Red light camera shows driver not at fault for running over mom/child

[1sikbITCH]

At the time the light changed, the pedestrian was in the middle of the intersection. There was no "curb or other place of safety" to provide a safe place for the pedestrian. A previous poster mentioned that google maps shows a very thin median.

We do not see enough at the start of the video to know if the pedestrian was "darting across" the whole intersection or was walking across, noticed the signal change, and started running in the expectation that traffic would wait for her.

Vehicles must yield to pedestrians.

There is no reason the driver should not have seen the pedestrians. The vehicle was not moving that fast. It is important for people to use their peripheral vision and it is clear the driver was not paying attention.


Those of you blaming the pedestrian seem not to have much experience with driving.

It takes very little time to shift a foot from the gas pedal to the brake. The driver drove completely over the stroller and child with no braking action and kept going.

There have been several times in my own experience where a vehicle has continued across the intersection after the light turns red. Those times I have been in the first car with the light turning from red to green, I have always stopped in time since my car had little momentum and I looked both ways before acceleration. I never cross an intersection if there is a large vehicle blocking my view. If a large vehicle blocks my view to my left, and that vehicle slows down or stops, then so do I. This instinctive action has saved me from a handful of accidents. It is not that difficult of a concept to ensure the path is clear and cross-traffic has stopped before starting to accelerate.

The driver of that SUV did not ensure the path was clear before accelerating. After impact, the driver did not slow down either.

The pedestrian should not have been in the road at that time. The missing video at the beginning has the answers we need for proper judgment of the situation. At the very least; the driver was inattentive and did not yield.

You can try to criticize everyone on the board's driving skills in a weak attempt at proving your point but the visual evidence is indisputable.

Cars were already into the intersection before the pedestrians even cleared the white truck. They had an obligation to go back 2 steps to the median and wait out the light. I agree it seems like the SUV should have seen them and is marginally at fault. However, the fault begins with the pedestrians. They saw the cars were moving and they still ran. That woman needs to take some personal responsibility for endangering her child and stop trying to cash in on her own stupidity.

 

[Humpy]

I'm usually a pretty compassionate person but holy crap, that lady pushed her kid as fast as she could into moving traffic!

Rather than believing a person could be so incomprehensibly stupid, this looks like some kind of insurance fraud or, as others have said, suicide or attempted murder. Now that poor kid is terrified that her mommy is going to try to kill her again.

I often see people standing at crosswalks with baby carriages obliviously pushed right up to the curb, inches from big, unpredictable machines whizzing by. People are idiots.

 

[M0RPH]

The lady got stuck out in the middle of a large, busy intersection with no median. She panicked and tried to run across. No question she did something stupid, but it happens. Have you guys really not seen this before? I've seen this sort of thing many times in my life, and always drivers are aware enough to stop and let the person get across.

 

[Anonemous]

I wonder why you guys are wasting your time arguing, the police absolved the suv driver. The lady will sue. Driver's insurance will pay the dumbass.

 

[Joseph F]

Fuck that. The mother and kid should be deported.

:thumbsup:

 

[Patranus]

Moral of the story?
The stop hand actually means stop.

Its not like the mother didn't know the light was about to change before she entered the crosswalk.

 

[Wreckem]

Doesn't anyone walk across intersections anymore to know how short the walk signal can be? There are times when I am barely able to walk across an intersection before the light changes and I walk fast. Pedestrians are often still crossing a street when the light changes. Especially in urban areas.

Personally, I would time these lights to ensure sufficient time is allowed for pedestrians to cross the intersection. Especially, for a woman with a stroller.


Here are the facts.

• The author of the article is not qualified to state the driver is not at fault for the accident.
• The pedestrians were "lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time the signal is exhibited".
  Reference: Arizona State Legislature - 28-645. Traffic control signal legend
  
• The pedestrians panicked, were confused, and attempted to quickly cross the intersection once it was clear the traffic signal was changing.
  
• The SUV driver was stopped at a red light.
  
• The SUV driver did not ensure the intersection was clear prior to acceleration. (Lack of attention was displayed.)
  
• The SUV driver was accelerating during the accident. (Negligence is displayed.)
  
• The SUV driver did not stop the vehicle once contact was made by continuing to drive over the stroller containing a child. (Willful negligence is now displayed.)
  
• The SUV driver failed to "exercise due care".
  The SUV driver did not:
  1. "Exercise due care to avoid colliding with any pedestrian on any roadway."
  2. "Give warning by sounding the horn when necessary."
  3. "Exercise proper precaution on observing a child or a confused or incapacitated person on a roadway."
  Reference: Arizona State Legislature - 28-794. Drivers to exercise due care

Conclusion
From these facts it is clear the SUV driver was inattentive and willfully negligent.

