RMA after OCing OK? No, says BFG Tech

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
No, Best Buy won't put that on the shelf. They'll send it back to BFG. Thus raising BFG's costs of maintaining their warranty/guarantee. Gotta love jerkoffs like that

Not necessarily. I guess you haven't shopped at BestBuy lately. In fact, I think that it was the.. AG of Ohio, I think, that launched an investigation into their practises of selling non-new goods as new. I know that personally, more than once I've purchased or helped a friend purchase electronics items in a shrink-wrapped box, only to get home and find out that they were previously used. Specifically in one case, a BBA retail Radeon 7500, minus warranty card. I guess whether they return it to BFG or not depends on what the person told them when returning the product, and what that store's policies are regarding re-shrinks. (Which, really, should be outright illegal anyways.)

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
No, Best Buy won't put that on the shelf. They'll send it back to BFG. Thus raising BFG's costs of maintaining their warranty/guarantee. Gotta love jerkoffs like that

Not necessarily. I guess you haven't shopped at BestBuy lately. In fact, I think that it was the.. AG of Ohio, I think, that launched an investigation into their practises of selling non-new goods as new. I know that personally, more than once I've purchased or helped a friend purchase electronics items in a shrink-wrapped box, only to get home and find out that they were previously used. Specifically in one case, a BBA retail Radeon 7500, minus warranty card. I guess whether they return it to BFG or not depends on what the person told them when returning the product, and what that store's policies are regarding re-shrinks. (Which, really, should be outright illegal anyways.)

No, I guess I haven't shopped @ Best Buy lately; I just work there. OVERALL, the company DOES NOT put used product on the shelf as new. There are a number of reasons for this, but here is a big one: with most recent product (i.e. an item that isn't extremely old, like a SCSI card or something compared to a new video card) they can send them back to the vendor for a credit to the store. Thus eliminating mostly any reason why they would want to risk putting used product on the shelf as new. Now I will not begin to deny that some store associates (not necessarily people within the specific department) will just put a returned product in a bin to be put back on the shelf. In a lot of cases, the people @ Customer Service know exactly DICK about technology. I can't tell you how many times they've asked me (working in Computers) to put back a home theater surge protector or a 50-pack of "audio" CDs (which are sold in the "Media" department). I have been to/worked at several BBY's in eastern NC and have seen NO evidence of this EVER. If you or anyone else sees this at another BBY, PLEASE do something about it. Contact the upper levels of BBY, district or higher. I promise you will reach someone who will do something. I hate that Best Buy has a bad reputation in certain circles, because from my relatively little experience overall I am proud of the stores that I have work at/with. The people that I know on the whole are good, honest people. Anyway, enough of that tangent.
BACK TO @$$HOLE BASHING

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

I simply said if my OC was within DOT range then i would RMA it.

But its not within DOT range. Infact, DOT doesn't exist for video cards according to the MSI website.
Text

You should really research your facts better. DOT certainly does exist for (certain) MSI video cards, and is supported by them, for OCs up to 10%, apparently. Link from MSI here , and an 'H' review here that also mentions it.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Gamingphreek- it voids your warranty if you OC it 1MHz. There is no "I doubt this caused the damage, so the terms of the warranty are meant for other guys". I doubt you're an electrical engineer qualified to test why cards fail?

Also, Rollo, you are quite wrong there. Due to the inherent lack of "perfect" accuracy in clockgen chips and PLL stabilization issues, an OC of 1 Mhz is likely to happen randomly at even stock clocks, and is well within "standard engineering tolerances". If a card failed due to a 1Mhz clockspeed difference, then it was broken by design, period. So that argument carries no weight.

I'm only trying to defend the facts here.

You all seem to want to tear into Gamingphreek, and I admit, I don't agree with RMA'ing a card that died, after intentionally OC'ing it (due to electromigration effects, thermal issues, voltage fluctuations due to higher current requirements at higher frequencies, etc ) - clearly, even while appearing "stable" for a long period of time being OC'ed, it is possible that it could shorten the lifespan of silicon components.

