Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"

[William Gaatjes]

I think the explanation for the situation in Moon wasn't all that important. I can think of many valid / believable reasons for it.

I can't think of a valid reason to stay in the path of a mountain-sized horseshoe that is rolling toward you when you can simply step aside.

That other stuff about watching Alien, I have to disagree with you. Alien is about as close as you can get to a perfect film. The characters are believable and behave in believable ways. The creature is frightening because it's in a completely different form each time you see it...so the characters don't even know what they're looking for. (egg, facehugger, chest-burster, young, bigger with things on its back, ...)

The fact that the creature grows without eating was my only problem with the first movie. However, that was consistent between Alien and Prometheus. Aliens also doesn't show the creatures feeding, which seems to reinforce that they only use humans to reproduce. They somehow gain body mass another way...and I'm OK with that as long as they don't try to come up with an explanation that's total bullshit.

This i always have been wondering about. And i always had this possible explanation :
I noticed from the alien movies that solid materials are not an obstacle for the walking version with the things on the back. With the acid it can dissolve anything. It is also not uncommon that these aliens can produce material to create a "prison" for the victims that will be used for the next reproduction cycle. Since these aliens are almost perfect in every way, it makes sense that it does not eat as mammals do, but that it eats in a way sort of similar found in the bacterial world. Breakdown the environment into atomic building blocks and use these to "feed" : Use by means of various enzymes :hmm: to increase in mass. Which is cell division for bacteria. Of course, for the aliens, almost anything can be used as a build material.

Sigourney Weaver sure was hot in those days :

 

[Ichinisan]

Guys, I found everything that explains the Engineers involvement with the humans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUU9R8WiVyQ

:thumbsup:

 

[Codewiz]

Stepping aside from the fact it’s a movie..

It seemed to me, that they were showing that the engineers were breaking down and scrambling their DNA on planets to see what came out of it. One could argue that the Engineer dropping their DNA with whatever accelerant he drank (again, that seemed to me, they never explained exactly what he was drinking.. or if he was really a he) kick started mammal life on earth. One it got past the goo stage the external stuff you talk about mixed with it and bam here we are. I took the scene to show that the Engineers were experimenting with DNA than showing our exact origin as humans. As it was one of many questions the movie brought up and didn’t answer, it was another reason why a ton of people I know were so pissed about it.

Also as we still don't really know much of anything about the Engineers, there's nothing outside a resemblance that says anything about how close humans are to them. We could be vastly different, again another question unanswered.

On the DNA scanner, it showed the engineers DNA as being "human". Not "human-like". Not similar to human. Even our current sequencing is specific enough to tell the different between homo sapiens, homo erectus, etc.....

If the DNA was different than human, it would not have scanned as human. Now their genetics could be just different enough that they are larger and stronger while remaining human. No different than a Great Dane and a poodle both are dogs.

Yes, it is a movie but to me this makes the least sense. The ONLY argument I can think of is that the black goo somehow programs the RNA and DNA to evolve in very specific ways that ultimately results in humans coming into existence.

 

[Ichinisan]

On the DNA scanner, it showed the engineers DNA as being "human". Not "human-like". Not similar to human. Even our current sequencing is specific enough to tell the different between homo sapiens, homo erectus, etc.....

If the DNA was different than human, it would not have scanned as human. Now their genetics could be just different enough that they are larger and stronger while remaining human. No different than a Great Dane and a poodle both are dogs.

Yes, it is a movie but to me this makes the least sense. The ONLY argument I can think of is that the black goo somehow programs the RNA and DNA to evolve in very specific ways that ultimately results in humans coming into existence.

I don't want to make excuses for this movie, but that didn't bother me much.

See my post on this:

As I understand it, the bulk of our DNA is non-relevant stuff. Some of it was injected by viruses and much of it isn't even human DNA. I assume that "100%" would refer only to specific genetic markers that exist only in humans.

