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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
15,898
4,019
136
It must be terrifying to believe that ANTIFA did it.

Because if ANTIFA did this, they have freaking super powers.

Because they disappeared after without a single one being caught: So Ninjas?
Because they mind controlled Trump supporters into doing despicable things. So Jedi?
Because they didn't show up on any camera footage. So Vampires?

I know couldn't sleep at night if I thought unstoppable ANTIFA Vampire Jedi Ninjas were out there working against me.
And when the other participants around her are locked up and in prison, I'm sure they won't believe those court decisions either. See, you either have to participate in our government and not attempt to overthrow it when you don't win elections, or spend your time in the pokey for treason!
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
8,852
366
126
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
 

eikelbijter

Member
Aug 27, 2009
47
15
81
I think the events of the last 4 years and especially of the last week proves there are no checks and balances in our government. As long as the party in power hold the key's to failsafe's those don't exist either.
That is a BIZARRE thing to say in my opinion. There is an endless amount of checks and balances, to the point where putting in more might start negatively affecting the efficient operation of the whole thing.

Unfortunately, it's the American PEOPLE who have lost their grasp on reality, THEIR internal checks and balances have become dangerously incapacitated. NO system can stand up to mass insanity, WHATEVER the reason it came to be. We can endlessly discuss HOW we got here, who's fault it is etc. etc. How WE got here.

Now, I've been against Trump from the very beginning. I've called him dangerous from the VERY BEGINNING, when even my most liberal friends here would call me NUTS, because you know what? They have been bamboozled in their own ways as much as Team Orange. If you bought 7 iPhones in the last 10 years, but you don't buy health insurance, you should be very careful in calling THE OTHERS brainwashed.

To finish this up: of course the people who shit in the Capitol should be punished, this can not just happen without consequence. To be clear, I DO believe Trump has direct blame for the storming. He's a selfish jerk (trying to be nice here), AND he's not that bright; being evil personified is not always a conscious plan. But right now, RIGHT NOW, when there are thousands of people across the country planning to "storm" capitol buildings, it's NOT the time for MORE name-calling. We need to tread VERY carefully and diffuse this situation.

We need to STOP SAYING that Capitol Police just "let them in". Who is "them"? Making a statement like that, without 10 minutes of clarification, is as bad as blaming BLM the movement for what the looters and rioters did. I watched how officers FOUGHT LIKE HELL to protect that building, how they did EVERYTHING they could for more than an hour to hold back THOUSANDS of pushing people. What do you suggest when they mob breached? Have 100 cops arrest 2000 people? Start shooting all of them? This is not a fucking video game where you just start over if your brazen decision turns out to be suicide......
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
Sorry equivalency not found.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
That is a BIZARRE thing to say in my opinion. There is an endless amount of checks and balances, to the point where putting in more might start negatively affecting the efficient operation of the whole thing.

Unfortunately, it's the American PEOPLE who have lost their grasp on reality, THEIR internal checks and balances have become dangerously incapacitated. NO system can stand up to mass insanity, WHATEVER the reason it came to be. We can endlessly discuss HOW we got here, who's fault it is etc. etc. How WE got here.

Now, I've been against Trump from the very beginning. I've called him dangerous from the VERY BEGINNING, when even my most liberal friends here would call me NUTS, because you know what? They have been bamboozled in their own ways as much as Team Orange. If you bought 7 iPhones in the last 10 years, but you don't buy health insurance, you should be very careful in calling THE OTHERS brainwashed.

To finish this up: of course the people who shit in the Capitol should be punished, this can not just happen without consequence. To be clear, I DO believe Trump has direct blame for the storming. He's a selfish jerk (trying to be nice here), AND he's not that bright; being evil personified is not always a conscious plan. But right now, RIGHT NOW, when there are thousands of people across the country planning to "storm" capitol buildings, it's NOT the time for MORE name-calling. We need to tread VERY carefully and diffuse this situation.

