Rest in Peace Terri

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
u know how it was. they never visited her at the same time the blood was so bad. so its basically either him or them:p wouldn't put it above em to secretly video tape either. considering the dishonest way they made those videos. repeating stuff for hours until stuff matched and then clipping:p to do such a tahing you are either totally deluded or full of sh*t and know it.
 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
As much as I detested the parents' wild claims and their ideals, he should at least let them bury their daughter after all this... why even bother fighting for the cremation ?
 
Jan 18, 2001
14,465
1
0
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer


I'm not really following your logic here. It seems like a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing the actuall content of my post. If you want to label me for calling Shiavo's actions out as being a horses a$$ and that's your sole premis for attacking me then go ahead! But calling a spaid a spaid does not hardly put me in contradiction with myself. And I'm not attempting to be holier than thou, if my harsh criticism of this mans selfish acitons offends you than for that I apologize, but I think you've clearly missed my point if you're hanging your hat solely on derogatory comments.

^--- fundamentalist christians like jollyroger is why America can't have nice things.

Boy that's intelligent :roll:. Why don't you paint with a little wider brush next time, I think you missed a spot. And BTW, I'm agnostic. Go home.:cookie:

My point was clear enough, but let me clarify it a bit more.

You were using insults in your arguement (towards the other ATOT member; to some extent toward Shiavo).... which was odd given that your arguement alluded to the idea that 'common decency' should be upheld even at times of emotional duress. But I suppose it all depends on how you define what's decent and what's not.

Diversionary tactic? No, it was a suggestion that you try practicing what you preach. This does address your post's content. How can you expect Shiavo to act maturely after a 10 years of legal and emotional warfare, when you allow yourself to act childishly after 15 minutes of internet? Or perhaps, you disagree that you were acting childishly?

 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.

There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.
There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
For now. But, replace some of those judges with more conservative/religious ones and you are looking at a different dynamic.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.
There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
For now. But, replace some of those judges with more conservative/religious ones and you are looking at a different dynamic.
....and a lot less bitching about "activist judges" once they start ruling as the Fundies wish.

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
CAT Scan
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/images/schiavo_ct_scan.jpg

http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/18/terri-schiavo-news
But there?s something being lost in this discussion of brain imaging methods. The fact that an MRI would give a better structural picture of Terri Schiavo?s brain does not at all mean that the existing CAT scan isn?t good enough for present purposes. I see much serious armchair scan-reading in this thread that signals ignorance of the subject. Let me tell you: if you are sufficiently familiar with brains and brain images, you do not need an MRI to tell you how severely the brain in the pictured CAT scan is damaged, nor do you need to see more slices than the one depicted here. This single image shows a very severely damaged brain. The large ?blue blobs? in the middle are ventricles, also present in healthy brains (you can see the two little dark crescent shapes in the brain on the right) that have expanded to such a large size because the overall brain volume is so low. Cranial space that would otherwize have been filled by gray matter is now filled with cerebrospinal fluid. And yes, that?s what the blue space is: cerebrospinal fluid that is filling up space left behind by necrotic brain tissue that has been scavenged and removed by the body. The white squiggly things are white matter - connective tracts that have the loose, uncoiled look about them that they do because, again, the grey matter that once compressed them is no longer there, so they ?float? loosely in CSF. The gigantic ventricles, expanded white matter, and undifferentiated blue space in that scan all point to the same thing: massive loss of grey matter in the cerebral cortex. You don?t need an MRI to tell you that, it?s clearly visible in the CAT scan.

It is true that given the poor resolution of this image, it?s possible that some cortical tissue has been spared. But that doesn?t matter. Whatever wisps of cortex we might be missing in this image are not enough to sustain behaviors that could differentiate Terri Schiavo from any other vertebrate. All the neural equipment you need to do ocular following and emotional responses is subcortical. All the neural equipment you need to be a self-aware, reasoning, behaving human being is cortical. And since i gather this image was made some time ago, the present condition of the brain can only be worse.

There is no way any qualified brain doctor or scientist could look at this image and suggest that significant recovery of function is possible. The fact that we could have all this discussion on the subject is a triumph of politics over science. Tragic for Terri Schiavo, and really for us all.


http://binarycircumstance.typepad.com/bc_blog/2005/03/terri_schiavos_.html
UPDATE 03/29/05: Dan Abrams interviews Ronald E. Cranford M.D. who was one of the neurologists who examined Terri Schiavo for The Abrams Report. This report includes pictures of Terri Schiavo's CAT scan and Dr. Cranford comments on the extent of her brain damage.

