Release the Krak... err FISA Memo!

[interchange]

Can anyone come up with a single case where probable cause was contested much less found to not be met related to surveillance after the issuance of a FISA warrant? There are certainly violations related to warrantless searches and improper handling of data collected from FISA surveillance, but I can't find anything suggesting that once, ever, it was found that a FISA court issued a warrant without probable cause.

 

[UNCjigga]

So it's not a problem for white supremacists to be police officers?

Huh? You lost me there buddy.

 

[IronWing]

Can anyone come up with a single case where probable cause was contested much less found to not be met related to surveillance after the issuance of a FISA warrant? There are certainly violations related to warrantless searches and improper handling of data collected from FISA surveillance, but I can't find anything suggesting that once, ever, it was found that a FISA court issued a warrant without probable cause.

How would we know? Secret court, secret evidence.

 

[fskimospy]

It is a sham. There is so much financial interest in prosecuting and convicting people it's insane. Criminal Justice reform is sorely needed. Whether it be the War on Drugs, the War on Black People, or whatever, the justice system has become a business. Thinking that 0.028% is just really good policing and having high standards is partisan lunacy and deep down you know it. But can't admit though, because that would go against whatever the hell you're arguing. Blinders.

Blinders indeed, you're desperately searching for any reason to keep believing what you want to believe. This is emotion overriding logic.

You started out saying the FISA court was a sham due to its high approval rate. When you found out its approval rate was in line with the other courts instead of reconsidering your position you then decided the entire court system was a sham too. Just admit it, you didn't know FISA's approval rate was normal. That indicates FISA is operating in a similar fashion to the rest of the US court system. I know this undercuts your argument, but maybe that's a good reason to change your argument.

The real sham here is obvious, it's Nunes working for Trump to try and discredit federal law enforcement because Trump is panicking about the investigation. This is an assault on our country and you should join all of us in working to make sure these people are removed from office as soon as humanly possible.

 

[dphantom]

It's odd that you would come to a conclusion that is the opposite of basically every intelligence agency and professional that has weighed in on it. Why is that? Does tribal party identity really run that deep?



This is false. The memo already exists and had been seen by the committee voting on it and in a party line vote Republicans chose to suppress it. Why do you think that is? (we both know why that is)

Below is the last I knew of the so-called Schiff memo. If you have a more current link that shows the memo has been seen by the House, then certainly provide the reference.

https://zeldin.house.gov/media-cent...house-intel-cmte-vote-release-fisa-abuse-memo

Lee Zeldin is a Republican member of the House Intelligence Committee. He voted to release the Nunes memo and then took to the floor of the House in response to Schiff last night. He also issued the following written statement that is posted here:

In the interest of transparency, the American people must have access to this [four-page Nunes] FISA abuse memo immediately, and I applaud my colleagues on the House Intel committee for their commitment to shedding light on the gross FISA abuse detailed in this memo. Releasing this classified information will not compromise good sources and methods. It will, however, reveal the feds’ reliance on bad sources and methods. President Trump should immediately sign off on the release of this memo to the American public.

With regards to the House Democrats’ call for a vote to publicly release immediately an alleged new memo by Rep. Adam Schiff, it is crucial to note that the House Democrats did not offer the majority members of the Committee any opportunity whatsoever to review this memo prior to tonight’s vote for its immediate declassification and release. I, for one, (1) haven’t seen the Schiff memo; (2) have no idea what it says; (3) am not aware of it being made available to anyone in the House before now; and ([4]) can’t confirm it even actually exists yet. The opposite is true for the FISA abuse memo that was made available to House members the week before last.

 

[K1052]

House Republicans gave early memo access to Fox News and Washington Examiner....way to make this all look above board dudes.

 

[interchange]

How would we know? Secret court, secret evidence.

FISA violations have been made public. It is not necessary to report the details of a case to publicize such a violation.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

House Republicans gave early memo access to Fox News and Washington Examiner....way to make this all look above board dudes.

Link?

 

[fskimospy]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-intel-memo-released-what-it-says/article/2647937

If that article is accurate then Nunes just shot himself in the dick.

It's saying that the Steele dossier was supported by other evidence in the warrant application and that the FISA court renewed surveillance three times, meaning wiretaps on Page were yielding valuable intelligence on foreign intelligence activities and it was agencies run by Trump's own appointees requesting FISA renewals.

Nunes undermined our law enforcement agencies and destroyed HCI's credibility for this? What a disaster.

 

[K1052]

Why did the dossier get commissioned then? Maybe to be used against Trump?

For the purposes of this it's really irrelevant since the entire memo is about Carter Paige who was on intel radar due to his interactions with Russian agents for years prior to Trump ever becoming a candidate.

 

[HomerJS]

So it's not a problem for white supremacists to be police officers?

Its a problem for white supremacists to be human beings.