But if the customer purchased a card, that was intentionally advertised by the vendor, as being able to be overclocked by the user, then as long as the OC stayed within the safe range, which one would assume would be rigorously tested by the vendor's engineers, then I see no problem with RMA'ing that card back to that vendor. For those that claim otherwise, would you defend a component vendor that advertises a feature of their product, that you are either not allowed, or not able, to use? (For example, the video processor in the NV40.) Isn't that effectively fraud and/or false advertising? So if someone bought a card advertised to be OC'able, then darn it, it IS reasonable to OC it, and reasonable to RMA it if it breaks, when used within those vendor-specified limits.

Why? Because not all silicon parts are created equal, and the vendor can run additional tests on the parts beyond what the mfg does, or request the mfg to run tests on their behalf (for an additional price, I'm sure), or simply that the vendor believes that the mfg is intentionally under-speccing their parts.

Also, it seems rather hypocritical of everyone to jump on this issue - and yet I've seen so many examples of people promoting vendor-overclocked parts, like various well-known "enthusiast brand" memory vendors, who do nothing more than reprogram the SPD of a major OEM RAM mfg, to purposely overvolt and overclock the memory. Thus reducing the designed-in "engineering tolerance" of the memory, making it more likely to have incompatibilities with the system or fail outright, and likely reducing the overall lifespan of the chips beside.

And yet, why isn't there a huge outcry, against people that RMA their overclocked RAM? They were running it out of mfg's specs, weren't they? Is everyone that RMA's "enthusiast RAM" due to incompatibility issues, a thief?

There's some serious hypocracy going on here, and I'm not sure that I like it.

 

[epileptic]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: lordtyranus

I simply said if my OC was within DOT range then i would RMA it.

But its not within DOT range. Infact, DOT doesn't exist for video cards according to the MSI website.
Text

You should really research your facts better. DOT certainly does exist for (certain) MSI video cards, and is supported by them, for OCs up to 10%, apparently. Link from MSI here , and an 'H' review here that also mentions it.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Gamingphreek- it voids your warranty if you OC it 1MHz. There is no "I doubt this caused the damage, so the terms of the warranty are meant for other guys". I doubt you're an electrical engineer qualified to test why cards fail?

Also, Rollo, you are quite wrong there. Due to the inherent lack of "perfect" accuracy in clockgen chips and PLL stabilization issues, an OC of 1 Mhz is likely to happen randomly at even stock clocks, and is well within "standard engineering tolerances". If a card failed due to a 1Mhz clockspeed difference, then it was broken by design, period. So that argument carries no weight.

I'm only trying to defend the facts here.

You all seem to want to tear into Gamingphreek, and I admit, I don't agree with RMA'ing a card that died, after intentionally OC'ing it (due to electromigration effects, thermal issues, voltage fluctuations due to higher current requirements at higher frequencies, etc ) - clearly, even while appearing "stable" for a long period of time being OC'ed, it is possible that it could shorten the lifespan of silicon components.

But if the customer purchased a card, that was intentionally advertised by the vendor, as being able to be overclocked by the user, then as long as the OC stayed within the safe range, which one would assume would be rigorously tested by the vendor's engineers, then I see no problem with RMA'ing that card back to that vendor. For those that claim otherwise, would you defend a component vendor that advertises a feature of their product, that you are either not allowed, or not able, to use? (For example, the video processor in the NV40.) Isn't that effectively fraud and/or false advertising? So if someone bought a card advertised to be OC'able, then darn it, it IS reasonable to OC it, and reasonable to RMA it if it breaks, when used within those vendor-specified limits.

Why? Because not all silicon parts are created equal, and the vendor can run additional tests on the parts beyond what the mfg does, or request the mfg to run tests on their behalf (for an additional price, I'm sure), or simply that the vendor believes that the mfg is intentionally under-speccing their parts.