ABRAMS: Let's talk about the CT scan. You actually have the CT scan.

CRANFORD: Yes, this is a CT scan of Terri Schiavo taken in 2002, the most recent CT scan done on her, 2002.

ABRAMS: Tell us what it means.

CRANFORD: Well it shows extremely severe atrophy. Where those black areas are, that should be white. That should be cerebral cortex, and so really there is no cerebral cortex left. It's just a shrinkage of the cerebral cortex. It's a thin band of white on the outside and any neurologist or any radiologist looking at those CT scans will tell you that her atrophy could not be more severe than it is. So even if she were mentally conscious, which she's not, she's irreversible. She's been like this for 15 years, Dan, and that CT scan shows the most extreme severe atrophy of the higher centers of the brain.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.
There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
For now. But, replace some of those judges with more conservative/religious ones and you are looking at a different dynamic.

I don't think so. There are more conservatives on the bench now if I'm not mistaken than liberal and they ruled 10:2 IIRC to uphold the original ruling and have the tube removed.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
0
Originally posted by: rh71
As much as I detested the parents' wild claims and their ideals, he should at least let them bury their daughter after all this... why even bother fighting for the cremation ?

he is the husband, and legal guardian.

spouses bury spouses. The parents have no claim to this woman's corpse!

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.
There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
For now. But, replace some of those judges with more conservative/religious ones and you are looking at a different dynamic.
....and a lot less bitching about "activist judges" once they start ruling as the Fundies wish.

and a lot less bitching about "activist judges" once they start ruling as the Fundies wish.

God help us once that starts happening
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think so. There are more conservatives on the bench now if I'm not mistaken than liberal and they ruled 10:2 IIRC to uphold the original ruling and have the tube removed.
I'm talking about the lower courts, not the SCOTUS.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: BroeBo
Wow can we not hear anything else about it now? She is finally where she wanted to be a long time ago.
If only.

The Fund-A-Mentals will be in an uproar now and will demand Bush do something to prevent this from happening again (read, push for the confirmation of more conservative judges to the Federal courts).

It's far from over.
There are conservative justices on the Supreme court. The Supreme court only rules on the procedure followed by the lower courts and they ruled correctly that the lower court did follow procedure. The justice system worked as it should.
For now. But, replace some of those judges with more conservative/religious ones and you are looking at a different dynamic.
....and a lot less bitching about "activist judges" once they start ruling as the Fundies wish.

and a lot less bitching about "activist judges" once they start ruling as the Fundies wish.

God help us once that starts happening
God will be helping us at that point, right? ;)

 

rh71

No Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
52,844
1,049
126
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: rh71
As much as I detested the parents' wild claims and their ideals, he should at least let them bury their daughter after all this... why even bother fighting for the cremation ?

he is the husband, and legal guardian.

spouses bury spouses. The parents have no claim to this woman's corpse!
well I was talking about him cutting them some slack in the very end... but I guess legalities stand in the way ? No, it doesn't have to. If he had an honest reason for cremation, then I can see why but this guy is very spiteful.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think so. There are more conservatives on the bench now if I'm not mistaken than liberal and they ruled 10:2 IIRC to uphold the original ruling and have the tube removed.
I'm talking about the lower courts, not the SCOTUS.

Are you talking about the District Court that originally heard the case? Or the Courts of Appeals?

Since the Democrats and/or Republicans stay in power is relatively short lived and a Justice is appointed for life the President doesn't really have much power to change the makeup of the bench unless a bunch of Justices kick off suddenly.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
I think she was resting in peace until someone created that fake Snickers ad. She's now a class IV demon with hate +3 and the ability to induce instant death by starvation on enemies.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Headline News reporter: "As the nation mourns the death of Terri Schiavo"

The Nation mourns the death? Give me a flippin' break
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't think so. There are more conservatives on the bench now if I'm not mistaken than liberal and they ruled 10:2 IIRC to uphold the original ruling and have the tube removed.
I'm talking about the lower courts, not the SCOTUS.
Are you talking about the District Court that originally heard the case? Or the Courts of Appeals?

Since the Democrats and/or Republicans stay in power is relatively short lived and a Justice is appointed for life the President doesn't really have much power to change the makeup of the bench unless a bunch of Justices kick off suddenly.
Federal courts where the Senate approves nominations. You know, that list of conservative judges that were rejected in the Propagandist's first term that he's going to try and shove through again?
 
