Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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And a 7950x can't even think about dissipating 337w without invasive surgery and/or extreme cooling setups.....


It doesnt need to go that far power wise, on manual settings Computerbase got 40693 pts at around 200W and with an air cooler...

Besides at 250W the 13900K will run 7-14 °C hotter at same cooling than a stock 7950X because it s the thermal resistance of the cooling apparatus that limit the temp.


 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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Did designing/packaging chips that are better at dissipating heat cease to become a good thing all of a sudden?

I don't think it's really better packaging or some kind of fundamental thing Intel is doing that AMD isn't/can't do, it's more of a design choice given what they have to work with. In my perspective, bragging about how much more power your CPU can consume before it throttles isn't really something you should be proud of, especially when your competition is matching or beating your performance at lower power levels. It's like having a car that has the same top speed as the competitor but then bragging how your car can burn more fuel quicker to hit the same top speed. Sure, it's an accomplishment that took some engineering to make your less efficient car be able to burn more gas to reach parity with the competition, but in the end, it's not really something to brag about as you are basically bragging that you can be even more inefficient than your competitor.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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I don't think it's really better packaging or some kind of fundamental thing Intel is doing that AMD isn't/can't do, it's more of a design choice given what they have to work with. In my perspective, bragging about how much more power your CPU can consume before it throttles isn't really something you should be proud of, especially when your competition is matching or beating your performance at lower power levels. It's like having a car that has the same top speed as the competitor but then bragging how your car can burn more fuel quicker to hit the same top speed. Sure, it's an accomplishment that took some engineering to make your less efficient car be able to burn more gas to reach parity with the competition, but in the end, it's not really something to brag about as you are basically bragging that you can be even more inefficient than your competitor.
The other problem with what I do, is how long can that CPU sustain anything over 250 watts ? Mine runs 100% load 24/7/365. That would throttle a raptor lake very fast I bet, and kill the performance. I realize thats not the normal case, but in the high end there are many that expect sustained performance.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Ok, I must say I did not expect 337W.

Oh dear.

That is unlimited power. The picture showed 'Limited vykonu PL1/PL2' at 4095watts.

But . . .

So "default" is the unlimited mode? I remember some folks claiming this won't be the case...

Ugh. They really did it. Again. Now we get to blame OEMs instead of Intel, because, you know, that's not in spec!!! What a laugh.
 
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moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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I measured two more, here are the results:

View attachment 69082

View attachment 69083

View attachment 69084

It seems to be pretty efficient at lower power/frequency.

At 100W 13900K has the same score as 12900K had at 250W?
That's some really impressive efficiency improvement from ADL to RPL. Wish this was applicable across the whole product range, but we may only see it for the one actual RPL die. Not sure what to think about that since especially mobile could profit of that improvement otherwise.
 
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I don't think it's really better packaging or some kind of fundamental thing Intel is doing that AMD isn't/can't do, it's more of a design choice given what they have to work with. In my perspective, bragging about how much more power your CPU can consume before it throttles isn't really something you should be proud of, especially when your competition is matching or beating your performance at lower power levels. It's like having a car that has the same top speed as the competitor but then bragging how your car can burn more fuel quicker to hit the same top speed. Sure, it's an accomplishment that took some engineering to make your less efficient car be able to burn more gas to reach parity with the competition, but in the end, it's not really something to brag about as you are basically bragging that you can be even more inefficient than your competitor.

You are right it's a design choice. Intel is betting that most applications only use 6-8 cores and even 1-2 for many so those P cores can handle the foreground task while the E's handle the less user input sensitive background tasks. Intel's strategy is even more clear with Raptor than Alder. Still 8 P's but now 16 E's. They are using the die space of 10P's for 8+16 but getting a more competitive chip. Not so much better or worse than Zen 4, just different, especially when you figure pricing into the equation. Next iteration might be 8+32, which would put CB R23 at about 55,000. It's a very simple upgrade path for Intel. Simply reduce the process to fit more E's on the die. Even without architectural updates the upgrade path is "there." This is especially true as software becomes more and more parallel in nature as the E's will come into play in a bigger way.

AMD threw down a very strong hand with Zen 4 we'll see if Raptor can be competitive by the sales numbers in the end.
 

poke01

Senior member
Mar 8, 2022
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7950X can go into Eco Mode at 65W, run around 80-90% of peak power depending on the operation!
But the temps under stock settings are above 95C under Air or water for Zen 4. I know thats how AMD tuned it but all these years we wired our brains to see as under 90C as excellent.
 

poke01

Senior member
Mar 8, 2022
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AMD has them beat at Performance/Efficiency. I think we can put that argument to rest for good.
I mean thats expected since AMD is on a better node. Do people forget when it comes to AMD?

They don't forget when its Apple having a node advantage. AMD would not as impressive if Intel used the same node as them.
 

Wolverine2349

Member
Oct 9, 2022
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WOW, 337Watts and its not 95C like Zen 4.

Great job Intel on temps but needs major work on power used.


Power usage does not matter much as long as tempos are fine. Though too much power used will make temps too high eventually no matter what. As for impact on electric bill, its a drop in the bucket compared to other devices so much more power hungry than PCs.