Also, it seems rather hypocritical of everyone to jump on this issue - and yet I've seen so many examples of people promoting vendor-overclocked parts, like various well-known "enthusiast brand" memory vendors, who do nothing more than reprogram the SPD of a major OEM RAM mfg, to purposely overvolt and overclock the memory. Thus reducing the designed-in "engineering tolerance" of the memory, making it more likely to have incompatibilities with the system or fail outright, and likely reducing the overall lifespan of the chips beside.

And yet, why isn't there a huge outcry, against people that RMA their overclocked RAM? They were running it out of mfg's specs, weren't they? Is everyone that RMA's "enthusiast RAM" due to incompatibility issues, a thief?

There's some serious hypocracy going on here, and I'm not sure that I like it.

nice post dude.. finally someone makes sense and isnt just being fanatical. 1MHZ OVERCLOCK VOIDS YER WARRANTY SCUMBAG THIEF lol.... all of you being douchebags to gamingphreek over a hypothetical scenario should get a life or go protest something else like save a tree or a fetus or something...

flame away mormons.

 

[SickBeast]

I can't believe you guys had this huge flame war over a hypothetical situation.

The video forum is in a sad state of affairs lately.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Rollo
You're wrong Gamingphreek- most people here are good, honest people who look way down on people who RMA cards after OC, because they know it's stealing and raises the cost of cards to all of us.

When I turned in the guy who burned up his 9800 Pro for trying to RMA it to newegg, the post got over 100 replies of people flaming the guy who advocated RMAing his OCd card. Several members PMd me and thanked me for screwing up his RMA plans.

It says in Coolbits you are voiding your warranty by OCing and you agree to that when you do it. The BFG rep clearly stated he voided his warranty by OCing. I've corresponded with ATI on the subject, you void your warranty by OCing.

So if you're going to advocate stealing from honest people in public, among decent people, you should expect flames.

BTW- I would never do what you say. When my wife and son look at me, I want them to see a man, not some thieving scum.

Maybe you should get to wok in this thread...another loser

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...44&highlight_key=y

 

[rbV5]

Here's an ethics question for ya

If you overclock a vid card or cpu for benchmarking purpose and then run at stock speeds for the rest of your use, would you be comfortable RMAing if it crapped out on you after a couple months.

I guarantee you, if my 6800 has a fubured video processor (as in, manufacturing defect), you can bet its getting RMA'd, and yes I overclocked it when I first got it, just like I do all my cards to bench them. This thread is about an idiot..no doubt about it, but some of these posts.....good grief:roll:

 

[Sonic587]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I HATE [Expletives Deleted] LIKE THAT. its jerkholes like that that cause stores (retail or not) to develop return policies to protect themselves and in the end just hurt consumers with real problems. i want to take that new card and take a nice, new, smelly dump on it. GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

(VENT = OVER)

Edit or ban. This thread has taken a serious turn for the ridiculous, but let's keep it atleast work safe...

 

[Gamingphreek]

Agreed

-Kevin

 

[SickBeast]

Yeah that was ridiculous.

Again, why are we having this discussion? It's hypothetical. Noone has RMA'ed anything, and hopefully Gamingphreek's card will last him well into obsolescence.

 

[nRollo]

The point here is that unless you can tell the vendor or manufacturer you OCd it and now it's faulty, you've stolen the part through fraudulent misrepresentation of your use, period.

There's no hard dilemma here.

If you use Coolbits, there's a disclaimer you agree to before it will let you OC.

Every card has the warranty spelled out on the packaging. If it says "OCing up to 10% included in warranty coverage" fine. (like it ever would)

Cards that are OCd out of the box are warranted to run at the speed advertised on the box.

And no Ronn, we haven't all become scumbag thieves burning up parts and RMAing them. Some of us realize how we'd feel if someone bought a card from us, OCd it, then returned it as defective with the explanation "I didn't OC it much- it should have worked" :roll:

Some of us don't steal or commit fraud because our integrity isn't worth the price of a video card.

