Ray Tracing’s A Game Changer ,Call of Duty: Modern Warfare , and RTX review for "Control" ,Minecraft NEW Ray Tracing RTX Mode Hands-On And Tested

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Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
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Ray tracing is 5 years off for you, because your waiting for AMD to perfect it for under $200.
Meanwhile there are thousands and thousands of people that bought ,2070,2080,2080ti, 2070S,2080S and the soon to be released 2080ti S cards that are seeing it and playing games with it right now.
The truth is right in front of you, but for some reason you keep closing your eyes.
There will not be RTX 2080 Ti Super, GPU.
 
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amenx

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2004
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I guess the issue is not with RT's potentials, but rather with RTX cards questionable marketing. Marketing that focuses more on how good RT looks while ignoring performance. But its a damn if you do, damn if you dont proposition. I dont think the marketing could be toned down for it, it needs to be aggressively pushed from a business standpoint. Of course, reviewers with benchmarks will put everything in perspective and no one will be the less wiser. Yes, RT is the Holy Grail of graphics, yes, HW that can do it NEEDS to exist before game studios would consider RT, yes, there is an early adopters tax.

Big question is... would RT development in games have been pushed back a few more years if not for Nvidias RTX cards? I think so. 5 years from now, I wonder what the arguments will be on RT and the role Nvidias RTX cards played in reaching that point.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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I'm curious, what's the one game where ray tracing is showing its full potential? Q2RTX? Metro? Stay in the light?

Legit not sure which one people mean.

Marketing and RTX, how is that different than anything else ever, really? So the last feature that had a major impact across the board that I can think of was AA back in 2000. Running 4x AA back then was a 75% performance hit, and nowhere was that ever mentioned in the marketing. I'm not defending it, I'm asking how is it any different?
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
2,248
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Just because they are making a Telsa version also ,does not mean there wont be a 2080ti super.

They are making a Tesla version. No also required. It's possible they might make a 2080Ti Super sometime in the future, but the rumored one is a Tesla.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,625
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They are making a Tesla version. No also required. It's possible they might make a 2080Ti Super sometime in the future, but the rumored one is a Tesla.
They won't do RTX 2080 Ti Super, because they would have to sell full die, fully enabled.

Reminds you of anything: "cough" Titan RTX "Cough".

That is what RTX 2080 Ti Super is.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
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They won't do RTX 2080 Ti Super, because they would have to sell full die, fully enabled.

Reminds you of anything: "cough" Titan RTX "Cough".

That is what RTX 2080 Ti Super is.
How do you know what "they" will do?
Are you guessing? Do you have a link?
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,625
4,359
136
How do you know what "they" will do?
Are you guessing? Do you have a link?
Just look at what they have done with RTX 2080 Super, look at the core config in RTX 2080 Ti, and THINK.

The only core config possible for 2080 Ti Super is Full die. And that won't happen, because that would eat Titan RTX sales.

Use BASIC logic for Nvidia hardware. They are marketing driven company. How hard is it to see this?
 

Tup3x

Senior member
Dec 31, 2016
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Ray tracing is definitely the future and it opens up some fantastic gameplay opportunities too. One you go full on ray tracing it makes graphics programmers life easier too. It's still probably going to take two generations before it's completely viable but it's nice that we got the first iteration out already. Looking forward to seeing big three compete in ray tracing.
 
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Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,505
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Ray tracing is definitely the future and it opens up some fantastic gameplay opportunities too. One you go full on ray tracing it makes graphics programmers life easier too. It's still probably going to take two generations before it's completely viable but it's nice that we got the first iteration out already. Looking forward to seeing big three compete in ray tracing.

If the rumors of the next gen consoles supporting ray tracing are true, wouldn't that be the big 3 + 2 in the end? I guess it will be interesting to see the outcome in the end.

