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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,643
10,686
136
pretty simple summary here that for whatever reason the major news outlets seemed to have ignored.




I believe this is the video however I don’t have two hours to verify


better video link, skip to the last 8 minute mark

Sorry he doesn’t say to bumb rush the capital and bash a crush a capital police offer in the door while sitting at Pelosi’s desk so Trump did nothing wrong.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,687
1,755
106
pretty simple summary here that for whatever reason the major news outlets seemed to have ignored.




I believe this is the video however I don’t have two hours to verify

Let's not forget that for his entire presidency he fostered hate based on lies. He convinced his supports that is was ok for to force government officials to work with his batshit crazy lawyer and investigate Hunter in Ukraine. He had them so delusional they believed dems somehow committed missive fraud and stole the election. His supporters believed that Pence could somehow magically overturn the results of the election. Trump is 100% to blame for all of that plus what happened at the capitol .

Anyone who ever bought into the con man that is Trump should feel embarrassed for disgracing our country.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
Let's not forget that for his entire presidency he fostered hate based on lies. He convinced his supports that is was ok for to force government officials to work with his batshit crazy lawyer and investigate Hunter in Ukraine. He had them so delusional they believed dems somehow committed missive fraud and stole the election. His supporters believed that Pence could somehow magically overturn the results of the election. Trump is 100% to blame for all of that plus what happened at the capitol .

Anyone who ever bought into the conman that is Trump shoudl feel embarrassed for disgracing our country.
I wish embarrassment or shame was something trump supporters were capable of.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,710
20,070
136
I appreciate the nuance. But consider this: what if most of those people REALLY BELIEVED that their country is being stolen by Marxists, that the vote REALLY WAS STOLEN? Even though their actions, if successful, would effect the exact thing they think they're trying to prevent, is there a chance that a least some of them have the right intention? Again, they're beliefs are completely ludicrous, I'm not saying they weren't bamboozled, I'm not saying they don't NEED to learn about their mistakes, but I believe calling that whole crowd "traitors" is not helpful. Again, in effect they behaved like traitors, but that's not always the same thing.

By the way, thank you for going here with me; this is a very important discussion that I haven't heard much had, and usually only in the screaming fashion we've sadly become so used too.

Eventually, the sooner the better, we need almost everybody to agree that Trump was never a good idea; to push that issue RIGHT NOW, might now be the best idea.
I think that a lot of them do believe the election was stolen, along with all that other nonsense, so to some extent I agree. That being said, these people are not passive victims in this - they suppress information that tells them things they don’t want to hear. They actively defend these lies.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,687
1,755
106
I wish embarrassment or shame was something trump supporters were capable of.
what about a guy like pcgeek11 who I don't believe supports him any longer (might be wrong on that)? Are they honest enough to admit they were suckered by a con man and feel at least a little shame?
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,648
1,802
126
pretty simple summary here that for whatever reason the major news outlets seemed to have ignored.




I believe this is the video however I don’t have two hours to verify


better video link, skip to the last 8 minute mark

There is a HUGE difference between

"We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and Congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd, speaking with the White House as a backdrop. "

And what actually happened.

He talked about fighting for what is right etc... then I skipped down to the 8 minute mark and heard him talking about walking down Penn Ave and giving the weak republicans the strength and support they need.

Quite a stretch to go from fighting for what you think is right and supporting the Republicans who wanted an investigation, into inciting a riot and insurrection.
Meh
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
what about a guy like pcgeek11 who I don't believe supports him any longer (might be wrong on that)? Are they honest enough to admit they were suckered by a con man and feel at least a little shame?
That’s a good question. I thought that he was capable but then he regressed. Maybe the process takes much longer than one imagines it would. I will say this, at least pcgeek had the capacity to voice his opposition to the events that happened on 1/6/21, that’s a lot more than you can say for other trump supporters. I truly do hope pcgeek finds his way out of the lies and brainwashing he’s been subjected to but that is easier said than done. Being wrong isn’t easy, learning that everything you’ve believed in was either a lie or based on a lie is even harder, knowing that who you are as a person is a result of those beliefs and lies, unimaginable. It takes a strong person to break through that last part and even when you do, the journey/deprogramming isn’t over, there will be relapses and tests and it’s even easier to fall back. However, I have hope as I have seen at least one poster emerge from their coma and while they have struggled at times they have made progress. I’m not a perfect person and my interactions with other posters certainly isn’t something to model or even be proud of, I do recognize progress and I do try to support and be there for anyone willing to be a better person and if pcgeek is willing to go down that path, I’ll do my best not to impede that progress.
 

zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,687
1,755
106
There is a HUGE difference between

"We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and Congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd, speaking with the White House as a backdrop. "

And what actually happened.

He talked about fighting for what is right etc... then I skipped down to the 8 minute mark and heard him talking about walking down Penn Ave and giving the weak republicans the strength and support they need.

Quite a stretch to go from fighting for what you think is right and supporting the Republicans who wanted an investigation, into inciting a riot and insurrection.
Meh
But don't pretend Trump didn't poison these people's minds with a sea of lies for 4 years. That Trump's lies about election fraud were not him just trying to make sure the election was fair. You get that right? Trump is 100% responsible for what happened at the capital.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
There is a HUGE difference between

"We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and Congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd, speaking with the White House as a backdrop. "

And what actually happened.

He talked about fighting for what is right etc... then I skipped down to the 8 minute mark and heard him talking about walking down Penn Ave and giving the weak republicans the strength and support they need.

Quite a stretch to go from fighting for what you think is right and supporting the Republicans who wanted an investigation, into inciting a riot and insurrection.
Meh
You can see whatever it is you want to see. Trump himself throughout his entire life has told us that he uses people’s fantasies to get what he wants. You can listen to his speech and ignore context, subtext, and tone, but make no mistake, the people trump was speaking to heard exactly what they wanted to hear and when the president of the United States supports you, you absolutely feel like whatever you are about to do is supported by the president as well.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
But don't pretend Trump didn't poison these people's minds with a sea of lies for 4 years. That Trump's lies about election fraud were not him just trying to make sure the election was fair. You get that right? Trump is 100% responsible for what happened at the capital.
Get it? No he’s chosen, purposefully, to ignore that.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,648
1,802
126
I will state it again just for an end.

I think Trump should have stopped after the votes were re-validated in the questioned States and then gave a concession speech.

Beating the dead horse does no one any good. Now he will pay a severe price one way or another for it due to his own actions...

I'm ready for us all to heal and move along to make the US as good as possible and beat down this Virus.

I wish President Elect Biden all the best and pray that he will bring us back together for the good of the US and all of us.
 
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zzyzxroad

Platinum Member
Jan 29, 2017
2,687
1,755
106
I will state it again just for an end.

I think Trump should have stopped after the votes were re-validated in the questioned States and then gave a concession speech.

Beating the dead horse does no one any good. Now he will pay a severe price one way or another for it due to his own actions...

I'm ready for us all to heal and move along to make the US as good as possible and beat down this Virus.

I wish President Elect Biden all the best and pray that he will bring us back together for the good of the US and all of us.
So will you acknowledge Trump is a con man?
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,304
8,835
136
There is a HUGE difference between

"We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and Congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd, speaking with the White House as a backdrop. "

And what actually happened.

He talked about fighting for what is right etc... then I skipped down to the 8 minute mark and heard him talking about walking down Penn Ave and giving the weak republicans the strength and support they need.

Quite a stretch to go from fighting for what you think is right and supporting the Republicans who wanted an investigation, into inciting a riot and insurrection.
Meh
Normally I’d agree if it was minor stuff. However in this case they did and it was major stuff.
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,304
8,835
136
I will state it again just for an end.

I think Trump should have stopped after the votes were re-validated in the questioned States and then gave a concession speech.

Beating the dead horse does no one any good. Now he will pay a severe price one way or another for it due to his own actions...

I'm ready for us all to heal and move along to make the US as good as possible and beat down this Virus.

