Repeal SP1 and SP2 Rally at all UC campuses tommorrow: What's your view on affirmative action?

[hans007]

i wasnt saying they didnt meet minimum standards. other people exceeded them more. This is a selective school. You have to be above the minimum to even have a chance to get in and be the best to actually get in. If you base admissions on those minimums 1/4 of high school graduates could get into ucla. Minimums are just that minimum. If you really were far above the minimum you'd get in anyways. I mean there ARE minorities here, its not like people are commiting hate crimes against them and making them leave. So they have to the best rise to the top, and with the way admissions are gauging people's worth it ends up this way. There are way more applicants than spots thus this long i'll call it filtering process because i cant think of a better word right now. Bringing race into it will not do anything. It makes some races more important than others and i stand by the fact that i think thats wrong. Like i stated before there is a difference between "qualified" and "more qualified".

Standards are there so you can be more objective. The reason they have minimums and standards etc, is i think because its hard to claim objectivity without being able to quantify things. Also a degree is a degree , but a lot if there was affirmative action, some people would have a bias as to who holds that degree just because of affirmative action. I'm not saying i would, but some people will and that will perpetuate racism compared to not having affrimative action at all, so they couldn't even think that and prevent that possibility.

man , i wasn't even done posting my other post and when i hit reply you had already posted . man i love this thread, one of the more stimulating things i've bothered to do this week. so much better than compsci.

 

[OutHouse]

aren't you pissed off that in the view of the government all Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and etc are all lumped under "Asian"

ummm a persons nationality and race are two different things.

 

[Triumph]

You seem to have made a grammatical error in one of your statements, Trash. I fixed it for you:

Fact #2: Affirmative action is "reverse discrimination."
Myth: Reverse discrimination cannot be perpetuated by people who are not inposititons of power to begin with!!!

A simple mistake. Could've happened to anyone.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

UC colleges are about as progessive as Nazi Germany! If anyone challenges their thinking they are instantly labeled as a racist. Case in point this whole fiasco with the Daily Cal (UCB paper). They published an article about why slavery reparations are a bad idea, and instantly they had all the stupid fringe groups calling them racist, so they pulled it. They serverly compromised their journalistic integrity by letting some leftist rebel without a clue wackos push them into pulling an article and then issuing and apology. At the Univeristy of Michigan were the article was also published (but they didn't pull it), the school papers office had bottles thrown through the windows.

Another example is the Thursday protest in downtown Berkeley. BAMN, one of the many liberal wacko college groups rallied together high school students around the bay area to protest for AA. I can tell you that 99% of the kids there didn't know or care WTF they were protesting for, it was just an excuse to get crazy and loot stores downtown. BAMN just used them to bring attention to their little pet cause. It's so fscking disgusting I don't believe it, some people should really just be lined up and shot. They are masquerading as open minded free thinkers, and yet they are so quick to stomp out any opinions that disagree with them with VIOLENCE and SLANDER. Isn't it ironic that these self-righteous nitwits resemble a group of people that they love to loath, the NAZIs.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Fact: Reverse discrimination cannot be perpetuated by people who are not inposititons of power to begin with!!!

It's not, it's being perpetuated by stupid white people who feel guilty for being such evil racist opressors that white people inherently are.

 

[hans007]

yea i read about that thing with the high school kids. The school board of sanfrancisco if i recall at first endorsed it , and then they said that the logistics of having that many kids traveling to berkeley was too complicated, so they said they wanted kids to go to regular school and have the teachers teach pro AA stuff. The retraction thing was bad, that ruins all credibility, and oddly the only thing i can think of there is the gary payton faux suspension. Same type of deal though.

 

[Raspewtin]

<< Raspewtin, what damage are you taking about? >>



When I was at UCLA the amount of underqualified minorities admitted with affirmitive action was obvious. I knew one individual who was pre-med, affirmative action, and couldn't spell words such as &quot;will&quot; (I am not kidding) Basically every one of the places these students (not all affirmative action students, just the underqualified ones) occupied could go to qualified individuals. If assistance was purely economic in nature, and all these students were actually qualified SendTrash, they wouldn't need affirmative action b/c they would (1) be qualified for acceptance (2) receive the economic assitance they need to enroll. IMO at least some individuals accept they would never be accepted to the UCs even if they had the money if it weren't for affirmative action. Now I am not saying that all affirmative action students are underqualified, but some clearly are to me.




<< Under UC academic standards, every student at the UC is qualified! People of color make up more than 50% of the California population. The belief that only a small percentage of theses minorities can succeed at a UC is racist >>



First of all, there are only certain minorities that benefit from affirmative action, and there are other certain minorities that are less populus and do very well in school. Thus affirmative action does NOT represent minorities overall. Using the label racism so freely is really not that wise. It also really does nothing to help drum up support. I won't disagree that white men have too much power. That will change with time (it's changing already). But the fact is that this is an economic issue, not a racial one. Certain minorities are economically disadvantaged, which is unfortunate. But we should be giving opportunities equally to all less economically advantaged individuals, not specifically to certain minorities. There is no legitimate way to support the policy and fight racism IMO

 

[datalink7]

No to AA

Some say that, because schools aren't equal, we need AA. I say you can't enact a policy that is wrong, just to fix a wrong. The end does NOT justify the means.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

Exactly. Two wrongs don't make a right. You don't fight fire with fire. Duh!!!

Actually that's giving them too much credit, I don't think there is a wrong being committed in the first place that needs correction with AA.

 

[Dameon]

count me another voice against AA.

