Release the Krak... err FISA Memo!

[ewdotson]

Yup. Please ignore that the notional reason that Comey was fired was that he was treated Clinton unfairly. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

 

[Pens1566]

I don't get the calculus of this effort given the report today from the NYT that it all revolves around a re-auth of the Carter Page FISA warrant. That would as much as admit several yuge things:

1) That a member of the campaign was under FISA surveillance, thus all but confirming the russia connection
2) That Page had been shown within reasonable doubt to be a foreign agent (to a FISC judge for original warrant)
3) That Nunes either somehow got acces to intel he wasn't allowed (due to recusal) or is making all this shit up
4) That the FISC had found the original warrant was yielding results and was worthy of a further re-auth (which is required)
5) That republicans don't understand Rosenstein can't single handedly "approve" a FISA warrant
6) That Page has been under valid FISA warrant that predates any of the current DoJ folks they're trying to make villains out of

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So the GOP voted against letting justice review and provide feedback on both memos to the entire house. Voted to release theirs but not the Dem memo but might reconsider in a week releasing the Dem memo after they’ve set the narrative.

Also the FBI and the DOJ were under a GOP only investigation that wasn’t disclosed to the Dem members of the committee. They made it formal today. So if either department pushes back at the factual basis of the GOP memo they can dismiss that as them being under investigation.

This is just shameful. Fucking disgusting really. Their argument for not releasing the Dem memo was sources and methods risk. Then vote not to allow review of those memos to ensure there’s no risk. The Judiciary Committees should be looking into anything to do with the DOJ and FBI. Not the intel committee. And if that’s the case why release this before anything has been investigated.

 

[K1052]

Jesus the house GOP is a transparent clownshow that's apparently willing to undermine any person or institution in their quest to protect Trump.

If Steve King is calling it "worse than Watergate" I know it's the most made up bullshit in the long history of bullshit.

 

[VRAMdemon]

It doesn't really matter what's in the memo. It's served its purpose as Macguffin to rile up Trumpists into believing there is a Deep State conspiracy. Facts do not matter. Emotion matters. The memo was not meant to convey facts. You would think Nunes would have put somebody else's name on it, having blown any semblance of credibility he had when he was outed as Trump's messenger boy last year.

 

[Pens1566]

So, a couple of things about this. This is a panicked, stupid move. There must be something seriously damaging to "Team Treason Weasel" on it's way for them to go this far. Also, why die on the Trump hill? You've got Pence in the bullpen. He's one of you, with better approval ratings, and less insanity. Well, I bet he's not any cleaner. Something really stinks on this one. And I think we're all going to smell it very quickly.

 

[vi edit]

So the GOP voted against letting justice review and provide feedback on both memos to the entire house. Voted to release theirs but not the Dem memo but might reconsider in a week releasing the Dem memo after they’ve set the narrative.

Also the FBI and the DOJ were under a GOP only investigation that wasn’t disclosed to the Dem members of the committee. They made it formal today. So if either department pushes back at the factual basis of the GOP memo they can dismiss that as them being under investigation.

This is just shameful. Fucking disgusting really. Their argument for not releasing the Dem memo was sources and methods risk. Then vote not to allow review of those memos to ensure there’s no risk. The Judiciary Committees should be looking into anything to do with the DOJ and FBI. Not the intel committee. And if that’s the case why release this before anything has been investigated.

Hopefully Mueller is keeping notes and the "Who's Obstructing Justice List?" is getting a little bit longer. Good god this is pathetic. Anyone who lives in these guys districts PLEASE jettison these shitheads in November.

 

[Jhhnn]

I don't get the calculus of this effort given the report today from the NYT that it all revolves around a re-auth of the Carter Page FISA warrant. That would as much as admit several yuge things:

1) That a member of the campaign was under FISA surveillance, thus all but confirming the russia connection
2) That Page had been shown within reasonable doubt to be a foreign agent (to a FISC judge for original warrant)
3) That Nunes either somehow got acces to intel he wasn't allowed (due to recusal) or is making all this shit up
4) That the FISC had found the original warrant was yielding results and was worthy of a further re-auth (which is required)
5) That republicans don't understand Rosenstein can't single handedly "approve" a FISA warrant
6) That Page has been under valid FISA warrant that predates any of the current DoJ folks they're trying to make villains out of

Not quite. The original FISA warrant wrt Page wasn't issued until after he resigned the campaign in Sept of 2016. It wasn't surveillance of the Trump campaign at all.