I still view Voodoo as the only game changer to date. Visual uplift while also providing a staggering performance increase. I guess for those who aren't old enough to have experienced it, it's a meh moment in history. Sure looking back at it and comparing the graphics to today's it looks pretty weak, but for it's time it was ground shaking.
 

soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Completely and utterly useless?
Not completely worthless, but more is it worth a premium when the main benefit is to game developers - it potentially eases their load considerably if all lighting is dynamically produced at runtime using RT, both in time to produce these optimisation assets and the space they take up (net bandwidth per download being something that concerns them just as much as Netflix does about video I'm guessing).

Even without RT, the sheer amount of research into raster based game engines has made incredible visuals possible with some pre computation effort during the dev of a game coupled with judicious optimisation.

Even with Turing, RT with 1-2 bounces is not viable in real time without denoising the monte carlo variance (RT noise), and multiple bounces is just completely non viable for gaming or real time previews for visualisation uses.

Foveated rendering for VR will dramatically reduce the necessary load for RT, but there isn't a single consumer headset using eye tracking for FR on the market yet, I haven't even seen a demo of FR being used in a gaming situation thus far.
 

soresu

Platinum Member
Dec 19, 2014
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Yes, RT is the Holy Grail of graphics
RT + voxels would be my take of the gfx holy grail.

Not the minecraft voxels mind you, more what the original id Tech 6 was meant to be - makes me wonder if Carmack is still working on a voxel solution today with a new engine.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
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Ray tracing is definitely the future and it opens up some fantastic gameplay opportunities too. One you go full on ray tracing it makes graphics programmers life easier too. It's still probably going to take two generations before it's completely viable but it's nice that we got the first iteration out already. Looking forward to seeing big three compete in ray tracing.
I just hope we don't get a fractured environment like with GSync vs Freesync-- oh who am I kidding.
 

Kippa

Senior member
Dec 12, 2011
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Personally I think one of the problems with Nvidia isn't RTX. It might be due to the fact that they thought they might be on a 7nm node for 2080ti but when the brought it out on the 14nm node they had seriously less real estate on the die for RTX cores. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia's first gaming 7nm card is loaded with a hell of a lot more RTX cores than the 2080ti.
 

Elfear

Diamond Member
May 30, 2004
7,091
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Outside of the premium tax, why is anyone even against DXR? You don't have to buy into it, but you expel large amounts of energy to bash it. Have you seen it? It's gorgeous. My biggest complaint thus far is I only have two games to use it. This sucks. I expected NV to money hat galore and I'd have at least a dozen titles by now. Instead I'm stuck as I was during the DX12 hype, waiting.


We're hating technology solely for who it's tied to. Come on. Stop being so petty. Hate the companies, kudos, but why shoot yourself in the foot if RT actually catches on sooner rather than later?

Like others have stated, I don't think anyone is poopooing RT or DXR in general. I think most of the disappointment came from the massive jump in price for a feature that is only used in a small handful of games currently and that at settings that are rather unimpressive.

If Nvidia had launched RTX on cards costing the same as their predecessors, I don't think people would have made such a stink about the feature. That and the fact that gamers can't help but think what could have been if Nvidia had used the RTX/Tensor transistor budget for better rasterization performance which would have helped in all games.

I get that someone has to start the foray into implementing RT and in some ways Nvidia should be applauded for that initiative. But it's hard to be patient with subpar performance when you have to shell out so much money for it. ;)

In the majority of games tested five cards were clearing 60Hz at 4k. The body of your text implies that 4k was hyped for the high end and then abandoned, most reasonable people would say 4k has been largely solved, particularly when looking at RTX Titan, 2080Ti and Titan V. Yes, you can find edge cases where that isn't true, but most people would call 98% of games at 4k 60Hz or better a very solid experience.

So you feel 4k has been "solved" by a $2,500, $1,300, and $3,000 video cards respectively? Were even those monster cards maintaining a 60fps minimum? What about the high-refresh gamers which are becoming more and more prevalent?

