Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Kuiva maa]

Has this been posted yet?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580744743884967938

 

[Kaluan]

1440p matters to a lot, especially those with gaming monitors with 120 Hz and above.

Zen 4 sales are not good. It's possible that a lot of people looking to upgrade are waiting to see what Intel has to offer.

I've yet to see anyone show receipts for these claims. Hell I've mostly only seen the opposite.

Not to mention, we're barely into the second week of sales. I guess some clickbait outlet did a opinion piece on the Zen4 sales and now everyone takes that as gospel. The bar of what passes as factual these days is very low, so I'm not exactly shocked.

Anyway, we'll see in the following months.

I think at 3ghz it may match RPL igp at stock. I havent had the opportunity to play around Ryzen 7000 yet, i have cpus but not motherboards.

In 3DMark? Sure. We all know how Intel likes to churn out meaningless redults in synthetics 😅

why the low MT Score? It should be doing about 24K-26K

Not with DDR4 it ain't, if it gets more than 21K with DDR4 I'll be shocked.

 

[poke01]

Power usage does not matter much as long as tempos are fine. Though too much power used will make temps too high eventually no matter what. As for impact on electric bill, its a drop in the bucket compared to other devices so much more power hungry than PCs.

I am very happy even if its unlimted power the temps are great for 330w.

 

[Thunder 57]

Power usage does not matter much as long as tempos are fine. Though too much power used will make temps too high eventually no matter what. As for impact on electric bill, its a drop in the bucket compared to other devices so much more power hungry than PCs.

It's not so much the power use, it's all that extra waste heat. That's why I care about it.

 

[deasd]

Has this been posted yet?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1580744743884967938

Looks like all these leak are under unlimited power, 5.5Ghz is the symbolic clock which showed the CPU was pushed to limitation thanks to Kocicak showing to us.

The low Double Float score imply the E core's problem still cannot be solved......even the E core latency is better than ADL.

Now I'm wondering whether the results in Blender database were also tested under unlimited power or not......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579484009671036928

 

[poke01]

It's not so much the power use, it's all that extra waste heat. That's why I care about it.

but temps are still lower than zen 4 while being around same pref

 

[Markfw]

But the temps under stock settings are above 95C under Air or water for Zen 4. I know thats how AMD tuned it but all these years we wired our brains to see as under 90C as excellent.

I have said it here on other threads, but it needs repeating. I set my 7950x to 142watt ppt, and 90c (on my other one 85c) and they perform almost exactly the same as default. Do I need to try and set max temp 60 60c or something ????

 

[Markfw]

Power usage does not matter much as long as tempos are fine. Though too much power used will make temps too high eventually no matter what. As for impact on electric bill, its a drop in the bucket compared to other devices so much more power hungry than PCs.

Not if you have 12-15 of them running at 100%.

 

[Wolverine2349]

Not if you have 12-15 of them running at 100%.

Yes true if you have a lot it can add up very fast. But one of them like $20 to $30 or less in electric bill per year. But multiply that by 12-15 systems and yeah a big difference.

 

[Thunder 57]

but temps are still lower than zen 4 while being around same pref

I'm not talking about CPU temps. I'm talking about the heat being removed from it into the room.

 

[poke01]

Not if you have 12-15 of them running at 100%.

I have a solar farm, my biggest issue is temps. 13th gen looks better there.

 

[poke01]

I'm not talking about CPU temps. I'm talking about the heat being removed from it into the room.

250W and i9 gets 38, 318 in Cinebench. Temperatures hit 67C. Zen 4 for around same pref gets 230watts but 95C temp.
Seems me that Intel is better here.

Less cpu temps on intel means the cooler exhausting less hot air than AMD whereas AMD
CPU cooler will exhaust air that is more hot due to higher temps and an AMD Zen4 CPU will make the room hotter.

 

[LightningZ71]

There's something here that's not adding up. How is the part that's using MORE power resulting in LESS waste heat output? Has anyone actually taken the same AIO, running at the same speed, and done an actual temperature differential analysis between the input and the output side to measure the steady state temperature delta? We have very little exact detail on the precise location of the core temperature reading that EITHER part is providing, and very little true knowledge of how many square nm of die area that are actually producing that heat level. I don't think we really understand the true percentage of the input ppwer is dumped as waste heat for either product.

 

[Kocicak]

Good morning, to the temperatures I might add that I have 18°C here in the room now. I will try to run it for longer at some limited power.

EDIT: with computer case closed, all the panels on (BTW the ceiling cover panel has pretty thick foam in it restricting air output of the AIO and air flow in the case is pretty poor) and after 10 minutes I got max. temp 60°C at 160W power limit and 18.3°C ambient temperature. AIO is the cheapest 240 type I could get.

I am curious what would happen under my air cooler, I chose 160W limit because I know it can handle that heat.

 

[Markfw]

Yes true if you have a lot it can add up very fast. But one of them like $20 to $30 or less in electric bill per year. But multiply that by 12-15 systems and yeah a big difference.