We need to STOP SAYING that Capitol Police just "let them in". Who is "them"? Making a statement like that, without 10 minutes of clarification, is as bad as blaming BLM the movement for what the looters and rioters did. I watched how officers FOUGHT LIKE HELL to protect that building, how they did EVERYTHING they could for more than an hour to hold back THOUSANDS of pushing people. What do you suggest when they mob breached? Have 100 cops arrest 2000 people? Start shooting all of them? This is not a fucking video game where you just start over if your brazen decision turns out to be suicide......
I agree with everything you said except the bolded. Now is the time to out these traitors and it makes things even easier to do when all eyes are trained and opened on such seditious acts. We’ve turned our cheeks for too long and have let this cancer invade this country with little to no recourse, I want it exposed and removed.
 

Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
8,852
366
126
Sorry equivalency not found.
I never said they were equivalent. I said I felt the same way about both because the part that I did mention IS equivalent. Focusing on the actions of a few and projecting those actions onto a much larger group is dishonest, but something happens FAR too often, particularly when discussing/arguing about politics and political actions.

I don't blame the vast majority of BLM protestors for the actions of the rioters, and I also don't blame the vast majority of the DC protestors for the actions of the rioters.

If you claim that all BLM protestors were rioters/looters, as some people have, then you are wrong. If you claim that all DC protestors were rioters, as some people have, then you are also wrong. If you do what some people do and pick only one of those two situations and blame one entire group but not the other, then you are wrong AND blindly partisan or a hypocrite.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,710
20,070
136
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
While I don’t know what you would consider relative, the number of people engaged in criminal activity here seems pretty large as a percentage of the protest.

In addition, as more evidence emerges the level of violence planned here seems to have been vastly greater. There was large amounts of chatter about the intent to execute lawmakers and it appears the rioters came prepared at a minimum to kidnap and/or take people hostage.

I suspect as more information comes out and as investigations continue we are going to be horrified at the level of violence planned here.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
I never said they were equivalent. I said I felt the same way about both because the part that I did mention IS equivalent. Focusing on the actions of a few and projecting those actions onto a much larger group is dishonest, but something happens FAR too often, particularly when discussing/arguing about politics and political actions.

I don't blame the vast majority of BLM protestors for the actions of the rioters, and I also don't blame the vast majority of the DC protestors for the actions of the rioters.

If you claim that all BLM protestors were rioters/looters, as some people have, then you are wrong. If you claim that all DC protestors were rioters, as some people have, then you are also wrong. If you do what some people do and pick only one of those two situations and blame one entire group but not the other, then you are wrong AND blindly partisan or a hypocrite.
I’ve done no such thing. I blame those that condone such actions and I blame those that have been vocal for years in support of trump and his rhetoric and who choose to remain silent. It’s why I want people exposed as opposed to having all trump supporters rounded up, I understand the difference.
 
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Fardringle

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2000
8,852
366
126
I’ve done no such thing. I blame those that condone such actions and I blame those that have been vocal for years in support of trump and his rhetoric and who choose to remain silent. It’s why I want people exposed as opposed to having all trump supporters rounded up, I understand the difference.
Consider the "you" in my post be a general statement for people who make those improper generalizations. Not directed at you specifically.
 

eikelbijter

Member
Aug 27, 2009
47
15
81
I agree with everything you said except the bolded. Now is the time to out these traitors and it makes things even easier to do when all eyes are trained and opened on such seditious acts. We’ve turned our cheeks for too long and have let this cancer invade this country with little to no recourse, I want it exposed and removed.
I did not say we shouldn't OUT them, we should; we should calmly and collectedly follow the law. I said this is not the time for NAME CALLING, especially against the collective. We can't say Trump supporters are categorically racist, EVEN when their actions imply it simply by "running" with the actual Nazis. In the end I believe the ones that aren't racist can learn that.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,330
2,617
136
While I don’t know what you would consider relative, the number of people engaged in criminal activity here seems pretty large as a percentage of the protest.

