Release the Krak... err FISA Memo!

[IronWing]

If FISA courts are a specific sham, perhaps you would like to respond to what eski posted about their standards compared to regular courts?

Actually, I think FISA courts are repugnant to the Constitution, the rule of law, and to democratic governance. Secret courts with secret evidence and secret verdicts are the stuff of tyranny.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm not a Republican and sure I'm bitching about FISA courts which are a sham and the NSA which is 1984-esque. The system never should have been created, stuff like the Patriot Act never passed. But I'm not partisan and naive enough to say 0.03 isn't a complete farce because really high integrity of police officers before presenting. That's absurd and you all know it.

Can you please provide some substance to your argument? At the moment it's like claiming that the immigration system isn't good enough because x amount of people were allowed through and y amount of applications were rejected. It says nothing about the applications that were granted or rejected, so how on earth does it have any bearing on a substantive judgement of how well the system works? Maybe the figure y represents the number of applications filled in with blue ink rather than black, as opposed to some relevant factor to immigration?

 

[zinfamous]

Actually, I think FISA courts are repugnant to the Constitution, the rule of law, and to democratic governance. Secret courts with secret evidence and secret verdicts are the stuff of tyranny.

I would say that you aren't wrong, but I'm trying to figure out how their standards for authorizing warrants being tighter than the standards of other courts somehow characterizes them as having less standards? I mean, to have "a standard," there must be a reference point. This is how measurements are made: (you know this: the kilogram is defined by an actual, single object who's mass is exactly "1kg")

To declare that one's standards are lower than another, one must have a reference point. I think the standards of the field and how they conduct their authority are best weighed among themselves. I don't like claiming standards as "based on what I want them to be," as Casanova seems to want them to be.

 

[VRAMdemon]

"The top Leadership and Investigators of the FBI and the Justice Department have politicized the sacred investigative process in favor of Democrats and against Republicans - something which would have been unthinkable just a short time ago. Rank & File are great people!"

This might be the dumbest tweet of his yet. He's basically saying that his own hires have politicized the investigative process. Whether he meant it, whether he realizes that this is what he's saying, is a completely different matter.

Just so we're clear, Trump is acknowledging that even the Republicans that he appointed think that he is guilty...Lol!

 

[UglyCasanova]

So to be clear then you consider the entire federal court system to be a sham as their denial rate is .028%, lower than FISA's.

Probably, if it's 0.028% they obviously aren't doing their jobs now are they?

 

[umbrella39]

Double




Down...

 

[dphantom]

On what planet does a current Trump supporter pointing out that Nunes has always been a dishonest hack who is willing to say or do anything to please leadership validate that he's on to something? Wouldn't it do exactly the opposite?

I think we all know Nunes has nothing and the evidence is obvious to that effect. If Nunes was on to something he wouldn't be releasing a cherry picked report while suppressing attempts to rebut it. If your case is good you don't need to suppress dissenting views and you don't need to cherry pick your facts. Common sense, really.

Then release all of the documents if you think Nunes has selectively cherry picked the information. That way, you can then be vindicated if the entire set of data shows the opposite of what the House committee says has happened.

 

[fskimospy]

Probably, if it's 0.028% they obviously aren't doing their jobs now are they?

If you've reached the point that in order to defend your argument you're forced to declare the entire federal criminal court system to be a sham it might be time to rethink your argument.

 

[IronWing]

Probably, if it's 0.028% they obviously aren't doing their jobs now are they?

It means the courts laid out a standard that investigators know how to meet. I'm not saying anything about the appropriateness of the standard, only that it is well defined. If I tell you a burger costs a buck and you offer me 99 cents and I refuse to sell you a burger and if you offer me a buck or more, I will sell you the burger every time, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that one shouldn't offer me less than a buck to buy a burger.

 

[fskimospy]

Then release all of the documents if you think Nunes has selectively cherry picked the information. That way, you can then be vindicated if the entire set of data shows the opposite of what the House committee says has happened.

Sounds like you need to talk to Devin Nunes then as he's desperately trying to suppress a memo that indicates how he cherry picked the information. It's almost like he knows he's full of shit or something, haha.

 

[UglyCasanova]

If you've reached the point that in order to defend your argument you're forced to declare the entire federal criminal court system to be a sham it might be time to rethink your argument.

It is a sham. There is so much financial interest in prosecuting and convicting people it's insane. Criminal Justice reform is sorely needed. Whether it be the War on Drugs, the War on Black People, or whatever, the justice system has become a business. Thinking that 0.028% is just really good policing and having high standards is partisan lunacy and deep down you know it. But can't admit though, because that would go against whatever the hell you're arguing. Blinders.

 

[zinfamous]

Probably, if it's 0.028% they obviously aren't doing their jobs now are they?

Oh. ...you clearly don't understand the argument:

Rejection rate does not take into account warrant requests that were sent back for further review, then later approved. One thinks that experienced professionals kinda know how to request warrants in the first place, insuring the evidence is there to increase the efficiency of the process....but then I guess the other argument is that they simply aren't doing their jobs because you just want a different outcome that aligns with some feels.