Try hundreds a month. My electric bill is over $800 a month, and thats with 142 watt 5950x's. Imagine 300 watt 13900k's

 

[Hitman928]

250W and i9 gets 38, 318 in Cinebench. Temperatures hit 67C. Zen 4 for around same pref gets 230watts but 95C temp.
Seems me that Intel is better here.

Less cpu temps on intel means the cooler exhausting less hot air than AMD whereas AMD
CPU cooler will exhaust air that is more hot due to higher temps and an AMD Zen4 CPU will make the room hotter.

That’s not how physics works. The CPU with the higher power consumption will dump more heat into the surrounding environment. There’s no way around that. The temperature of the CPU doesn’t really matter in this regard, it is how much power is being wasted by the CPU which has to be drawn away from the CPU and dumped into the surrounding area.

 

[JustViewing]

250W and i9 gets 38, 318 in Cinebench. Temperatures hit 67C. Zen 4 for around same pref gets 230watts but 95C temp.
Seems me that Intel is better here.

Less cpu temps on intel means the cooler exhausting less hot air than AMD whereas AMD
CPU cooler will exhaust air that is more hot due to higher temps and an AMD Zen4 CPU will make the room hotter.

Your physics is incorrect here, in your example above the i9 will output 250w per second vs 230w for Zen4. Power(W) = heat output per second (Jules per second). The temperature of the heat source doesn't matter. The total heat output is what matter to increasing the room temperature. And secondly, the 95C is the hot-spot temperature of the die. The temperature of the heat-sink will be much lower.

 

[ondma]

Your physics is incorrect here, in your example above the i9 will output 250w per second vs 230w for Zen4. Power(W) = heat output per second. The temperature of the heat souce doesn't matter. The total heat output is what matter to increasing the room temperature. And secondly, the 95C is the hot-spot temperature of the die. The temperature of the heat-sink will be much lower.

Your conclusion is correct, but the nomenclature is not. The i9 will output 250 joules per second (watt = joules/sec).

 

[JustViewing]

Your conclusion is correct, but the nomenclature is not. The i9 will output 250 joules per second (watt = joules/sec).

Yes correct, I didn't want to put that because can't remember whether it was Joules or Kilo Joules . My physics days are long gone.

 

[deasd]

Zen 4 for around same pref gets 230watts but 95C temp.

Your physics is incorrect here, in your example above the i9 will output 250w per second vs 230w for Zen4.

Zen4 is......definitely not 'output 230w per second'..... and i9 is '250w per second' only if you manually limit it to 250w.

IIRC there's no direct comparison, if Zen4 benched with a limited power usage upon 200w. We only know 230w is the official PPT, but most test showed power usage is less than PPT. For example LinusTechTips' 7950X only consumes 200w under Prime95 while ComputerBase's has slightly less than 200w. Their both 12900KS results are 270watts with undervolt and 300watts stock.

OTOH. People also forget Zen4 has temperature limit setting which shows much more strong influence in user experience......

 

[Racan]

250W and i9 gets 38, 318 in Cinebench. Temperatures hit 67C. Zen 4 for around same pref gets 230watts but 95C temp.
Seems me that Intel is better here.

Less cpu temps on intel means the cooler exhausting less hot air than AMD whereas AMD
CPU cooler will exhaust air that is more hot due to higher temps and an AMD Zen4 CPU will make the room hotter.

It may seem counterintuitive to you but like what other have said, it's the power consumption that matters. Think about laptops, they all work at 90C+ under load, does that mean that they exhaust more heat than an 13900K running lower temps under load? Of course not.

 

[controlflow]

Try hundreds a month. My electric bill is over $800 a month, and thats with 142 watt 5950x's. Imagine 300 watt 13900k's

Why would you do that? This is a pretty disingenuous take. Why the determination to paint the Raptor Lake as a horrifically inefficient part? We are seeing very solid performance from the 13900k @ 160w. Not quite as good as the 7950x @ 142w but it is still very respectable. 32k+ R23 @ 160w and seemingly comfortable temps. If you had a Raptor Lake and were using it in a 24/7 @ 100% use case, you obviously would not run it way outside its efficiency sweet spot. You already knew all of this of course...

Of course we will reserve judgement until we see real reviews of these parts but it looks reasonable so far. It is better than I expected given Intel's process node handicap.

 

[Abwx]

WOW, 337Watts and its not 95C like Zen 4.

Great job Intel on temps but needs major work on power used.

Because he use an AIO, , with an air cooler it would be at 130°C at this power...

Edit : At 250W it will be hotter than a stock 7950X when using the same cooler...

 

[Det0x]

Nobody have asked but my PBO enabled Zen4 is getting these Cinebench R23 MT numbers at the following packet power limits: (PPT)

38.7k points @ 122w
33.5k points @ 80w
24.8k points @ 50w
18.5k points @ 35w

 

[Kocicak]

Nobody have asked but my PBO enabled Zen4 is getting these Cinebench R23 MT numbers at the following packet power limits: (PPT)

38.7k points @ 122w
33.5k points @ 80w
24.8k points @ 50w
18.5k points @ 35w

Are these watts real power drawn by the CPU? If yes, these numbers would be very impressive. Is the CPU tweaked somehow - undervolted?