In addition, as more evidence emerges the level of violence planned here seems to have been vastly greater. There was large amounts of chatter about the intent to execute lawmakers and it appears the rioters came prepared at a minimum to kidnap and/or take people hostage.

I suspect as more information comes out and as investigations continue we are going to be horrified at the level of violence planned here.
BLM marches occured across the country throughout the summer. 98% were uneventful.
Issues popped up in areas where the legitimate issue of Police gone wild proved BLM's point with police going apeshit on people
More issues popped up in specific areas where right wing groups crashed the party.
Then groups that typical show up to tell right wing groups to fuck off joined the party.
BLM went home
Crazy whites wrecked the place.
In the wee hours in some locations crimes of opportunity occured because we can't have anything nice.

We have members on the forum that participated in BLM protests.
We have many people who live in areas where protests occured.
I personally can vouch for protestors and that areas that "Right wing media" claimed to be pure anarchy were indeed not pure anarchy and people were busy having nachos or trying to find a place to listen to music.
I can confirm that counter protestors, aka crazy trumptart white people were straight savage violent mindless fuckshits when BLM marhers were simply trying to complete there route.

Meanwhile
Washington DC was a smidge different some might say.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,710
20,070
136
I did not say we shouldn't OUT them, we should; we should calmly and collectedly follow the law. I said this is not the time for NAME CALLING, especially against the collective. We can't say Trump supporters are categorically racist, EVEN when their actions imply it simply by "running" with the actual Nazis. In the end I believe the ones that aren't racist can learn that.
While I agree all Trump supporters aren’t racist the fact is that Trump has been an unabashed, lifelong racist and he has been very public with his racism.

So even if an individual isn’t racist choosing to support someone who is doesn’t reflect well on them.
 

guidryp

Senior member
Apr 3, 2006
960
1,005
136
I never said they were equivalent. I said I felt the same way about both because the part that I did mention IS equivalent. Focusing on the actions of a few and projecting those actions onto a much larger group is dishonest, but something happens FAR too often, particularly when discussing/arguing about politics and political actions.

I don't blame the vast majority of BLM protestors for the actions of the rioters, and I also don't blame the vast majority of the DC protestors for the actions of the rioters.

If you claim that all BLM protestors were rioters/looters, as some people have, then you are wrong. If you claim that all DC protestors were rioters, as some people have, then you are also wrong. If you do what some people do and pick only one of those two situations and blame one entire group but not the other, then you are wrong AND blindly partisan or a hypocrite.
Classic bothsideism, to deflect from the issue under discussion. You are trying to turn the discussion about Attacking democracy into another BLM debate.

How about your thoughts without referencing BLM?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
I did not say we shouldn't OUT them, we should; we should calmly and collectedly follow the law. I said this is not the time for NAME CALLING, especially against the collective. We can't say Trump supporters are categorically racist, EVEN when their actions imply it simply by "running" with the actual Nazis. In the end I believe the ones that aren't racist can learn that.
I don’t think calling traitors, traitors is name calling but rather fact. The capital was overrun while congress was in session to certify a democratically held election and people died as a result. You can be racist and still not be a traitor, hell, you can hate our government and still not be a traitor.

However this thread isn’t about outing people, this thread is an opportunity for those who have publicly associated and supported trump and his rhetoric on this forum to publicly condemn what occurred on 1/6/21 and to condemn trump and his part in it. Their (we all know who they are) failure to condemn this and to remain silent will be their outing.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,652
3,203
126
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
Sorry equivalency not found.
See that video of the cop holding the line in a tunnel, getting crushed and injured?

Enough men to fill up that tunnel were going HEAVE HO over and over again. Violence to break through and injure people. That's not a few people. That right there was over a hundred, and that's just one video of one spot in one moment of that day. Not exactly the same as a few extremists shooting guns and setting fires over the summer.
 
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eikelbijter

Member
Aug 27, 2009
47
15
81
I don’t think calling traitors, traitors is name calling but rather fact. The capital was overrun while congress was in session to certify a democratically held election and people died as a result. You can be racist and still not be a traitor, hell, you can hate our government and still not be a traitor.