Some of us don't want to look in the mirror and see the equivalent of an embezzler or welfare fraud cheater looking back at them.

Some of us had honest, hardworking parents that taught us it's wrong to steal from others.

So rationalize all you like scumbag thieves. If your warranty card prohibits running out of spec, and you can't tell the manufacturer that you did for that RMA, you're no better than a POS alterboy stealing out of the collection plate, or an insurance guy selling fake policies.

 

[Zebo]

Abuse of a policy makes good intensions turn into crap. Someday these cards will be sold "as is" with this generation coming up, I swear.

I would'nt mind such "as is" buying since I never will be able to use a warranty from day one in the first place. Then I could get my cards real cheap and not pay surcharge for you alls mistakes.

My dealer told me I lost the warranty on my f350 after throwing a 6" lift some swampers..air lockers and a banks turbo on my truck. I was "alight give me back the 10% per vehile you add to every car and truck sold for idiots who trash it under warranty." Did'nt work..communism at the consumer level

 

[rbV5]

Some of us don't steal or commit fraud because our integrity isn't worth the price of a video card.

Some of us don't want to look in the mirror and see the equivalent of an embezzler or welfare fraud cheater looking back at them.

Some of us had honest, hardworking parents that taught us it's wrong to steal from others.

So rationalize all you like scumbag thieves. If your warranty card prohibits running out of spec, and you can't tell the manufacturer that you did for that RMA, you're no better than a POS alterboy stealing out of the collection plate, or an insurance guy selling fake policies.

So, just to sure where you stand. Are you saying that if it turns out that nvidia's 6800 graphic chips do indeed have a defect and they can't get the Programmable video processor working correctly, anyone, such as myself, who overclocked their card for benchtesting should not turn the card in for replacement (if thats what it were to come to)?

 

[epileptic]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Some of us don't steal or commit fraud because our integrity isn't worth the price of a video card.

Some of us don't want to look in the mirror and see the equivalent of an embezzler or welfare fraud cheater looking back at them.

Some of us had honest, hardworking parents that taught us it's wrong to steal from others.

So rationalize all you like scumbag thieves. If your warranty card prohibits running out of spec, and you can't tell the manufacturer that you did for that RMA, you're no better than a POS alterboy stealing out of the collection plate, or an insurance guy selling fake policies.

So, just to sure where you stand. Are you saying that if it turns out that nvidia's 6800 graphic chips do indeed have a defect and they can't get the Programmable video processor working correctly, anyone, such as myself, who overclocked their card for benchtesting should not turn the card in for replacement (if thats what it were to come to)?

where does he stand? high on a pedastal it would seem from the way he pushes his superior morals and ethics all over the boards

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: Sonic587

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak
I HATE [Expletives Deleted] LIKE THAT. its jerkholes like that that cause stores (retail or not) to develop return policies to protect themselves and in the end just hurt consumers with real problems. i want to take that new card and take a nice, new, smelly dump on it. GGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

(VENT = OVER)

Edit or ban. This thread has taken a serious turn for the ridiculous, but let's keep it atleast work safe...

Sorry, but I work for Best Buy and it was kinda late when I read what the fastredponycar jerk was doing. Pardon me if I got a little flustered that yet another person is screwing over multitudes of people 'cuz they think they deserve it. Maturity restored

 

[rbV5]

where does he stand? high on a pedastal it would seem from the way he pushes his superior morals and ethics all over the boards

Everybody has a right to their opinion, or to be who they want to be in their online persona for that matter. It's a topic worthy of discussion, and it has been of course. I do think that the personal insults are out of line however, and they are obviously directed at more than the thread topic imbecile.

But again, what about a case where you do have a defective piece of hardware? Do you give up your right to return a defective part simply because you overclocked your card initially? My opinion is that it was defective when I bought it, and I won't feel a bit out of line to demand that I get what I paid my good money for...not one bit.

