Repeat after me: "I don't live in a police state" (UK)

[HAL9000]

And here we're so free we can walk down most streets knowing that anyone may be carrying a knife, gun or both and feel perfectly safe regardless.

The gun death statistics comparing the UK to the US disagree with how safe you are

 

[Fenixgoon]

That's a very important part of it, but with gun laws it's definitely to stop people getting hold of them in the first place, knife laws are not so much about that as the knives are legal to own.

so right now people have fists and criminals have knives... what exactly is your trollish solution?

 

[Howard]

You can walk around with a big fake knife.

Sure you can, until you are arrested by a policeman alerted by aware citizen(s).

It's so free you can walk down the street knowing that no law abiding citizens around you is carrying a knife or gun.

I don't understand how A, therefore B. Please elaborate in such a manner as to still pertain to the gist of my original question.

 

[HAL9000]

so right now people have fists and criminals have knives... what exactly is your trollish solution?

Arrest the criminals.

 

[HAL9000]

I don't understand how A, therefore B. Please elaborate in such a manner as to still pertain to the gist of my original question.

The statement was completely self contained. What more do you need?

 

[Howard]

The gun death statistics comparing the UK to the US disagree with how safe you are

Your response does not refute his statement.

 

[Howard]

The statement was completely self contained. What more do you need?

Before I tell you, can you tell me if my first statement in that post is correct?

 

[HAL9000]

Your response does not refute his statement.

What statement? (I looked back and don't know what you are getting at)

Before I tell you, can you tell me if my first statement in that post is correct?

It is correct.

 

[Howard]

What statement? (I looked back and don't know what you are getting at)

"Feeling safe" and "being safe" are not the same thing.

It is correct.

Thank you. What is the basis for your claim that the least amount of restriction of personal freedom (or close to it) is to be found in the UK?

Some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_order

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

http://www.economist.com/node/13497460?story_id=13497460

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8567528.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-enforced_ANPR_in_the_UK#Abuse

 

[HAL9000]

"Feeling safe" and "being safe" are not the same thing.

Well then you need to question the feelings you have.

Thank you. What is the basis for your claim that the least amount of restriction of personal freedom (or close to it) is to be found in the UK?

Some food for thought:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_order

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

http://www.economist.com/node/13497460?story_id=13497460

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8567528.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police-enforced_ANPR_in_the_UK#Abuse

Freedom from hate speech, free health care would be my first immediate thoughts as an answer for that question.

 

[irishScott]

The gun death statistics comparing the UK to the US disagree with how safe you are

The fact that I've gone my entire life without being stabbed or shot at demonstrates how safe I am. The fact that I walk around my town at 5 in the morning in pajamas un-molested shows how safe I am. Is every area this safe? No. Even in this area we've have rapes, robberies and assaults above the national averag, and I've had my share of encounters, but they all ended peacefully due to some common sense. Am I safe? I'd say so. Never had to defend myself, but if I had to I could.

 

[Howard]

Well then you need to question the feelings you have.



Freedom from hate speech, free health care would be my first immediate thoughts as an answer for that question.

Free health care is not freedom, it's an entitlement.

As for "freedom from hate speech", can you explain what exactly this is and how it can be defined as a freedom?

 

[HAL9000]

The fact that I've gone my entire life without being stabbed or shot at demonstrates how safe I am.

The same cant be said for an absurdly high number of people in the USA

 

[HAL9000]

Free health care is not freedom, it's an entitlement.

As for "freedom from hate speech", can you explain what exactly this is and how it can be defined as a freedom?

Arresting people who commit hate speech prevents them from doing it again.

 

[irishScott]

The same cant be said for an absurdly high number of people in the USA

Look at the demographics of those statistics. Their socio-economic level, race, etc and things might become a little clearer. The majority of shootings and stabbings are largely confined to certain areas. They are not dispersed evenly throughout the nation. So the violent areas tend to be very violent, and the safe areas tend to be very safe, with a few in-the-middle areas which are safe enough.

 

[HAL9000]

Look at the demographics of those statistics. Their socio-economic level, race, etc and things might become a little clearer. The majority of shootings and stabbings are largely confined to certain areas. They are not dispersed evenly throughout the nation. So the violent areas tend to be very violent, and the safe areas tend to be very safe, with a few in-the-middle areas which are safe enough.

I'm out, this conversation has gone too far.

 

[Howard]

Arresting people who commit hate speech prevents them from doing it again.

You haven't answered the question.

 

[irishScott]

I'm out, this conversation has gone too far.

Wait, so I can call you names and you'll respond to infinity, but I actually give an academic argument and you pout and leave? You are a child lol.

 

[HAL9000]

You haven't answered the question.

I feel like that question was a last second edit... Maybe not, either way my answer is.

We have the right to walk down the street without having hate speech shouted at us.

Wait, so I can call you names and you'll respond to infinity, but I actually give an academic argument and you leave? You are a child lol.

When we start getting into the correlation between race and death rates, I'm out.

 

[Howard]

I feel like that question was a last second edit... Maybe not, either way my answer is.

We have the right to walk down the street without having hate speech shouted at us.

Well, so far you're stuck at defining this as a freedom, and if this is the best you have then maybe the UK is not so free after all.

 

[irishScott]

When we start getting into the correlation between race and death rates, I'm out.

Sou you're saying the FBI has the wrong numbers?
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/additional-ucr-publications/age_race_arrest93-01.pdf (P. 55)
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_02.html

 

[HAL9000]

Well, so far you're stuck at defining this as a freedom, and if this is the best you have then maybe the UK is not so free after all.

I didn't say it's the best, I just said it's an example of a freedom we have that many other countries don't.

Sou you're saying the FBI has the wrong numbers?
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/additional-ucr-publications/age_race_arrest93-01.pdf (P. 55)
http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_02.html

I'm saying I'm not getting into it.

 

[irishScott]

I didn't say it's the best, I just said it's an example of a freedom we have that many other countries don't.



I'm saying I'm not getting into it.

Because your argument that America is some violent hellhole where an "absurd number of people get shot or stabbed" wouldn't hold water and you know it.

And race is a factor for reasons of culture and history of racism in America, which produce a socioeconomic disparity. That's a fact whether either of us like it or not. Isn't Europe having some multiculturalism problems now? Does the fact that a lot of it has to do with Islamic immigrants make you leave that conversation too?

 

[HAL9000]

Because your argument that America is some violent hellhole where an "absurd number of people get shot or stabbed" wouldn't hold water and you know it.

an absurd number of people get shot and stabbed in America is just a statement of fact.

 

[irishScott]

an absurd number of people get shot and stabbed in America is just a statement of fact.

Not absurd when you take into account the factors I mentioned, as well as many others I didn't. Many of which the UK and other nations simply don't have (or have at a lesser magnitude). You're lumping Americans into one big number with one big mentality as if we were an entirely homogenous culture; with no regard for demographics of any sort. No regard for cultural tensions, cultural histories or socioeconomic levels. Anyone but you would laugh.