However this thread isn’t about outing people, this thread is an opportunity for those who have publicly associated and supported trump and his rhetoric on this forum to publicly condemn what occurred on 1/6/21 and to condemn trump and his part in it. Their (we all know who they are) failure to condemn this and to remain silent will be their outing.
I appreciate the nuance. But consider this: what if most of those people REALLY BELIEVED that their country is being stolen by Marxists, that the vote REALLY WAS STOLEN? Even though their actions, if successful, would effect the exact thing they think they're trying to prevent, is there a chance that a least some of them have the right intention? Again, they're beliefs are completely ludicrous, I'm not saying they weren't bamboozled, I'm not saying they don't NEED to learn about their mistakes, but I believe calling that whole crowd "traitors" is not helpful. Again, in effect they behaved like traitors, but that's not always the same thing.

By the way, thank you for going here with me; this is a very important discussion that I haven't heard much had, and usually only in the screaming fashion we've sadly become so used too.

Eventually, the sooner the better, we need almost everybody to agree that Trump was never a good idea; to push that issue RIGHT NOW, might now be the best idea.
 

guidryp

Senior member
Apr 3, 2006
960
1,005
136
I appreciate the nuance. But consider this: what if most of those people REALLY BELIEVED that their country is being stolen by Marxists, that the vote REALLY WAS STOLEN? Even though their actions, if successful, would effect the exact thing they think they're trying to prevent, is there a chance that a least some of them have the right intention? Again, they're beliefs are completely ludicrous, I'm not saying they weren't bamboozled, I'm not saying they don't NEED to learn about their mistakes, but I believe calling that whole crowd "traitors" is not helpful. Again, in effect they behaved like traitors, but that's not always the same thing.

By the way, thank you for going here with me; this is a very important discussion that I haven't heard much had, and usually only in the screaming fashion we've sadly become so used too.

Eventually, the sooner the better, we need almost everybody to agree that Trump was never a good idea; to push that issue RIGHT NOW, might now be the best idea.
A lot of bad guys have some kind of rationalization, that lets them think they're good guys.

Disabusing them of that notion is not something to be avoided.

So Fuck no, they weren't patriots whatever they think, they were the actual traitors, duped into it or not.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,431
8,408
136
I appreciate the nuance. But consider this: what if most of those people REALLY BELIEVED that their country is being stolen by Marxists, that the vote REALLY WAS STOLEN? Even though their actions, if successful, would effect the exact thing they think they're trying to prevent, is there a chance that a least some of them have the right intention? Again, they're beliefs are completely ludicrous, I'm not saying they weren't bamboozled, I'm not saying they don't NEED to learn about their mistakes, but I believe calling that whole crowd "traitors" is not helpful. Again, in effect they behaved like traitors, but that's not always the same thing.

By the way, thank you for going here with me; this is a very important discussion that I haven't heard much had, and usually only in the screaming fashion we've sadly become so used too.

Eventually, the sooner the better, we need almost everybody to agree that Trump was never a good idea; to push that issue RIGHT NOW, might now be the best idea.
I don't need a "what it they believed it", hypothetical, I know they believe it, I know they think they are right. Its exactly that certainty they have that by treating them with kid gloves will accomplish nothing. If you aren't a traitor you'll have no problem distancing yourself from seditious acts. However what we've seen so far is that they don't think what they support is wrong, they don't see a problem and because of that they need to be held accountable and maybe then things will get real.

To be clear, those that come forward and admit their error and acknowledge that the actions that occurred on 1/6 and condemn them in no uncertain terms, should be welcomed and treated with care, they are redeemable, they have the capacity to change and learn from their mistakes and I will encourage that and I will ask others to do the same.

But for those who believe in alternative realities, sorry, there is no "just be kinder and they'll eventually come around", it simply doesn't happen.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
29,145
2,865
126
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
Last I checked a pretty sizable group of people crossed the barricades and stepped on the grounds of the Capitol. They didn't all smash the doors down, bludgeon a police officer to death or steal things from the Capitol, but they all broke the law when they went on the other side of the barricades.
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,648
1,802
126
Couple of questions.