Its also clear that, the mother was just as much at fault. It should be a 50/50 finding of fault and since Arizona is a proportionate liability state, she won't get much, more so since there weren't any real injuries.

 

[Redfraggle]

Reminds me of an incident that happened a few weeks ago. Two female in their mid-20's crossed a red light intersection while fiddling or texting on their cell phone. Nothing wrong with that picture except the oncoming traffic light has been green for a good 10 seconds already. So they didn't pay attention and walked right into oncoming traffic. They looked shocked and appalled when a few cars came to a screeching halt in front of them. Took them a few seconds before they realize THEY are the dumb@ss and proceed to run across the rest of the way.

I had a girl do this to me at night while I was turning left. She was very surprised when I almost hit her because A. I couldn't see her crossing when she shouldn't in the dark at an intersection that rarely has pedestrians and B. she was too busy playing her with fucking phone to pay attention.

I really don't know what's wrong with people. How can you be so stupid as to assume it won't matter if you don't look? That only works for Bugs Bunny.

 

[bfdd]

Was the camper in the left turn lane? If so that's probably why it didn't move for everyone questioning why. Looks like a complete accident with the pedestrian at fault. To the guy who brought up how fast those Bligh's change, so what? I walk all over the place most have a signal AND timer now, those that don't clearly give you enough time if you entered the crosswalk before the walk signal turned to the halt. They give like ten seconds of ok to walk and around twenty afterthat before the light change.

Also I too am stumped as to why a 4 year old wasbin a stroller. Wtf is that shoit.

 

[Kadarin]

That woman needs to take some personal responsibility for endangering her child and stop trying to cash in on her own stupidity.

I would pay to hear a judge tell her that.

 

[DominionSeraph]

Read the law:

Lawfully.

I'm not required to yield if you run out in front of me well after the green, and well after I have started moving, as this woman did.

Reading comprehension fail. It specifies that it's referring to when facing a green.
Since the traffic is only just starting to move, it's blatantly obvious that she didn't start crossing on the red (her way). She did not make it across two lanes of traffic in a half second.

The pedestrians clearly enter the crosswalk after the green light.

Is spidey's stupidity contagious?
THIS IS NOT A ONE-WAY ROAD. NEITHER DID THIS OCCUR IN A COUNTRY WHERE YOU DRIVE ON THE LEFT. THERE ARE OPPOSING LANES OF TRAFFIC ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CAMPER. WHEN THE LIGHT TURNS GREEN, THOSE LANES FILL WITH CARS. IT IS NOT MAGICAL-GUMDROP-HAPPY-PEDESTRIAN-SAFETY-LAND. THERE IS ROAD THERE, AND THE CROSSWALK WHICH BRIDGES THE ROAD EXISTS THERE AS WELL.
They entered the crosswalk when they entered the roadway. That is NOT right on the other side of the camper.

In otherwords, there are situations where that law does NOT apply, and guess what one of them listed is.

A. Except as provided in section 28-793, subsection B, if traffic control signals are not in place or are not in operation, the driver of a vehicle shall yield the right-of-way, slowing down or stopping if need be in order to yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is on the half of the roadway on which the vehicle is traveling or when the pedestrian is approaching so closely from the opposite half of the roadway as to be in danger. A pedestrian shall not suddenly leave any curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.

The reading comprehension fail is strong in this thread.

if traffic control signals are not in place or are not in operation,

The traffic control signals were in place and were in operation.

 

[Sea Moose]

I like how the mom checks the stroller before the kid.

Gotta make sure the smokes are ok

 

[LTC8K6]

Reading comprehension fail. It specifies that it's referring to when facing a green.
Since the traffic is only just starting to move, it's blatantly obvious that she didn't start crossing on the red (her way). She did not make it across two lanes of traffic in a half second.



Is spidey's stupidity contagious?
THIS IS NOT A ONE-WAY ROAD. NEITHER DID THIS OCCUR IN A COUNTRY WHERE YOU DRIVE ON THE LEFT. THERE ARE OPPOSING LANES OF TRAFFIC ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CAMPER. WHEN THE LIGHT TURNS GREEN, THOSE LANES FILL WITH CARS. IT IS NOT MAGICAL-GUMDROP-HAPPY-PEDESTRIAN-SAFETY-LAND. THERE IS ROAD THERE, AND THE CROSSWALK WHICH BRIDGES THE ROAD EXISTS THERE AS WELL.
They entered the crosswalk when they entered the roadway. That is NOT right on the other side of the camper.




The reading comprehension fail is strong in this thread.


The traffic control signals were in place and were in operation.