I wish President Elect Biden all the best and pray that he will bring us back together for the good of the US and all of us.
Last part is well done
 
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guidryp

Senior member
Apr 3, 2006
963
1,008
136
No, I didn't hear him say anything about taking over the Capital Building, taking hostages or insurrection. Possibly I missed something. Give me a quote.
I think you being disingenuous if you don't see the issue. He isn't dumb enough to come right out and say attack that building and take some hostages, to make them turn the election, but he may as well have. First an analogy to make clear to obtuse what was done:

Two brothers stop as their favorite Uncle shows up:
Hey boys, remember all that target shooting we did, here are some presents (9mm autos).
But now I have bad news, see those gang bangers over there (points to teens playing basketball). They are planning to attack your family. See the tall one in Green, he's particularly nasty. He's a child rapist. He was heard on tape saying he didn't care about the money and jeweler, he was in it for your 9 year old sister. We're not going to let that happen. The police can't do anything because his lawyer cheated and the tape excluded. So you gotta be strong. You can't defend your sister with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong. This is my trusted lawyer, "Judy" - Hey kid, I got it all from my connections in the PD - It's time for trial by combat. So maybe head over there and pay them a pleasant visit, or maybe not so pleasant for some....


Kid in green gets shot. Are you going to argue, that the uncle didn't get them to shoot anyone. Let's not play semantic games about the exact wording involved. He didn't say go shoot that guy in those exact words, he just told them, that if you don't stop him your 9 year old sister gets raped.

That is exactly what Trump did on the 6th.

For the actual day in question and what was said. I read the Jan 6, transcript because it's vomit inducing to watch much of the narcissist con man whipping his mob into a frenzy.

It's an hour+ of brainwashing hammering several points repeatedly.

The election was stolen.
We need Mike Pence and Congress to do the right thing.
The country is doomed unless we fix that.
You can't be weak, you must be strong and fight.
Now head on down there...

Same thing here, he didn't say go attack Mike Pence, but he let the connect the dots that if they don't stop Mike Pence, then Joe Biden steals the election and the country is doomed. And there is really nothing needed to connect those dots, it's dumbed to the level that even a Trump supporter gets the message. No coincidence, some were chanting "Hang Mike Pence!". I'll just pull one quote of the mix of many similar that make clear his stirring the anger to send his mob into battle:

And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

Let me repeat that: If you don't fight like Hell, your not going to have a country anymore.

The actual Verbatim quotes can be found here:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6
All of us here today do not want to see our election victory stolen by emboldened radical left Democrats, which is what they’re doing and stolen by the fake news media. That’s what they’ve done and what they’re doing. We will never give up. We will never concede, it doesn’t happen. You don’t concede when there’s theft involved.
...
We will not let them silence your voices. We’re not going to let it happen. Not going to let it happen.

Crowd:
Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!

....

He looked at Mike Pence, and I hope Mike is going to do the right thing.I hope so. I hope so because if Mike Pence does the right thing, we win the election. All he has to do. This is from the number one or certainly one of the top constitutional lawyers in our country. He has the absolute right to do it. We’re supposed to protect our country, support our country, support our constitution, and protect our constitution. States want to revote. The States got defrauded. They were given false information. They voted on it. Now they want to recertify. They want it back. All Vice-President Pence has to do is send it back to the States to recertify, and we become president, and you are the happiest people.

I just spoke to Mike. I said, “Mike, that doesn’t take courage. What takes courage is to do nothing. That takes courage,” and then we’re stuck with a president who lost the election by a lot, and we have to live with that for four more years. We’re just not going to let that happen.

They wanted to get rid of the Jefferson Memorial, either take it down or just put somebody else in there. I don’t think that’s going to happen. It damn well better not. Although with this administration, if this happens, it could happen. You’ll see some really bad things happen.

...

We want to go back, and we want to get this right because we’re going to have somebody in there that should not be in there and our country will be destroyed, and we’re not going to stand for that.

We’re going walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

Look, I’m not happy with the Supreme Court. They love to rule against me. I picked three people. I fought like hell for them, one in particular I fought. ... And you know what? They couldn’t give a damn. They couldn’t give a damn. Let them rule the right way, but it almost seems that they’re all going out of their way to hurt all of us, and to hurt our country. To hurt our country.