Are you surprised this happened?
Do you think Trump incited their insurrection?

Yes, I was surprised at how many stupid people did try.
I wasn't surprised that there are stupid extremist people willing to do stupid extremist things.

No, I didn't hear him say anything about taking over the Capital Building, taking hostages or insurrection. Possibly I missed something. Give me a quote.

As far as the congress members asking for the electoral votes to be reviewed and investigated that is legal and proper and has nothing to do with it.

Edit:
I do need to add that I think Trump should have just conceded
after all the votes were verified and accepted. He dragged the process through the mud for no good end.
 
Last edited:
Feb 4, 2009
28,304
8,833
136
Yes, I was surprised at how many stupid people did try.
I wasn't surprised that there are stupid extremist people willing to do stupid extremist things.

No, I didn't hear him say anything about taking over the Capital Building, taking hostages or insurrection. Possibly I missed something. Give me a quote.

As far as the congress members asking for the electoral votes to be reviewed and investigated that is legal and proper and has nothing to do with it.
pretty simple summary here that for whatever reason the major news outlets seemed to have ignored.

"Statistically impossible to have lost the 2020 Election," Trump, a Republican, tweeted on Dec. 20. "Big protest in DC on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"
They turned out in the thousands and heard the president urge them to march on the Capitol building to express their anger at the voting process and to pressure their elected officials to reject the results.
"We're going to walk down to the Capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and Congressmen and women," Trump told the crowd, speaking with the White House as a backdrop.

I believe this is the video however I don’t have two hours to verify


better video link, skip to the last 8 minute mark

 
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MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,921
3,011
136
I find amazing those who still can't admit they were wrong. For 4 years they trashed people for seeing Trump for who he was. TDS blah blah blah. And when he does what those people thought he was capable of.. crickets.
No different than the power of a cult that led 900 people to drink poison. They really believe some completely unbelievable shit.
 

MtnMan

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2004
4,921
3,011
136
I feel pretty much the same way that I did about the BLM/Antifa protests and riots earlier in the year.

A relatively small number of idiots did idiotic things and put the focus (and outrage) on their stupid actions instead of letting the focus stay on what the thousands of other people were peacefully and lawfully trying to do.
Granted protests for just about anything are going to attract some bad actors.

However to compare what happened on 1/6/21 to BLM protests only exposes your racist views, or demonstrates you lack of understanding of racism.

In case you are confused, 1/6/21 is a blatent attempt to overturn our laws and the Constitution.
BLM is about the demand that everyone is treated equally under the laws and the Constitution.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,662
493
126
I had the chance to speak with some of my right-leaning friends today, and it was certainly interesting. Now, I don't think any of them are fans of Donald Trump, but even without that, there does seem to be this hesitance about the Democrats fueled by what can best be described as FUD. There were a few issues in their remarks that I noticed, which mostly came down to two things...

  1. Improper leaps in logic. For example, at one point, I was told that "they" hate the United States. I asked who they were talking about, and I was told people like AOC. After further inquisition, it turned out that they took some remark that shone negatively upon the United States (e.g. "the country has racist roots") and took that to the extreme.
  2. Bogeyman-ism. This was probably the worst one, and it's not that uncommon. Just name any Fox News talking point off the top of your head, and I probably heard it today: ANTIFA, BLM, Socialism, etc.

Now, I've been against Trump from the very beginning. I've called him dangerous from the VERY BEGINNING, when even my most liberal friends here would call me NUTS, because you know what? They have been bamboozled in their own ways as much as Team Orange. If you bought 7 iPhones in the last 10 years, but you don't buy health insurance, you should be very careful in calling THE OTHERS brainwashed.
Wait... are you equating the heavy consumerism push in the 20th century, which affected all people, to some of the Republicans being swayed by Donald Trump?
 
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