 

[epileptic]

Originally posted by: rbV5

where does he stand? high on a pedastal it would seem from the way he pushes his superior morals and ethics all over the boards

Everybody has a right to their opinion, or to be who they want to be in their online persona for that matter. It's a topic worthy of discussion, and it has been of course. I do think that the personal insults are out of line however, and they are obviously directed at more than the thread topic imbecile.

But again, what about a case where you do have a defective piece of hardware? Do you give up your right to return a defective part simply because you overclocked your card initially? My opinion is that it was defective when I bought it, and I won't feel a bit out of line to demand that I get what I paid my good money for...not one bit.

Nice post, I totally agree. Im good about accepting my mistakes in the sense that if i fry my board or card im gona live with it as it was noones fault but my own. However a good example is this 9550XT card I just picked up a week or so ago. I OC'd it initially to see if it would really do 9600XT speeds which it wont quite do, but it was only OC'd for a matter of hours and if it dies on me next week running @ stock id RMA it.....besides this card was made to be OC'd from the look of the HSF, to the marketing they use selling it as a lesser card.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Excuse me!!?!? Im no better am I?

I am speaking hypothetically, i did not say if i was OCed up the wazoo and my chip died i would return it. I simply said if my OC was within DOT range then i would RMA it. It is within warranty.

I do not need YOU to tell me that i OCed my chip past 10%. I know what i did.

Just keep talking lord, you just keep digging yourself deeper.

-Kevin

You said if your card died right now you would RMA it. I think maybe you are too retarded to realize that people reading this post wont simply forget what you said so you believe that you can just deny saying things.

Lets put this in logical form shall we:

You argued that:

Your card has a modest overclock
modest overclocks have such a small chance to cause damage to the chip
MSI supports 10% overclock

Your conclusion was:
"If my chip started to die right now i would RMA it and not think twice because it is highly unlikely it is my OC."

Now you say:
I never said I would RMA my card if it were overclocked out the wazoo (I would say that the figures quoted from a previous thread pretty much sum up that you have overclocked to dangerous levels.)

You are a(n):

OUTRIGHT LIAR
POTENTIAL THIEF
HIGHLY ILLOGICAL PERSON
and/or maybe just an
IDIOT.

I vote ban.

 

[sfmedic]

OK after reading the so many comments on this thread I have something to say.

OC'g is getting a thrill. Well jumping of a bridge will give you a thrill. So how about going to the GG bridge and jump off. We all know that most people don't survive this kind of an action. But its for the thrill. So we jump off and get a huge monstrous thill on the way down, then we hit and lose. So when we meet God we just RMA him for our life back.

Sry it doesn't work that way!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I call shenanigans.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
Now you say:
I never said I would RMA my card if it were overclocked out the wazoo (I would say that the figures quoted from a previous thread pretty much sum up that you have overclocked to dangerous levels.)

You are a(n):

OUTRIGHT LIAR
POTENTIAL THIEF
HIGHLY ILLOGICAL PERSON
and/or maybe just an
IDIOT.

I vote ban.

I vote don't throw stones.. if you happen to end up living in a glass house yourself.

He didn't say that he was RMA'ing the card, only that he hypothetically would. While I would tend to concur that would be a fraudulent abuse of the mfg's RMA procedure, if the card in question had been willfully OC'ed part the limits specified as acceptable... he didn't actually do that. Not yet anyway.

So I think that a ban is unwarranted, at least at this point in time.

But I do think that a public chastisement for suggesting such a thing iswarranted, and you've all pretty-much had your shot at it, so why don't we just leave the punishment at time served, for now.

As for RMA'ing a card, even after OC'ing it, if it turned out that it was defective from the factory.. I probably would. Why? Because, at least up until that point, the card is assumed to be working properly. If it was sold with non-functional features, it was sold or advertised fraudulently. That it was so, initially, trumps whatever later issues might occur from OC'ing, IMHO, especially if the card is still in good working order. But if I had fried the card in question due to OC'ing, and then it was discovered that there had been a mfg "birth defect", I probably wouldn't RMA, knowing that I had destroyed it due to my own ignorance.