....

You will have a president who lost all of these states, or you will have a president to put it another way, who was voted on by a bunch of stupid people who lost all of these things. You will have an illegitimate president, that’s what you’ll have. And we can’t let that happen

...

Let the weak ones get out. This is a time for strength. They also want to indoctrinate your children in school by teaching them things that aren’t so. They want to indoctrinate your children. It’s all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy and the American people to finally standing up and saying, “No.”

...

“Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

...
 
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eikelbijter

Member
Aug 27, 2009
47
15
81
Wait... are you equating the heavy consumerism push in the 20th century, which affected all people, to some of the Republicans being swayed by Donald Trump?
I'm CERTAINLY not equating them in importance; the storming is worse than 9/11 in my book. I'm equating the mechanisms by which propaganda bamboozles us. The American people have prepared themselves for many years, through television, marketing made into a near religion, to the point where some of my fellow musicians, with more than enough talent to be artists, true artists, fall for the trap of trying to fit in that box, that label.

And I'll say it again, if you have bought 7 iPhones in the last 10 years, but you have no savings, you've been bamboozled. This is not a hypothetical situation; I'm in L.A. and know more people like that than I can comfortably live with. The fact that only 39% of the people in the richest country in the world could come up with $1000 without borrowing in case of an emergency is quite serious. QUITE serious.

And sorry, but it has to be said: if I hear one more woman with plastic tits talk about how phony others are, I'm gonna move to Bali....
 
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eikelbijter

Member
Aug 27, 2009
47
15
81
I think you being disingenuous if you don't see the issue. He isn't dumb enough to come right out and say attack that building and take some hostages, to make them turn the election, but he may as well have. First an analogy to make clear to obtuse what was done:

Two brothers stop as their favorite Uncle shows up:
Hey boys, remember all that target shooting we did, here are some presents (9mm autos).
But now I have bad news, see those gang bangers over there (points to teens playing basketball). They are planning to attack your family. See the tall one in Green, he's particularly nasty. He's a child rapist. He was heard on tape saying he didn't care about the money and jeweler, he was in it for your 9 year old sister. We're not going to let that happen. The police can't do anything because his lawyer cheated and the tape excluded. So you gotta be strong. You can't defend your sister with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong. This is my trusted lawyer, "Judy" - Hey kid, I got it all from my connections in the PD - It's time for trial by combat. So maybe head over there and pay them a pleasant visit, or maybe not so pleasant for some....


Kid in green gets shot. Are you going to argue, that the uncle didn't get them to shoot anyone. Let's not play semantic games about the exact wording involved. He didn't say go shoot that guy in those exact words, he just told them, that if you don't stop him your 9 year old sister gets raped.

That is exactly what Trump did on the 6th.

For the actual day in question and what was said. I read the Jan 6, transcript because it's vomit inducing to watch much of the narcissist con man whipping his mob into a frenzy.

It's an hour+ of brainwashing hammering several points repeatedly.

The election was stolen.
We need Mike Pence and Congress to do the right thing.
The country is doomed unless we fix that.
You can't be weak, you must be strong and fight.
Now head on down there...

Same thing here, he didn't say go attack Mike Pence, but he let the connect the dots that if they don't stop Mike Pence, then Joe Biden steals the election and the country is doomed. And there is really nothing needed to connect those dots, it's dumbed to the level that even a Trump supporter gets the message. No coincidence, some were chanting "Hang Mike Pence!". I'll just pull one quote of the mix of many similar that make clear his stirring the anger to send his mob into battle:

And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

Let me repeat that: If you don't fight like Hell, your not going to have a country anymore.

The actual Verbatim quotes can be found here:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6
This :-(
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,488
10,248
146
I will state it again just for an end.

I think Trump should have stopped after the votes were re-validated in the questioned States and then gave a concession speech.

Beating the dead horse does no one any good. Now he will pay a severe price one way or another for it due to his own actions...

I'm ready for us all to heal and move along to make the US as good as possible and beat down this Virus.