 

[dwell]

Big fan of Alien but reading this thread glad I skipped it. It sounds like one of those movies that not only suck but they end up ruining the movie they're a prequel to but over-explaining everything. The cool thing about Alien with the space jockey etc. is you're never explained what all the weird stuff is which adds to the mystery and suspense.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Big fan of Alien but reading this thread glad I skipped it. It sounds like one of those movies that not only suck but they end up ruining the movie they're a prequel to but over-explaining everything. The cool thing about Alien with the space jockey etc. is you're never explained what all the weird stuff is which adds to the mystery and suspense.

Sucking is subjective. I would recommend you see it.

As for overexplaining, the problem is they didn't explain enough if anything. Just made people have more questions because while everything was similar it was different from Alien in enough ways to cause more confusion than actually just answering them.

 

[Skel]

What's with the crazy size and font tags on your post? I hate serifs.

No clue what happened there. I was on my work computer.. odd

 

[Skel]

I don't want to make excuses for this movie, but that didn't bother me much.

See my post on this:

I admit I had forgotten about that part, but I agree with this. The machine saw it as 100% human because it had the targets it was scanning for. It could have had a ton of stuff that the machine just wasn't set up for.

 

[BladeVenom]

On another site someone posted, that David is talking to the Engineer in Latin, with a German accent. He said, "Remember. He is in the dying stages of aging. To whatever place you will, we respectfully believe you can stop it."

 

[ImpulsE69]

On another site someone posted, that David is talking to the Engineer in Latin, with a German accent. He said, "Remember. He is in the dying stages of aging. To whatever place you will, we respectfully believe you can stop it."

Interesting..of course, since this civilization probably didn't know "latin" as he said it, it's possible it came across as:

"Remember us? You're going to die and you can't stop it."

 

[dr150]

Sucking is subjective. I would recommend you see it.

As for overexplaining, the problem is they didn't explain enough if anything. Just made people have more questions because while everything was similar it was different from Alien in enough ways to cause more confusion than actually just answering them.

"The Lindelof Way" which he used on Lost....

ANSWER the question with another question.

Build that fucking Ponzi mountain of questions until syndication, with a promise to viewers to answer most all questions by season/show's end.

But that's nearly impossible since it's all convulted to the point of disrepair.

Ponzi question mountain falls.....but it doesn't matter....he's moved onto the next project to destroy.

 

[Codewiz]

I don't want to make excuses for this movie, but that didn't bother me much.

See my post on this:

That would be like a scientist team going to the jungle and discovering a new type of ape. Scan the DNA and say, "Well Bob, it is human because it has some common markers as us in its DNA". It would be no different than calling neanderthals humans. Neanderthals are not human as we would define it by our current DNA. Yes, we share many of the same parts of DNA, just like we share a vast majority of DNA with a chimp but people don't claim a chimp is a human.

I take the movie at its word that the engineers are humans. Different, just like we have different racial make ups.

Either Ridley Scott decided to ignore the whole evolution issue, or they have an explanation but it wasn't included in the theatrical cut.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

As was mentioned earlier, you can see a great deal of variation within a species. A toy poodle and a grate Dane are the same species.

I have no problem with them being 100% human.

Did you even watch the same movie? The captain guy said something along the lines of: "I know why you came up here. You came up here because you want to get laid. Is that right?" She smirked, half-acknowledging it, then went off and did the nasty.

The guy dies with is crew mates; she is a strong woman.

The script DEMANDED they catch a case of the not-gays.

 

[TheSlamma]

As a member of the seen alien and aliens so many times I wore out my VHS copies, I have to say.. didn't care for this movie.

I am a stickler for continuity due to it being the foundation for good story telling. Their tech was more futuristic than it was in the first 2 movies which IMO is a weakness on the directors part. *spoiler alert* Those search bots could have come in handy for the marines in Aliens.. but they didn't have them. The reason this is poor is because these film makers can't control their urge to show off the fancy tech in place of a good set and good story telling.. One of the things that made Alien so good was because it showed it as a dirty place where the ships still needed grease and was always in need of repairs (like it would be) where as star trek everything was spotless. They wiped that formula in place of special effects and fancy sets. What would have been more impressive was making things look even more gritty in comparison to Alien while using the new special effects tech they have today.