I OC lots of things myself personally, most not by a large margin (I stick to "safe" numbers), but I've not had anything fail because of it yet. About the only thing that I've ever had to RMA was a HD, and it's not really possible to overclock those, per se.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: epileptic

Originally posted by: rbV5

where does he stand? high on a pedastal it would seem from the way he pushes his superior morals and ethics all over the boards

Everybody has a right to their opinion, or to be who they want to be in their online persona for that matter. It's a topic worthy of discussion, and it has been of course. I do think that the personal insults are out of line however, and they are obviously directed at more than the thread topic imbecile.

But again, what about a case where you do have a defective piece of hardware? Do you give up your right to return a defective part simply because you overclocked your card initially? My opinion is that it was defective when I bought it, and I won't feel a bit out of line to demand that I get what I paid my good money for...not one bit.

Nice post, I totally agree. Im good about accepting my mistakes in the sense that if i fry my board or card im gona live with it as it was noones fault but my own. However a good example is this 9550XT card I just picked up a week or so ago. I OC'd it initially to see if it would really do 9600XT speeds which it wont quite do, but it was only OC'd for a matter of hours and if it dies on me next week running @ stock id RMA it.....besides this card was made to be OC'd from the look of the HSF, to the marketing they use selling it as a lesser card.

WTF kind of reasoning is that?

You knowingly run a card out of spec (I don't care if it's for "a few hours" or five minutes), you've forfeited any right to your warranty coverage. Justify it all you like by saying it looks like it "was made to be OC'd" and saying they market it a certain way, but don't deny that you're doing it. You can't prove that what you did didn't lead to the later failure. Would you still feel justified if you OCed the card for a few days and it failed two weeks later? OCed it for a week and then it failed a month later? OCed it for a month and then it failed a year later? They don't warrant the cards for "well, you know, you can run it a *little* out of spec, for a *while*, but you know, that's really OK <wink wink, nudge nudge>".

IMO, yes, you lose the right to return a "defective" card if you previously ran it out of spec, precisely because you don't know if the defect was inherent or caused/exacerbated by what you did. You want to test your card? Test it at stock for a while to make sure it's working properly. THEN decide if you want to overclock it and forgo your warranty -- and if it stops working a week or month or six months later, it's your own responsibility. Some people's morals are just a little more 'flexible' when their own cash is on the line. :disgust:

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: VirtualLarry

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
Now you say:
I never said I would RMA my card if it were overclocked out the wazoo (I would say that the figures quoted from a previous thread pretty much sum up that you have overclocked to dangerous levels.)

You are a(n):

OUTRIGHT LIAR
POTENTIAL THIEF
HIGHLY ILLOGICAL PERSON
and/or maybe just an
IDIOT.

I vote ban.

I vote don't throw stones.. if you happen to end up living in a glass house yourself.

He didn't say that he was RMA'ing the card, only that he hypothetically would. While I would tend to concur that would be a fraudulent abuse of the mfg's RMA procedure, if the card in question had been willfully OC'ed part the limits specified as acceptable... he didn't actually do that. Not yet anyway.

So I think that a ban is unwarranted, at least at this point in time.

But I do think that a public chastisement for suggesting such a thing iswarranted, and you've all pretty-much had your shot at it, so why don't we just leave the punishment at time served, for now.

As for RMA'ing a card, even after OC'ing it, if it turned out that it was defective from the factory.. I probably would. Why? Because, at least up until that point, the card is assumed to be working properly. If it was sold with non-functional features, it was sold or advertised fraudulently. That it was so, initially, trumps whatever later issues might occur from OC'ing, IMHO, especially if the card is still in good working order. But if I had fried the card in question due to OC'ing, and then it was discovered that there had been a mfg "birth defect", I probably wouldn't RMA, knowing that I had destroyed it due to my own ignorance.