Duh.

 

[Pens1566]

Not quite. The original FISA warrant wrt Page wasn't issued until after he resigned the campaign in Sept of 2016. It wasn't surveillance of the Trump campaign at all.

Duh.

I mean it's semantics at best. Warrant was issued in summer '16. Might have been after he "left" the campaign. But, it would have been based on evidence against him gathered while he was still official.

 

[kage69]

Some group of idiots and traitors had to give Nunes a shovel, and now look what happened.

I'm starting to think it's about time to warm up the tar, break out the feathers. One more unconscionable load of horseshit from this stain on the office.

 

[UglyCasanova]

Pelosi and Cuomo were going at it.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/29/politics/nancy-pelosi-fbi-memo/index.html

 

[dank69]

And here we have a sitting federal representative appearing on Infowars:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-rep-gaetz-joins-infowar-fbi-223319761.html

 

[vi edit]

And here we have a sitting federal representative appearing on Infowars:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-rep-gaetz-joins-infowar-fbi-223319761.html

7 time DUI champion and the *ONLY* person in congress to vote against a human trafficking bill. Matt Gaetz, a real beacon of moral decency.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

And here we have a sitting federal representative appearing on Infowars:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-rep-gaetz-joins-infowar-fbi-223319761.html

I really have no words at this point that can do justice to just how absurd this is becoming. There's no parallel. There's nothing to compare it to. This is the height of lunacy at this point.

And at the exact same time the Trump admin is saying "we do need no stinkin' sanctions". Right now the Russians are still actively engaged in their efforts. The #releasethememo hashtag is being pushed by the Russians. There have been exactly zero steps communicated public about what is being done to protect the electoral process moving forward.

 

[dank69]

I really have no words at this point that can do justice to just how absurd this is becoming. There's no parallel. There's nothing to compare it to. This is the height of lunacy at this point.

And at the exact same time the Trump admin is saying "we do need no stinkin' sanctions". Right now the Russians are still actively engaged in their efforts. The #releasethememo hashtag is being pushed by the Russians. There have been exactly zero steps communicated public about what is being done to protect the electoral process moving forward.

Good. America wants to be controlled by the Russians, the wealthy, and their GOP puppets. Let's do this.

 

[Moonbeam]

Good. America wants to be controlled by the Russians, the wealthy, and their GOP puppets. Let's do this.

Republicans are so morally outraged by liberals they are willing to destroy it to get even. Liberals are so morally outraged at conservatives they are becoming willing to help them destroy it. Where is the morality in moral outrage?

What would happen if people conditioned to respect authority and rules by being punished as children and threatened with expulsion from the love of the group on whom one depends for survival and survived that by Stockholm syndrome ran into people who survived that same scenario by rejecting the notion that the conditioners actually had any such real authority? And what if it were impossible to determine who experienced the greater level of torture? You would wind up, would you not, with one group of victims who victimize and another group of victims who are more supportive of them?

It would seem to me if looked at that way we are actually all victims and all of us are morally outraged by that fact, violently morally outraged in fact, but with nobody anywhere to point to, to blame.

It would be easy to see how in such a state of impotent rage people would want to burn everything down.

The question I would finally ask is whether there might be a way out of the blame game, the trap of moral outrage, for those who consciously suffer, for those who feel and undergo the self love that is possible for those who morn and experience the cleansing made possible by real grief. We are none of us guilty of anything and have all been forgiven.

 

[HomerJS]

Republicans are so morally outraged by liberals they are willing to destroy it to get even. Liberals are so morally outraged at conservatives they are becoming willing to help them destroy it. Where is the morality in moral outrage?

What would happen if people conditioned to respect authority and rules by being punished as children and threatened with expulsion from the love of the group on whom one depends for survival and survived that by Stockholm syndrome ran into people who survived that same scenario by rejecting the notion that the conditioners actually had any such real authority? And what if it were impossible to determine who experienced the greater level of torture? You would wind up, would you not, with one group of victims who victimize and another group of victims who are more supportive of them?

It would seem to me if looked at that way we are actually all victims and all of us are morally outraged by that fact, violently morally outraged in fact, but with nobody anywhere to point to, to blame.

It would be easy to see how in such a state of impotent rage people would want to burn everything down.