*spoiler alert* Also one small nit pick.. in the first movie the space jockey is not wearing an exoskeleton, the creature had teeth and was grown out of the chair. Do you people remember anything if not, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TZlVQZFjvE

I wasn't a horrible movie, but the ties to the Alien universe felt like they were made just to sell tickets.. if it were not tied in like that I don't think many people would have gone to see it.

 

[Ichinisan]

On the DNA scanner, it showed the engineers DNA as being "human". Not "human-like". Not similar to human. Even our current sequencing is specific enough to tell the different between homo sapiens, homo erectus, etc.....

If the DNA was different than human, it would not have scanned as human. Now their genetics could be just different enough that they are larger and stronger while remaining human. No different than a Great Dane and a poodle both are dogs.

Yes, it is a movie but to me this makes the least sense. The ONLY argument I can think of is that the black goo somehow programs the RNA and DNA to evolve in very specific ways that ultimately results in humans coming into existence.

I don't want to make excuses for this movie, but that didn't bother me much.

See my post on this:

As I understand it, the bulk of our DNA is non-relevant stuff. Some of it was injected by viruses and much of it isn't even human DNA. I assume that "100%" would refer only to specific genetic markers that exist only in humans.

That would be like a scientist team going to the jungle and discovering a new type of ape. Scan the DNA and say, "Well Bob, it is human because it has some common markers as us in its DNA". It would be no different than calling neanderthals humans. Neanderthals are not human as we would define it by our current DNA. Yes, we share many of the same parts of DNA, just like we share a vast majority of DNA with a chimp but people don't claim a chimp is a human.

I take the movie at its word that the engineers are humans. Different, just like we have different racial make ups.

Either Ridley Scott decided to ignore the whole evolution issue, or they have an explanation but it wasn't included in the theatrical cut.

I'm talking about specific human markers that differentiate humans from apes. I think they're implying these are what matched between humans and the Engineers.

 

[Ichinisan]

As a member of the seen alien and aliens so many times I wore out my VHS copies, I have to say.. didn't care for this movie.

I am a stickler for continuity due to it being the foundation for good story telling. Their tech was more futuristic than it was in the first 2 movies which IMO is a weakness on the directors part. *spoiler alert* Those search bots could have come in handy for the marines in Aliens.. but they didn't have them. The reason this is poor is because these film makers can't control their urge to show off the fancy tech in place of a good set and good story telling.. One of the things that made Alien so good was because it showed it as a dirty place where the ships still needed grease and was always in need of repairs (like it would be) where as star trek everything was spotless. They wiped that formula in place of special effects and fancy sets. What would have been more impressive was making things look even more gritty in comparison to Alien while using the new special effects tech they have today.

*spoiler alert* Also one small nit pick.. in the first movie the space jockey is not wearing an exoskeleton, the creature had teeth and was grown out of the chair. Do you people remember anything if not, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TZlVQZFjvE

I wasn't a horrible movie, but the ties to the Alien universe felt like they were made just to sell tickets.. if it were not tied in like that I don't think many people would have gone to see it.

No need. They already had complete maps and schematics in Aliens.

 

[Via]

This i always have been wondering about. And i always had this possible explanation :
I noticed from the alien movies that solid materials are not an obstacle for the walking version with the things on the back. With the acid it can dissolve anything. It is also not uncommon that these aliens can produce material to create a "prison" for the victims that will be used for the next reproduction cycle. Since these aliens are almost perfect in every way, it makes sense that it does not eat as mammals do, but that it eats in a way sort of similar found in the bacterial world. Breakdown the environment into atomic building blocks and use these to "feed" : Use by means of various enzymes :hmm: to increase in mass. Which is cell division for bacteria. Of course, for the aliens, almost anything can be used as a build material.

I thought I explained that in my earlier post. The creature was in an oxygen-rich environment for the first time and it's growth responded accordingly.

 

[TheSlamma]

No need. They already had complete maps and schematics in Aliens.

Why the underlined S? Also those drones found life forms so yes it would have been handy.. Sorry but the tech argument still stands.

 

[Ichinisan]

Why the underlined S? Also those drones found life forms so yes it would have been handy.. Sorry but the tech argument still stands.