Well, I read that there was a median, albeit a small one.

If there isn't a median, what took them so long to get just halfway across?

 

[GTaudiophile]

Mom needs to be tried with attempted murder and deported if not a citizen. We have enough idiots here as it is.

Quoted.

 

[LTC8K6]

There is in fact a substantial median there where one can wait safely.

 

[LTC8K6]

Regina Aldan, who only speaks Spanish, says she was attempting to cross the intersection when her light changed from green to red. Aldan was halfway across the street, but instead of waiting at the median she began to run as cars took off on the green light.

Ooops!

A pedestrian shall not suddenly leave any curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle that is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.

 

[bignateyk]

Reminds me of an incident that happened a few weeks ago. Two female in their mid-20's crossed a red light intersection while fiddling or texting on their cell phone. Nothing wrong with that picture except the oncoming traffic light has been green for a good 10 seconds already. So they didn't pay attention and walked right into oncoming traffic. They looked shocked and appalled when a few cars came to a screeching halt in front of them. Took them a few seconds before they realize THEY are the dumb@ss and proceed to run across the rest of the way.

Heh.. I was on the bus the other day and there was a guy sitting there texting or surfing or something on his smartphone. He pulled the chord to request a stop. A minute or two later the bus comes to a stop and noone gets off, so the bus driver continues on his route.

About a minute later the guy who requested the stop starts yelling and telling the bus driver that he forgot to stop. Fuckin idiot was so absorbed in his phone he didn't even realize the bus had stopped as requested. The bus driver refused to let him off until the next scheduled stop like 4 miles away .

 

[sdifox]

Where the hell would you get the idea that you don't have to yield to pedestrians in a crosswalk as long as your car is moving? Do you know what "yield" means?

That his line of sight was blocked and so he couldn't yield doesn't mean that, properly, he should not have run them over.

Where the hell did you get the idea that pedestrians can just cross the street whenever and whereever they want with total disregard to traffic lights?


I have to say I am glad the kid didn't get killed. But the mother should be charged with criminal negligence.

 

[sdifox]

Am I the only one questioning why a four year old is in a stroller?

yes you are.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

Where the hell did you get the idea that pedestrians can just cross the street whenever and whereever they want with total disregard to traffic lights?

I don't understand people who think that way. I mean even if it were true that pedestrians always had right of way no matter what, why the hell would anyone want to risk their life on depending on a driver to stop and assuming every driver is paying attention 100% of the time? That's just fucking stupid. People who think that way need to be run over.

 

[ProfJohn]

Someone should teach that when crossing the street you always make eye contact with people sitting in cars so you know that they are aware of your presence. Only a fool runs out in front of cars without paying attention to what they are doing.

 

[Ryland]

Reminds me of an incident that happened a few weeks ago. Two female in their mid-20's crossed a red light intersection while fiddling or texting on their cell phone. Nothing wrong with that picture except the oncoming traffic light has been green for a good 10 seconds already. So they didn't pay attention and walked right into oncoming traffic. They looked shocked and appalled when a few cars came to a screeching halt in front of them. Took them a few seconds before they realize THEY are the dumb@ss and proceed to run across the rest of the way.

A similar thing happend about a year ago. A high school student stepped into the path of a schoolbus because she wasnt paying any attention to where she was walking. She received a Darwin award for her actions.

 

[xanis]

1) The mother is a complete idiot. The red hand means "stop" not "go", dumbass. Stop trying to cash in and just be grateful that your stupidity didn't get your child killed.

2) We can argue that the SUV driver is at fault because he was distracted and didn't stop, but let's face it: We've all been distracted while driving once or twice. Have you ever zoned out briefly at a red light only to be snapped back to reality by honking when the light turns green? It's happened to me, and I've seen it happen to other drivers.

My opinion is this: I can't really fault the driver here. Legally (and morally IMO) he didn't do anything wrong. Whether or not he feels guilty is between himself and his god. The woman, on the other hand, is a negligent dipshit and her child should be taken by CPS before more damage is done.

 

[Kev]

i see this all the time in philly! ghetto people thinking they own the street, both drivers and pedestrians.

I was going to say the same thing. If you don't pay constant attention to people jaywalking or just being complete idiots in general, you WILL run someone over.

 

[alkemyst]

It's sad those defending this lady and those oblivious that since the white trailer was stopped and the SUV started from behind it, he had no visual indicator until too late that this lady was running across the crosswalk. If he did stop short at the crosswalk due to having Super-Spider-Sense then he risked being rear-ended. Traffic was already in the middle of the intersection when he hit these people.

This is how so many criminals get off, all the little bleeding hearts paint the idiot into a martyr.