 

[vi edit]

Toothpaste theory is in full effect...squeeze out a giant load of shit scented toothpaste from the tube and let somebody else try and put it back in.

 

[UNCjigga]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/house-intel-memo-released-what-it-says/article/2647937

So the memo is authorized for release, and right wing sites already have the key talking points ready to go before the official text is out. Nope, not a smear campaign...

 

[HomerJS]

When did Steele start working again? Back to my point about the purpose of the dossier.

Who paid for the data?? Steele had retired from being an agent and was doing a paid job. Same as a lot of people so what's the point??

 

[interchange]

It's really telling that a memo was made available only to partisan sources initially who are now able to write a narrative surrounding it without even posting the memo itself.

As for what the Examiner says, if it can be taken at face value, it does conflict with what I had previously thought about the situation. I am concerned about knowledge of the political connection to the source of information being withheld from the court. It's a damn shame, too, because I think it would be unlikely to change the burden of probable cause being met. Perhaps the omission was because the political funding was not material. If information from the Steele dossier was independently confirmed, it doesn't matter where the lead came from so long as the lead was legal.

 

[UNCjigga]

The part about all four FISA warrants on Page being solely based on the Steele Dossier (and McCabe confirming this)...something about that seems off.

As for DoJ and FBI hiding Steele's bias from House...was that Obama's Justice or Trump's Justice???

 

[K1052]

Perhaps the omission was because the political funding was not material. If information from the Steele dossier was independently confirmed, it doesn't matter where the lead came from so long as the lead was legal.

This is the crux of this whole thing. Where the information came from really doesn't matter. If the information can be corroborated or not does since US citizens are implicated in a host of illegal shit plus the truckloads of foreign intelligence implications. The FBI's job is to find out and if in the course of that they discover other unseemly stuff to deal with that too.

 

[vi edit]

For the purposes of this it's really irrelevant since the entire memo is about Carter Paige who was on intel radar due to his interactions with Russian agents for years prior to Trump ever becoming a candidate.

Yeah this is the thing that amazes me. Page has been under FBI suspicion since 2013 or so. I'm ready for some of these agencies to just shed the veil of impartiality and slap their dicks on the table and go for Trump and the GOP's throat. Lay out the facts and burn this thing down.

 

[K1052]

The part about all four FISA warrants on Page being solely based on the Steele Dossier (and McCabe confirming this)...something about that seems off.

As for DoJ and FBI hiding Steele's bias from House...was that Obama's Justice or Trump's Justice???

The excerpt says "essential part" which means, to me, there was more evidence provided to the FISA court.

 

[UNCjigga]

Oh, John McCain is still alive btw, just tweeted about the memo's release:

"The latest attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests - no party's, no President's, only Putin's.

 

[woolfe9998]

It's really telling that a memo was made available only to partisan sources initially who are now able to write a narrative surrounding it without even posting the memo itself.

As for what the Examiner says, if it can be taken at face value, it does conflict with what I had previously thought about the situation. I am concerned about knowledge of the political connection to the source of information being withheld from the court. It's a damn shame, too, because I think it would be unlikely to change the burden of probable cause being met. Perhaps the omission was because the political funding was not material. If information from the Steele dossier was independently confirmed, it doesn't matter where the lead came from so long as the lead was legal.

What political bias? The fact that Steele said he was passionately opposed to Trump becoming POTUS after he had spent months investigating Trump? You relealize his "bias" may well have been a product of what he discovered during his investigation, right? I mean, read the dossier. If this is the information his sources were providing him, I'd be shocked if he wasn't vehemently opposed to Trump becoming POTUS.

 

[deathBOB]

Oh, John McCain is still alive btw, just tweeted about the memo's release:

"The latest attacks on the FBI and Department of Justice serve no American interests - no party's, no President's, only Putin's.

Save us with your “grave concerns” John McCain!

 

[fskimospy]

Also can anyone take a step back and realize how insane it is that the entire memo is about how the FBI was supposedly unfair to Carter Page, someone who wasn't even a part of the Trump campaign when the FISA warrant was issued.

 

[UNCjigga]

F**king WaPo...memo link is down!

Liberal media has failed me!

edit: Nevermind, it's back up--I cannot confirm if it's paywalled so ymmv:
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/documents/national/read-the-gop-memo/2746/

edit 2: Second link to pdf, should be open to everyone:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4365340/Read-the-GOP-memo.pdf

 

[fskimospy]

What political bias? The fact that Steele said he was passionately opposed to Trump becoming POTUS after he had spent months investigating Trump? You relealize his "bias" may well have been a product of what he discovered during his investigation, right? I mean, read the dossier. If this is the information his sources were providing him, I'd be shocked if he wasn't vehemently opposed to Trump becoming POTUS.

It is insane that you even needed to say this. Conservatives seem to be trying to redefine bias in a way that only people who support Trump are allowed to judge him.