They were tracking life forms in Aliens pretty well, but they were just confused when the creatures were above or below them.

The underline is meant to clarify which movie I'm talking about for those who may not know the series/titles very well.

 

[BladeVenom]

 

[ImpulsE69]

Why the underlined S? Also those drones found life forms so yes it would have been handy.. Sorry but the tech argument still stands.

No it doesn't. Ridley said long before the movie came out that he did NOT want Prometheus to have the same or earlier tech than Alien/s. He said "been there done that, we can do so much more now blah blah" It was just a choice and had nothing to do with continuity or lack of.

 

[cKGunslinger]

LOL - Too true..

 

[Robert Munch]

Deleted scene in url
http://www.totalfilm.com/news/new-prometheus-image-shows-previously-unseen-alien

 

[William Gaatjes]

I thought I explained that in my earlier post. The creature was in an oxygen-rich environment for the first time and it's growth responded accordingly.

Are you not coupling the explanation for giant dinosaurs with aliens ?
I think that the issue is that a dinosaur feeds and grow as we do. From watching the movies, i get the impression that the Ripley alien can grow much faster.

It is the same issue i have with a lot of sci fi movies. Growing or repairing or producing energy without having the resources.
Wolverine who can regenerate an arm without eating and without loosing body mass ?
Cyclops that can generate a power beam from normal eyes without any support tissue or deformed face ?
For some reason only the writers of the x files actually came up with a good version as can be seen with the grey at the end of season 5, the movie and the beginning of season 6.
If i want to grow fast, i should not eat and consume my host / prey / future building material ... I assimilate it directly by fusing with it and then breaking it down into components i can use directly. This can also be seen in the thing.

For example :
If i would want to grow as an advanced life form , i would not want to eat a prey like the cow. I would attach myself to it, cover it and myself into a thick shell and break it down into atoms i can use.
A tightly coupled immune system, repair system and diagnoses system to analyze problems.
First build the shell.
Secondly build the neural analysis and diagnosis system.
Then rearrange the dna to be able to build the required enzymes.
Then increase my mass or use it for repairs / increase strength of structural weak points. After that, let all support tissues dissolve and break down the shell.
And yay, a new and improved me.
I think the Ripley alien does this as well, but can use any material because it can use corrosive acids that can dissolve anything.

Evolving on the spot depending on the problems i experience from the environment. No more random evolution but evolution based on problem solving...

You will find all these different mechanisms in nature right here on earth, some even with humans. Just not all combined for a single organism and with the level of control i am writing about. At least not yet... If it happens, i do hope it will be humans or it is the end of the evolutionary line.

 

[William Gaatjes]

then you will say how can the engineer DNA match was looks to be 100% with human DNA even though they are taller and have way more muscle than us humans. Even though i enjoyed this movie it has a lot of holes.

This might be a more acceptable explanation IMHO :
Epigenetics. From wiki :

Epigenetics refers to functionally relevant modifications to the genome that do not involve a change in the nucleotide sequence.

Depending on how long multiple genes are active simultaneously, you will get a different result. Instead of activating genes sequentially one at a time, genes are expressed in parallel(This is reality, not sci fi). I am not completely up to date but it is something like this :
DNA >> RNA >> aminoacids >> long chains of aminoacids end up as a protein or an enzyme or some other molecular building block / tool i do not know about.

Humans do not have enough gene material according to the current consensus.
But if you switch genes on in parallel, you get all these proteins and enzymes running parallel, some are activated longer then others and as such influence the end result. Thus with the same dna, you get a very different end result.
And i am not even talking about the ability of shifting dna (junk dna, not really... Just handy when needed but dangerous when combined) around to cope with a previous unknown situation. The advantage of having almost the same dna as every other life form on the planet is that there is a big library present. And there are only so many ways that a protein or an enzyme can be useful at a given environment setting (temperature, background radiation, ph value...)

For example :
We cannot do certain things plants, bacteria or fungi for example can do simply because we do not have the same genes. Yet specialized tissues inside the human body can break down and dispose of any poison as long as the chemical reaction of the poison is not aggressive (fast enough to do permanent damage) enough.