I don't think 4k has been solved, even by cards that are only sold to a miniscule fraction of gamers.
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Why do people just flat out lie about the price of the 2080Ti?

https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-rtx-2080-ti-ventus-gp/p/N82E16814137451

The MSRP on the founders edition is $1200, but we see this $1300-$1500 number thrown around. It's over a thousand, isn't that expensive enough without showing yourself to be dishonest? Why sacrifice your credibility when it's already absurdly expensive being honest?

Alright so on to the point. An absurdly small amount of people have 4k monitors. An absurdly small amount of people have graphics cards that can handle that resolution in the overwhelming majority of games. Funny how that works.

If we play a game where I list ten games that run at sixty Hz running 4k for every one that doesn't using a 2080, not Ti or even super, I'd run out of games that don't long before I run out of titles that do.

Also, I said largely solved, words matter. If there was a card that handled every game with a 120 Hz minimum I'd say completely solved. It's an important distinction. The overwhelming majority running at over 60 Hz is largely solved.
 
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amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
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Why do people just flat out lie about the price of the 2080Ti?

https://www.newegg.com/msi-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-rtx-2080-ti-ventus-gp/p/N82E16814137451

The MSRP on the founders edition is $1200, but we see this $1300-$1500 number thrown around. It's over a thousand, isn't that expensive enough without showing yourself to be dishonest? Why sacrifice your credibility when it's already absurdly expensive being honest?

Alright so on to the point. An absurdly small amount of people have 4k monitors. An absurdly small amount of people have graphics cards that can handle that resolution in the overwhelming majority of games. Funny how that works.

If we play a game where I list ten games that run at sixty Hz running 4k for every one that doesn't using a 2080, not Ti or even super, I'd run out of games that don't long before I run out of titles that do.

Also, I said largely solved, words matter. If there was a card that handled every game with a 120 Hz minimum I'd say completely solved. It's an important distinction. The overwhelming majority running at over 60 Hz is largely solved.

First, re: 2080 Ti prices, few people keep track of price changes. It was $1300 back in the beginning of May, $1200 in mid to late May, $1150 in June, and now $1080.

Second, re: Titan RTX prices and Titan V prices, why didn't you correct him on those? He said Titan RTX was $2500, but that one's out of stock, and it's actually $2850 on Newegg, and the Titan V isn't $3000, it's $3500 on Amazon.

I doubt he was being dishonest, he was probably remembering what the prices had been when it first came out.

But you sound dishonest when you only point out when he estimated prices too high, and not too low, when clearly you're making a point to look at the cards' current prices.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
That would be very dishonest, you are correct, I apologize for not calling all price inaccuracies out.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia...ic8FSQ4N0qUZNbWpvKEaAvliEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

That's $2499.99, not $2500.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/titan/titan-v/

That's $2999, not $3000...

I did what you asked, I called him out over a penny and a dollar real world street prices today. I could have been stupidly dishonest and dug up some gouged prices, but I don't like screaming I'm not to be trusted in an honest conversation.

For the record, those were top results when I googled it.
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
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That would be very dishonest, you are correct, I apologize for not calling all price inaccuracies out.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia...ic8FSQ4N0qUZNbWpvKEaAvliEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

That's $2499.99, not $2500.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/titan/titan-v/

That's $2999, not $3000...

I did what you asked, I called him out over a penny and a dollar real world street prices today. I could have been stupidly dishonest and dug up some gouged prices, but I don't like screaming I'm not to be trusted in an honest conversation.

For the record, those were top results when I googled it.
Boy, I need to learn how to shop for prices. I guess browsing Newegg, PCPartPicker, MicroCenter, and Amazon isn't enough these days. Cheers to you and apologies for the inappropriate call-out on that second point!

Now, to the first point, why are you so up in arms about him using an old price for the 2080 Ti? Why assume he's being dishonest, rather than just misinformed? I actually looked various places for prices and found elevated prices for the Titan RTX and Titan V... despite an honest attempt.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Quote.
"
Northlight Storytelling Engine has been updated specifically with DXR in mind and it shows in this game. Not only does Control have support for RTX functions it’s one of the first games to put more than one feature along with DLSS to the task. Remedy and NVIDIA have several on the move here that all meet up to have a very worthwhile improvement on the game.