Stood on the counter-protest line at UT when our Hopwood Decision came down. This is not brown v board of education as pro AA advocates want to scream and bellyache. AA is a flawed system that perpetuates a system focusing on race instead of what one can offer the unversity. Judge me for WHO I am, not WHAT I am

 

[OutHouse]

Judge me for WHO I am, not WHAT I am

well said!

with that said you could say AA is a form of racism, and it its IMHO

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

so uh with this protest, does this mean the students aren't going to be taking their final exams? cuz i would love to see the curve drop in my favor...

 

[SendTrash]

<< so uh with this protest, does this mean the students aren't going to be taking their final exams? cuz i would love to see the curve drop in my favor... >>


You can see why the Regents planed this Meeting at this time. It was directed to keep student protest down. A politic move...
But the meeting is only for two days, and finals will be taken.... btw I hope you were joking, lol

 

[AmbitV]

<< Affirmative action is a sham, a crutch and supposed quick fix to a problem that has deeper roots. the only fix is to fix it at the start and fix the horrible schools some people have to go to. >>



I always had felt the same way about affirmative action as I was growing up. I'm now at the end of my 3rd year at UCLA, and my views regarding AA have completely changed. Yes, the problem has much deeper roots, but I've come to realize that even if that's true, that doesn't mean there should be no affirmative action at all. You can't just consider the minorities that have already been discriminated against as a sacrifice or something.
More importantly, the point is we haven't found a fix to those deeper problems yet.
Even if we find a solution tommorow, we still need something for today!

I'm Asian, and I used to hate AA, as the UC system actually accepts more Asians without AA.
But one day I started to rethink my reasoning for why I accepted the view that AA was bad. And then I asked myself a question, the answer to which I still don't think I've answered:
If all men and women are truly created equal, then why isn't there equal representation in the universities?
If say, 10% of the population is African American, and assuming African Americans are equal to any other nationality, then why is the percentage so low in college admissions of African Americans?

Either we reject the premise that all are created equal, or there is apparently something wrong here. This is what has haunted me.

 

[hans007]

vman, cultural and economic differences.

 

[AmbitV]

<< vman, cultural and economic differences. >>



cultural - no way! So you're arguing that minorities don't want to goto college because it's part of their culture??? BS!!! Besides, it's obvious that many minorities want to get in, just look at all the protesting. And please don't even begin to suggest that different cultures have different levels of IQ.

economic - agreed. But again, if everyone is created equal, and everything is fair, then shouldn't there be equal numbers of rich/poor for each nationality? I agree that most minorities are immigrants that are coming from poor third world countries...but ok, even if you look at non-immigrants that were born here!

 

[shopbruin]

<<Some say that, because schools aren't equal, we need AA. I say you can't enact a policy that is wrong, just to fix a wrong. The end does NOT justify the means >>

then how do we level the playing field for everyone? a person that lives in beverly hills obviously has more access to resources than someone that lives in an underprivleged neighborhood. how can we make it equal so that the underprivleged has the chance to take the same $1000 sat prep course to overinflate their scores? what about the high school that can't offer ap classes because they only have a few students that are interested in making the yearlong commitment in studying and taking the exams?

in high schools i was against all sat prep courses because they are WRONG. its not that i couldn't afford it; its because they're just plainly insane. pay us over a thousand dollars and we'll help to over inflate a score that only measures how well you take a test.

my view on affirmative action is something needs to be done. in high school i was very much &quot;stop affirmative action! i'll lose MY spot in the universities to someone that isn't qualified.&quot; but those that don't have the access to something that can help them get ahead wouldn't even have the chance to get into my safety schools in the UC system.

the rally yesterday rocked. seeing people mobilize in such great numbers was great. my asian am ta was telling me how when she was at UCSD they actually took over part of the 5 freeway.

 

[Heifetz]

I don't see what all the lame students over at the UCs is fussing over the repeal of SP1 and SP2. Even if they are replealed, prop 209 still stands, and the ban on AA would still be in effect. The students that are involved in the rallies are really making fools of themselves with their non-rational arguments and childish behavior.


Heifetz

 

[PistachioByAzul]

If say, 10% of the population is African American, and assuming African Americans are equal to any other nationality, then why is the percentage so low in college admissions of African Americans?

Poor High School performance.

 

[AmbitV]

and why is that?

 

[hans007]

cultural differences.

&quot;So you're arguing that minorities don't want to goto college because it's part of their culture???&quot;


some cultures for some reason or another dont emphasize doing well in high school , doing well on tests etc. If you want to believe that negativity or different priorities doesnt exist in different cultures, well you are just naive

 

[Emos]

<< Judge me for WHO I am, not WHAT I am >>



Exactly....that's why I have to vote against AA.

 

[AmbitV]

<< some cultures for some reason or another dont emphasize doing well in high school , doing well on tests etc. If you want to believe that negativity or different priorities doesnt exist in different cultures, well you are just naive >>



Ah, ok so some cultures don't have college as a priority... So I suppose all those minorities across the state that marched and protested today just did it for the exercise.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

So I suppose all those minorities across the state that marched and protested today just did it for the exercise.

They feel liked they're owed something just because they're minorities, not because they did well in HS or on their SATs.

 

[AmbitV]

<< They feel liked they're owed something >>



Just the fact that they feel like they're owed admission shows they're concerned about going to college!
And why should we assume that they feel they're owed admission just because they're a minority...maybe they feel they're owed because they've tried their hardest and still got rejected.
And has it ever occured to you that they couldn't do well in high school because of discrimination?
What makes whites do well in high school and minorities do poorly? The fact that whites are smarter?