 

[UNCjigga]

So once we start down this path, at what point do white supremacists and Aryan Brotherhood prison gang types start challenging guilty verdicts in court, on the basis that xxx Judge or DA or xx% of the jury are Democrats? I think we've proven on this forum that modern Democrats have an inherent bias against white supremacists.

 

[zinfamous]

It is a sham. There is so much financial interest in prosecuting and convicting people it's insane. Criminal Justice reform is sorely needed. Whether it be the War on Drugs, the War on Black People, or whatever, the justice system has become a business. Thinking that 0.028% is just really good policing and having high standards is partisan lunacy and deep down you know it. But can't admit though, because that would go against whatever the hell you're arguing. Blinders.

so you're fully engaged and won't escape the "nothing and no one is to be trusted because look at what they are saying about our president" argument.

gaslighting.

 

[zinfamous]

So once we start down this path, at what point do white supremacists and Aryan Brotherhood prison gang types start challenging guilty verdicts in court, on the basis that xxx Judge or DA or xx% of the jury are Democrats? I think we've proven on this forum that modern Democrats have an inherent bias against white supremacists.

LEOs and the justice system hold biases against the criminals that they investigate and prosecute. It's major news, yes, and we should clearly dismantle the entire system because this is simple bias that must be eradicated.

Sounds right.

 

[brandonbull]

Well you don't see this every day...

At least he didn't post under his alias/alter ego.

 

[zinfamous]

At least he didn't post under his alias/alter ego.

Carlos Danger?

 

[dphantom]

Sounds like you need to talk to Devin Nunes then as he's desperately trying to suppress a memo that indicates how he cherry picked the information. It's almost like he knows he's full of shit or something, haha.

Well I thought you were the one concerned. I am looking forward to seeing how bad the corruption might be but it appears you believe that to not be the case. So all I am saying is you should insist on the release of all documents so you can prove your case.

I am confident the report Nunes' committee prepared will accurately reflect the nature of the problem with the entire Trump "collusion" case.

If you're referring to the Schiff memo, to the best of my knowledge, Schiff wanted a vote on releasing his version but no one had seen it so no vote could be taken on an unseen memo. Once he writes it and allows members of Congress to review it, then I think a vote can be scheduled to release it or not.

 

[brandonbull]

The idea that the Clinton campaign commissioned the Steele dossier to discredit trump then didn't use it in the campaign because really the goal was to get the (very liberal) FBI to pry deeper in to Trumpworld is some top shelf delusion. The memo is reportedly all about Paige who was already of interest to the US government years prior to Trump ever becoming a candidate. If Page was further implicated by subsequent information (dossier) that would justify continued surveillance authorized by via FISA

Why did the dossier get commissioned then? Maybe to be used against Trump?

 

[HomerJS]

Why did the dossier get commissioned then? Maybe to be used against Trump?

Ask the conservative Washington Free Beacon since they initially funded the collection of data used for the dossier eventually taken over by the Dems.

 

[brandonbull]

So once we start down this path, at what point do white supremacists and Aryan Brotherhood prison gang types start challenging guilty verdicts in court, on the basis that xxx Judge or DA or xx% of the jury are Democrats? I think we've proven on this forum that modern Democrats have an inherent bias against white supremacists.

So it's not a problem for white supremacists to be police officers?

 

[fskimospy]

Well I thought you were the one concerned. I am looking forward to seeing how bad the corruption might be but it appears you believe that to not be the case. So all I am saying is you should insist on the release of all documents so you can prove your case.

I am confident the report Nunes' committee prepared will accurately reflect the nature of the problem with the entire Trump "collusion" case.

It's odd that you would come to a conclusion that is the opposite of basically every intelligence agency and professional that has weighed in on it. Why is that? Does tribal party identity really run that deep?

If you're referring to the Schiff memo, to the best of my knowledge, Schiff wanted a vote on releasing his version but no one had seen it so no vote could be taken on an unseen memo. Once he writes it and allows members of Congress to review it, then I think a vote can be scheduled to release it or not.

This is false. The memo already exists and had been seen by the committee voting on it and in a party line vote Republicans chose to suppress it. Why do you think that is? (we both know why that is)

 

[UNCjigga]

Well I thought you were the one concerned. I am looking forward to seeing how bad the corruption might be but it appears you believe that to not be the case. So all I am saying is you should insist on the release of all documents so you can prove your case.

I am confident the report Nunes' committee prepared will accurately reflect the nature of the problem with the entire Trump "collusion" case.

If you're referring to the Schiff memo, to the best of my knowledge, Schiff wanted a vote on releasing his version but no one had seen it so no vote could be taken on an unseen memo. Once he writes it and allows members of Congress to review it, then I think a vote can be scheduled to release it or not.

The minority memo is already written (10 pages) and the Intel committee voted to release it to the house but not to the White House. There is no requirement for a House review prior to WH review...it's a delay tactic so Republicans can own the narrative in the news cycle, pure and simple.

 

[brandonbull]

Ask the conservative Washington Free Beacon since they initially funded the collection of data used for the dossier eventually taken over by the Dems.

When did Steele start working again? Back to my point about the purpose of the dossier.

 

[dphantom]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-intel-memo-released-what-it-says/article/2647937