The question I would finally ask is whether there might be a way out of the blame game, the trap of moral outrage, for those who consciously suffer, for those who feel and undergo the self love that is possible for those who morn and experience the cleansing made possible by real grief. We are none of us guilty of anything and have all been forgiven.

We won't get there until a we can agree on a certain set of facts. Reality has been turned into a giant grey screen that too many people can't see past.

 

[dank69]

Republicans are so morally outraged by liberals they are willing to destroy it to get even. Liberals are so morally outraged at conservatives they are becoming willing to help them destroy it. Where is the morality in moral outrage?

What would happen if people conditioned to respect authority and rules by being punished as children and threatened with expulsion from the love of the group on whom one depends for survival and survived that by Stockholm syndrome ran into people who survived that same scenario by rejecting the notion that the conditioners actually had any such real authority? And what if it were impossible to determine who experienced the greater level of torture? You would wind up, would you not, with one group of victims who victimize and another group of victims who are more supportive of them?

It would seem to me if looked at that way we are actually all victims and all of us are morally outraged by that fact, violently morally outraged in fact, but with nobody anywhere to point to, to blame.

It would be easy to see how in such a state of impotent rage people would want to burn everything down.

The question I would finally ask is whether there might be a way out of the blame game, the trap of moral outrage, for those who consciously suffer, for those who feel and undergo the self love that is possible for those who morn and experience the cleansing made possible by real grief. We are none of us guilty of anything and have all been forgiven.

My answer to your final question is: there certainly does not seem to be a way out. The world is fucking flat.

 

[Moonbeam]

We won't get there until a we can agree on a certain set of facts. Reality has been turned into a giant grey screen that too many people can't see past.

What you are saying is that the facts determine who has a right to moral outrage, whose moral outrage is right. That is a war fought on a macro level, which group is sane and which is not. My post was directed at dank or anybody as a person. My question was is it possible to get past moral outrage. If so then my suggestion would be that freedom from the condition of moral outrage could possibly be had by the individual. I was saying to dank that maybe there's a way where he doesn't have to feel a need to see us run off a cliff. What if the pain he feels isn't exactly necessary even if he is right about everything on a moral level.

Perhaps a story that just popped into my head would help. A Zen Master was accused by a young woman of being the father of her child and the family brought the baby to him with that accusation. He said, "Is that so!" and took the child to raise. Later in guilt, grief and remorse, the woman recanted and identified her real lover. The family came in shame and humiliation to ask for the child back. "Is that so!" the Zen Master said and returned the child to them.

 

[Moonbeam]

My answer to your final question is: there certainly does not seem to be a way out. The world is fucking flat.

I read somewhere that it is reported in the Apocrypha that Jesus said, "Did you but suffer you would not suffer." The answer may not be out there but within. There is no way out, but is there a prison?

 

[UNCjigga]

7 time DUI champion and the *ONLY* person in congress to vote against a human trafficking bill. Matt Gaetz, a real beacon of moral decency.

He's a walking embodiment of Florida Man... Only natural that he serve in the House.

 

[Zorba]

This while episode had shown me how weak the Constitution really is in the face of a major political party attempting to establish a dictatorship. I wouldn't be shocked at this point if the majority of the gop would vote to give Trump emergency dicator powers.

I'm also a huge supporter of the first amendment, but something needs to be done about the blatant propaganda and misinformation networks.

 

[zinfamous]

This while episode had shown me how weak the Constitution really is in the face of a major political party attempting to establish a dictatorship. I wouldn't be shocked at this point if the majority of the gop would vote to give Trump emergency dicator powers.

I'm also a huge supporter of the first amendment, but something needs to be done about the blatant propaganda and misinformation networks.

Careful of this guy with an open mic....and he does look a little like that Trey Gowdy toad, doesn't he?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

We are none of us guilty of anything and have all been forgiven.

“I can’t reveal the mystery to either saint or sinner; I can’t state at length what I’ve said curtly; I achieve an altered state that I can’t explain; I have a secret that I cannot share.”
― Omar Khayyám

 

[MomentsofSanity]

You can't make this shit up. Trump wants to release the partisan memo that attacks the DOJ and FBI with conclusions they arrived at without viewing any of the actual evidence ASAP. But he doesn't want to do it before the SOTU as he doesn't want to step on his, I shit you not, message of unity.