I OC lots of things myself personally, most not by a large margin (I stick to "safe" numbers), but I've not had anything fail because of it yet. About the only thing that I've ever had to RMA was a HD, and it's not really possible to overclock those, per se.

I live in a glass house and if I did the same thing I would want you to stone me. I have a card that I destroyed through modification and I still have it today - ie no RMA.

I do agree that if there is a birth defect as you call it then you should still RMA ie it is arguable that a 6800 without a working video processor should be RMAd (although I think it wont help because I dont believe the die has changed but whatever) even if you have OCd on the basis that you are sure your OC did not damage the video processor.

I am sorry but someone who basically lies in on a board where your every statement is at the hands of others through a simple (although sometimes it seems to be elusive to noobies) search feature. He said his card is only moderately overclocked and that he therefor had justification to send it back if it began to die however in another post he claimed to have reached 450 and wanted to try higher. I cannot have respect for someone who puts forth an arguement that they know to be false. I would have more respect for him had he said, "I hate corporations and therefor I feel justified in wasting their money," while I would not totally agree with this justification at least it would be logically true.

if p then q
p

in this case

if corporations are evil then it is moral to RMA an OCd card
corporations are evil (this may not be true but the hypothetical person may hold it to be so)
-----------------------
I am justified morally when I RMA my card.

However his arguement was

if p then q
p

if I have only a modest overclock of under 10% it is okay to RMA my card
I have only a modest overclock (the poster in this case knew this to be FALSE and therefor put forth a valid but not sound arguement)
-------------------------
unfortunately he somehow STILL managed to reach the conclusion: it is okay to RMA my card.

I put forth this question - HOW did he reach this conclusion accept to hope for acceptance on this board and prayers that no one would remember/find his previous OC post?

 

[epileptic]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

WTF kind of reasoning is that?

You knowingly run a card out of spec (I don't care if it's for "a few hours" or five minutes), you've forfeited any right to your warranty coverage. Justify it all you like by saying it looks like it "was made to be OC'd" and saying they market it a certain way, but don't deny that you're doing it. You can't prove that what you did didn't lead to the later failure. Would you still feel justified if you OCed the card for a few days and it failed two weeks later? OCed it for a week and then it failed a month later? OCed it for a month and then it failed a year later? They don't warrant the cards for "well, you know, you can run it a *little* out of spec, for a *while*, but you know, that's really OK <wink wink, nudge nudge>".

IMO, yes, you lose the right to return a "defective" card if you previously ran it out of spec, precisely because you don't know if the defect was inherent or caused/exacerbated by what you did. You want to test your card? Test it at stock for a while to make sure it's working properly. THEN decide if you want to overclock it and forgo your warranty -- and if it stops working a week or month or six months later, it's your own responsibility. Some people's morals are just a little more 'flexible' when their own cash is on the line. :disgust:

blah blah blah more bashing on theoretical situations that havnt occured. I never denied OC'ing my card so i dont get the 'dont deny it' crap...yes i OCd it for a few hours and if you think that set off a chain reaction which is going to cause my card to meltdown in however long then youre a f'n moron. if this card dies it isnt because i OC'd it for an hour ok? its just not..... and the proof that my OC didnt lead to future failure will come in the future with the fact that the card isnt dead or dying or gona die its fine just like my softmodded 9500 OC'd for over a year running PERFECTLY so STFU already you busy bodies need a life. 30MHZ OVERCLOCK = VIDEOCARD DETH = SCUMBAG THIEVES!!!!1

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
I put forth this question - HOW did he reach this conclusion accept to hope for acceptance on this board and prayers that no one would remember/find his previous OC post?

Alright. For the record, I had no knowledge of some of his prior posts about his OCs, and I didn't bother to search for them either, so it's possible that there is more to this story than my comments might reflect. I wasn't defending him specifically, just pointing out that I think this group "lynch mob" mentality might be going a bit too far, especially for a ban.