I wish President Elect Biden all the best and pray that he will bring us back together for the good of the US and all of us.
Tired of winning!
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
6,922
722
126
I think you being disingenuous if you don't see the issue. He isn't dumb enough to come right out and say attack that building and take some hostages, to make them turn the election, but he may as well have. First an analogy to make clear to obtuse what was done:

Two brothers stop as their favorite Uncle shows up:
Hey boys, remember all that target shooting we did, here are some presents (9mm autos).
But now I have bad news, see those gang bangers over there (points to teens playing basketball). They are planning to attack your family. See the tall one in Green, he's particularly nasty. He's a child rapist. He was heard on tape saying he didn't care about the money and jeweler, he was in it for your 9 year old sister. We're not going to let that happen. The police can't do anything because his lawyer cheated and the tape excluded. So you gotta be strong. You can't defend your sister with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong. This is my trusted lawyer, "Judy" - Hey kid, I got it all from my connections in the PD - It's time for trial by combat. So maybe head over there and pay them a pleasant visit, or maybe not so pleasant for some....


Kid in green gets shot. Are you going to argue, that the uncle didn't get them to shoot anyone. Let's not play semantic games about the exact wording involved. He didn't say go shoot that guy in those exact words, he just told them, that if you don't stop him your 9 year old sister gets raped.

That is exactly what Trump did on the 6th.

For the actual day in question and what was said. I read the Jan 6, transcript because it's vomit inducing to watch much of the narcissist con man whipping his mob into a frenzy.

It's an hour+ of brainwashing hammering several points repeatedly.

The election was stolen.
We need Mike Pence and Congress to do the right thing.
The country is doomed unless we fix that.
You can't be weak, you must be strong and fight.
Now head on down there...

Same thing here, he didn't say go attack Mike Pence, but he let the connect the dots that if they don't stop Mike Pence, then Joe Biden steals the election and the country is doomed. And there is really nothing needed to connect those dots, it's dumbed to the level that even a Trump supporter gets the message. No coincidence, some were chanting "Hang Mike Pence!". I'll just pull one quote of the mix of many similar that make clear his stirring the anger to send his mob into battle:

And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.

Let me repeat that: If you don't fight like Hell, your not going to have a country anymore.

The actual Verbatim quotes can be found here:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6



This reminds me of the Michael Cohen testimony in the first impeachment. He explained that when you work for trump you had to interpret what he says. He didn’t tell you what to do or give you instructions. He told you what he wanted in a round about way.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,207
247
106
I appreciate the nuance. But consider this: what if most of those people REALLY BELIEVED that their country is being stolen by Marxists, that the vote REALLY WAS STOLEN? Even though their actions, if successful, would effect the exact thing they think they're trying to prevent, is there a chance that a least some of them have the right intention? Again, they're beliefs are completely ludicrous, I'm not saying they weren't bamboozled, I'm not saying they don't NEED to learn about their mistakes, but I believe calling that whole crowd "traitors" is not helpful. Again, in effect they behaved like traitors, but that's not always the same thing.
Really? People with supposedly good intentions (at least in their own minds) shouldn't be held accountable for their actions? How well does that work for you if we change the group from alt-right Qanon Trumpsters to the 9/11 jihadists?

It is our actions that count; not our intentions. Everyone who entered into the Capitol Building to interrupt a joint session of Congress is guilty of a treasonous act and should be held accountable for what they did. I expect that punishments will be based on what each person actually did, and I expect that many will be let off lightly. Nonetheless, their actions have certainly qualified them for the label of traitors.
 

MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
8,342
3,642
136
Anybody who still feels support for Donald is a fascist. Learn from history. These are your authoritarian anti democratic fascists, Nazis, stalinists, maoists. They are bad hombres
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
Anybody who still feels support for Donald is a fascist. Learn from history. These are your authoritarian anti democratic fascists, Nazis, stalinists, maoists. They are bad hombres
These people are part of the reason the 2nd amendment exists, to stop these type of things. The 2nd wasn’t for stopping an authoritarian government, it was to protect the states and the country from foreign and domestic threats.
 

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