Mar 19, 2003
18,289
2
71
Originally posted by: NFS4
Headline News reporter: "As the nation mourns the death of Terri Schiavo"

The Nation mourns the death? Give me a flippin' break

They've gotta stay in business somehow, eh? :roll:
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: JoLLyRoGer


I'm not really following your logic here. It seems like a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing the actuall content of my post. If you want to label me for calling Shiavo's actions out as being a horses a$$ and that's your sole premis for attacking me then go ahead! But calling a spaid a spaid does not hardly put me in contradiction with myself. And I'm not attempting to be holier than thou, if my harsh criticism of this mans selfish acitons offends you than for that I apologize, but I think you've clearly missed my point if you're hanging your hat solely on derogatory comments.

^--- fundamentalist christians like jollyroger is why America can't have nice things.

Boy that's intelligent :roll:. Why don't you paint with a little wider brush next time, I think you missed a spot. And BTW, I'm agnostic. Go home.:cookie:

My point was clear enough, but let me clarify it a bit more.

You were using insults in your arguement (towards the other ATOT member; to some extent toward Shiavo).... which was odd given that your arguement alluded to the idea that 'common decency' should be upheld even at times of emotional duress. But I suppose it all depends on how you define what's decent and what's not.

Diversionary tactic? No, it was a suggestion that you try practicing what you preach. This does address your post's content. How can you expect Shiavo to act maturely after a 10 years of legal and emotional warfare, when you allow yourself to act childishly after 15 minutes of internet? Or perhaps, you disagree that you were acting childishly?

My point was simply that after all the bad blood, it doesn't suprise me how he reacted. Heck, I am sure that there are some people in this forum who have seen a family member die slowly. Even a few of us have had a family friend or member in a coma for a year and maybe they had to pull the plug. Look at everything Micheal has had to deal with. Look at the emotional stress of seeing his wife unable to care for herself and the fact she is a vegetable. Look at all the money he spent and time to try to get her better. Then her parents step in and the legal battle starts. Look at the slander that her parents unleashed on him claiming he was a wife beater and other personal attacks, all of which are unproven and/or downright untrue. After 15 years of this ordeal, wouldn't you feel just a little upset too?

I am not saying that I agree with what Micheal did. I just said I would be pissed too in his situation. To say you wouldn't deny rights to have her parents in the room at the time of death isn't accurate. Now be honest with yourself, you have no idea how you would react in a situation like this. I would be willing to bet that none of us have been in this situation for that long a period of time.

How would I react? Put me in that spot and I will be able to tell you 15 years later. A lot can change in that time. Even your "common decency".

Speaking of decency, I would agree with HomeBrewerDude in that while you may have common decency in mind when it comes to Terri, you really have a little to learn when it comes to respecting other people.

EDIT: This was primarially sent to the attention of JoLLyRoGer but I added some clarifaction to my point to everyone who has been following this.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,391
19,709
146
I used to spend my days fearing the religious right and supporting the left...

Until one day I took an objective look and noticed that most of my lost or endangered freedoms and rights were not being taken by the religious right, but by the authoritarian "liberal" left socialists.

In fact, if anything, I was impressed by just how impotent the RR really is in this country.
 

Nightfall

Golden Member
Nov 16, 1999
1,769
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
I used to spend my days fearing the religious right and supporting the left...

Until one day I took an objective look and noticed that most of my lost or endangered freedoms and rights were not being taken by the religious right, but by the authoritarian "liberal" left socialists.

In fact, if anything, I was impressed by just how impotent the RR really is in this country.

If anything, our rights are being taken away by both sides equally. If it isn't the RR trying to ban pornography, add censorship to video games, ban the sales of violent video games to adults, and so on, then you have the lefties on another whole separate set of issues.

In the end, it all boils down to what you believe in and what you find acceptable.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Amused
I used to spend my days fearing the religious right and supporting the left...

Until one day I took an objective look and noticed that most of my lost or endangered freedoms and rights were not being taken by the religious right, but by the authoritarian "liberal" left socialists.

In fact, if anything, I was impressed by just how impotent the RR really is in this country.
WTF?

So, the Fund-A-Mentals and the authoritarian right were NOT trying to interfere in a private family matter? That legislation passed by Congress (note that only 3 Republican Senators were present on the Sunday it was passed by the Senate...how convenient) and signed by the President that involves only a single US citizen is not an egregious use of the Federal government?