives tales



Spill a cup or two (hell, a half gallon) on the ground and the fumes make it up to the alternator which is 10' away with a freaking CAR in the way? By the way, alternators aren't exactly magic spark factories, they're not external spark plugs waiting to ignite any trace amount of gasoline fumes that pass by. People get fuel leaks all the time, UNDERNEATH the hood, inches from the alternator and tons of hot metal, and most of the time it wont ignite. I know because my old car used to do it all the time.


Drip down the side of the car and get ignited by the exhaust? Have you ever felt exhaust? It's not hot by the time it gets anywhere near the tailpipe. Your body panels are likely hotter if its a sunny day.


A bunch of electrical contacts? On your rear fender? Gimme a break.



Only plausible scenario I've ever heard is static electricity, discharged when you grab the pump

 

[ViviTheMage]

I always turn the car off, and I always stand there pumping it...be it 100F or -40F.

 

[exar333]

I typically leave the cruiser running - fill up is quick...usually 4-6 gallons. It's also damn cold in the winter. It hasn't exploded on me yet.

Same here. When it's not subzero, I usually turn my car off. Since I rarely step into the actual gas station, it works for me.

 

[LTC8K6]

For car guys, a lot of you don't seem to be really thinking for yourselves, rather repeating old wives tales



Spill a cup or two (hell, a half gallon) on the ground and the fumes make it up to the alternator which is 10' away with a freaking CAR in the way? By the way, alternators aren't exactly magic spark factories, they're not external spark plugs waiting to ignite any trace amount of gasoline fumes that pass by. People get fuel leaks all the time, UNDERNEATH the hood, inches from the alternator and tons of hot metal, and most of the time it wont ignite. I know because my old car used to do it all the time.


Drip down the side of the car and get ignited by the exhaust? Have you ever felt exhaust? It's not hot by the time it gets anywhere near the tailpipe. Your body panels are likely hotter if its a sunny day.


A bunch of electrical contacts? On your rear fender? Gimme a break.



Only plausible scenario I've ever heard is static electricity, discharged when you grab the pump

We were asked to think of possible scenarios for discussion. We weren't asked what we actually thought.

I actually am not worried about pumping gas with the engine running causing a fire. Not by the alternator or anything else.

If there were a good reason to leave the engine running while filling up, I probably would. I just don't see any good reason to leave the engine running.

With remote start, I can even leave the engine running with no fear of car theft. There's just no good reason to do it.

Maybe if it were 30 below out...but if it were 30 below in central NC, I'd have other pressing problems...

 

[thescreensavers]

F

Drip down the side of the car and get ignited by the exhaust? Have you ever felt exhaust? It's not hot by the time it gets anywhere near the tailpipe.

I dont know what car you have but mine is pretty damn hot at the tail pipe, not saying it will ignite gas omg, but just saying.

 

[yh125d]

I dont know what car you have but mine is pretty damn hot at the tail pipe, not saying it will ignite gas omg, but just saying.

I have a fusion. Its not hot at all, but maybe just cause its a 4cyl. But then again neither is my dads truck, an aftermarket turbo'd 7.3 diesel with no muffler. Nor my old V8 cutlass with glass packs

 

[Zenmervolt]

Gasoline fumes from a spill and the ignition from the brushes in the alternator is the usual scenario on the web.

You'd have to spill gallons for this to be a legitimate risk and even then you'd have at least the same and possibly even more risk from shutting the car off since the starter is generally mounted lower than the alternator (and therefore closer to the source of the fumes) and is just as likely, if not more likely, to spark.

Similarly for Gaynor's hypothetical. You'd have to sit and pump gallons of gas onto the ground under the intake for the engine to suck in enough fumes to make a difference. And even then, modern EFI systems have a lambda loop that would detect the richer mixture and compensate by reducing the injector duty cycle and thereby prevent a "runaway" condition.

No, the real plausible risk is more to do with the potential for people to be idiots and somehow allowing a running car to get put into gear while the driver is not in it.

ZV

 

[LTC8K6]

You'd have to spill gallons for this to be a legitimate risk and even then you'd have at least the same and possibly even more risk from shutting the car off since the starter is generally mounted lower than the alternator (and therefore closer to the source of the fumes) and is just as likely, if not more likely, to spark.

ZV

Yes, but it's still going to be tough to call it a legit risk if you are outdoors. Tough to get the fumes to stay in the right place at the right mixture for ignition. I wouldn't call it a legit worry.

Maybe if you were pumping gas indoors... :biggrin:

 

[Throckmorton]

It increases pollution locally at the gas station. You know how a lot of states ban smoking within 50 ft of a building? Well exhaust fumes and smoke are a lot worse than cigarettes. If everybody ran their engines while pumping gas, the employees inside could be exposed to hazardous levels of carbon monoxide.

 

[Pulsar]

We don't have those anymore. So we stand outside or pay for full service.

And because they don't want excessive VOC, the flow rate of the pumps have been lowered too...

double whammy.

Really? Funny, I travel into Ontario all the time and see them quite often.

What's your sample size?

 

[amdhunter]

I have a cigarette hole in gas cap. I always thought that was pretty dangerous. Who's bright idea was it to stick a cigarette hole where you fuel up? :hmm:

 

[alkemyst]

It's a conspiracy by the illuminati. running cars interfere with their brain waves they subject every gas pumper too.

 

[sdifox]

Really? Funny, I travel into Ontario all the time and see them quite often.

What's your sample size?

I put in 72k km in 2 years...Them dispenser trigger locks were gone in every single station I have used, even in Quebec and the States bordering Ontario . I recall there being a decision made to remove those, same with the flow speed. I am trying to find an article about it but am not having much luck.

I have notices some pumps still have the metal latch in place, but the stop plate it is supposed to push against is gone, accomplishing the same effect.

<==been in Toronto since 1990.

 

[CVSiN]

because the mechanism to keep the gas flowing has been deemed unsafe so pumps don't have those locks anymore.
you could trigger a CEL if you open the gas cap while the car is running.

not here in Texas.
all pumps have the locks.

 

[sdifox]

not here in Texas.
all pumps have the locks.

Our (province of Ontario) environmental laws are probably a bit tougher.

 

[dainthomas]

I used to leave mine running in winter in North Dakota. At 30 below your car gets pretty cold pretty quick. Never blew up and no one at the gas stations cared.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Our (province of Ontario) environmental laws are probably a bit tougher.

Yep, we don't have the locks in BC either.

 

[ShawnD1]

1). Running car means the car's electrical system is up and running. My piece of shit made in china 12V octopus plug shorted out last saturday and it melted the wires before blowing the fuse, but it could be a lot worse if some gasoline were in the car. Many cars have also had problems with electrical fires.

2). Running engine means the catalytic converter stays hot. Those things are hot enough to start grass fires. Maybe they can start gasoline on fire as well.

3). Race (or rice) cars with rich fuel mixtures spit a lot of unburned gasoline out the exhaust and it can start on fire while it's coming out the exhaust. Give a wrench to a guy who doesn't know what he's doing and he might make his car run like that.



I leave mine running. I don't give a fuck.

 

[skyking]

Please extrapolate: imagine a scenario involving the electrical system and how it would start a fire while pumping gas.



Which happens regardless of the status of the ignition.



I turn my ignition off. But my interest is one of principle. I don't believe in doing something "just because," you have to provide a valid reason.

I don't know the causes of the thousands of vehicle fires each year. I do know most of them happen on running vehicles. That is plenty for me to accept and follow the engine off and no smoking signage.