Opaque Reflections, Transparent Reflections, Contact Shadows, and Indirect Diffuse all combine in a way that makes the world come to life and look more like a movie than what a video game traditionally looks like. And thanks to the almost grainy look of the game we’re able to implement the use of NVIDIA’s DLSS and the image stays intact without much scrutiny while bringing the performance back up to a very smooth level across the board"
https://wccftech.com/control-pc-performance-explored-all-in-on-rtx/3/

Merged into existing Nvidia thread.
Please use this thread to cover all
games that use RTX features, and do
not start individual threads.


AT Mod Usandthem
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
Maybe it is misinformation, but I haven't seen the 2080Ti quoted at the actual street price for a while now. If it's $50 off whatever, or even if people kept quoting the FE MSRP of $1200, but seeing it called hundreds more than it actually is over and over is just tiring. It's over a thousand dollars, it's absurdly expensive, let's at least be accurate :)
 

amrnuke

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2019
1,181
1,772
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Maybe it is misinformation, but I haven't seen the 2080Ti quoted at the actual street price for a while now. If it's $50 off whatever, or even if people kept quoting the FE MSRP of $1200, but seeing it called hundreds more than it actually is over and over is just tiring. It's over a thousand dollars, it's absurdly expensive, let's at least be accurate :)
I just don't think people are interested in it, so no one is really looking up the current price. For the exact reason you mention - it's ridiculous.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
Quote.
"
Northlight Storytelling Engine has been updated specifically with DXR in mind and it shows in this game. Not only does Control have support for RTX functions it’s one of the first games to put more than one feature along with DLSS to the task. Remedy and NVIDIA have several on the move here that all meet up to have a very worthwhile improvement on the game.

Opaque Reflections, Transparent Reflections, Contact Shadows, and Indirect Diffuse all combine in a way that makes the world come to life and look more like a movie than what a video game traditionally looks like. And thanks to the almost grainy look of the game we’re able to implement the use of NVIDIA’s DLSS and the image stays intact without much scrutiny while bringing the performance back up to a very smooth level across the board"
https://wccftech.com/control-pc-performance-explored-all-in-on-rtx/3/

Merged into existing Nvidia thread.
Please use this thread to cover all
games that use RTX features, and do
not start individual threads.


AT Mod Usandthem

ok I added it to the OP,
thanks
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
480
126
conclusion from the control review,

"Now on to the real star of the visual of this game, RTX. In the past, I’ve seen the arguments that the RTX functions, whether it be shadows or reflections, didn’t impact the game that much. The best-received implementation so far has been in Metro Exodus and for good reason as the Ray Traced Global Illumination changed the way the game felt from an atmospheric standpoint. Well, I firmly believe that Control has snatched that title and ran away with it as this game is best played and enjoyed with all of the RTX features enabled. And if you’ve paid attention to the performance graphs you’ll see that even those running the entry to the RTX lineup with the RTX 2060 non-SUPER will not be left out on this one if they’re willing to turn on DLSS then at 1440p they can comfortably play with RT set to Medium and if they’re at 1080p they can crank everything and get around 60FPS. Without the help of DLSS, there is a pretty significant performance impact but most people can easily get away with RT set to Medium without using DLSS and enjoy the benefits of the reflections that make this game pop. From my experience the use of RT at Medium is a must, and if you have the horsepower or have a hard time telling that DLSS is enabled then crank it to RT High and have the icing on the cake and eat it too. I’ve been playing it at 1440p on my Ryzen 9 3900X with an RTX 2080 and everything cranked to High along with RT on High and DLSS, I have enjoyed every minute of this game and there’s just something that you can’t capture in screenshots and comparisons and that is sense of atmosphere this game brings when it is in motion."

https://wccftech.com/control-pc-performance-explored-all-in-on-rtx/3/