RANT: Things every student getting into the computers field *should* know.

[PunDogg]

your a moron, most of my friends who graduated with MIS have real jobs, were as the CS majors, they were in the near top of there class, were about to be shipped to india, so they had to go back to school and get some mangement courses to get them a job, so do blame the economeny, and just cuz your good at something does not mean you will find a good paying job for it, you must have missed that class in finance and econ, ooh wait you didn;t have to take one, you didnt; have to take real world class you moron, CS is a respectfull field, but don't $hit on anyone else just cuz you can't do there work and you are too stupid to even try.

Dogg

 

[shazbot]

I'm graduating in may with an IS/Finance degree. Did EE/Finance for 2 years, b4 I realized that I hated EE. =|. As far as skills go, I have to agree somewhat. IS degrees are kind of a joke at my school. In our program, u take just 1 class in VB programming, and 1 class in building DB's. Everything I know I've learned on my own. But at the same time, the IS people & CS people fulfill very different roles in a corporate structure. But in all reality, I can't imagine some of the people in my IS classes designing systems... it'd be the biggest lollerfest ever. As it stands right now however, most IS people are going into the functional side of projects, and doing thigns like user req's, test scripts, etc.

 

[txxxx]

This rant is a bit pointless, you make it seem like everyone who doesnt do CS are scum of the earth....

And as for point 6, YEAH , RIGHT....

 

[iamwiz82]

suprisingly enough, a CS major with no social skills. :Q

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: DrNoobie
Eh, all are equally worthless.

 

[KEV1N]

I think if you're looking at the situation in terms of who's getting the jobs, I don't see it as an issue of what your major was. I also don't think you can blame outsourcing in all cases. It comes down to whether or not you have the "total package". You need the background/education, the ability to apply them, and the ability to communicate. Also helps if you bathe and dress well. Just graduated and can't get a job? Maybe you can stop blaming India and the economy and work on making yourself the "total package". I firmly believe that if you are a desirable employee in all aspects, you will be able to find work in any situation.

For what it's worth, I graduated with a B.S. in C.S. last year and I was able to land a job.

 

[PingSpike]

An Us versus Them mentality is a poor way of getting things done.

 

[Optimus]

Indispensible people are only indispensible until they are dispensed with.

I've seen brilliant CS programmers layed off before the simplest of Helpdesk people. I've seen entire helpdesks outsourced, and entire products outsourced, leaving developers out of jobs.

The truth is that the adaptable, the quick, and the flexible will always be employed. You are only unemployable when you refuse to change.

10 years into a career one's degree means little more than "Look! I went to college!". It sinks lower and lower on the ole' resume, supplanted by job experience, until it is little more than a footnote.

My point isn't, however, that a CS degree isn't worth it. Quite the contrary, it is one of the BEST starts to a computer career you can get. However, its just a start. After 10-15 years you need to be swimming on your own current skills/experience/merits - not your aging degree.

Anyone who gets a particular degree (CS or anything) because its a "moneymaker" will likely have a miserable career. Get a CS degree if you love to program. If you don't, don't. If you aren't sure - self-learn a simple one like VB and then decide.

My degree? COMMUNICATIONS. To quote the Simpsons "Don't worry, you can always fall back on your degree in... (checks) COMMUNICATIONS?!? Oh dear lord..." "I know! I know! Eees fohnee mayjor! Pachenko learn nah-thing, nahthing!".
BUT - it gave me the 'gift of gab', and so today I'm in Project Managment. Fluffy, sure - but it pays great and I enjoy it a lot. As a Project Manager its more important that I communicate ideas, requirements, etc well than it is for me to know C++. I'm happy, the programmers are happy (cuz I'm not a techno-idiot from marketing).

Get a degree you like. Do what you enjoy. Don't follow the money/geek prestige.

 

[agahnim]

I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the school you're graduating from. I am graduating with an MIS degree from Wichita State and I thought the MIS program sucked royally....I applied for several jobs and haven't gotten a single interview. I have a 3.9 GPA and a two year internship at a fairly decent company. So as of right now I'm not too impressed with MIS I think it's a crap degree in my opinion.

 

[phantom309]

Originally posted by: yllus
1) IT is not the same as CS. If was to be mean, I would say IT is a watered-down version of CS combined with some watered-down courses in management. These types of positions were in demand when Comp. Sci. graduates couldn't be relied upon to string together a coherent sentence in front of a crowd or relate well with others outside his immediate group of peers (read: geeks). This has changed.

We, of CS, no longer need you, the ITers. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy has healed our wardrobe, and our acne has vanished all on its own. Your lack of depth in your CS education will soon - if not already - be revealed, and our consolidation over your domain will begin. We, of CS, have become self-sufficient. Pack your bags.

Your recent flirtation with homosexuality may have healed your wardrobe, but your arrogance, childishness and pretentiousness tell me that the IT community has little to worry about from you.

 

[TuxDave]

Whoever said CE knows everything than an EE does and then some seriously needs to learn about specialization. It's very rare for me to find a CE who knows about device fabrication, layout/floorplanning, and transistor level digital design. It's also very rare for me to find an EE who's into CAD, OS Design, and Programming in generally. Different major, different skills.

 

[spidey07]

yllus,
you have much to learn.

Degrees have very little to do with career and what your degree is in has even LESS to do with advancement/challenge.

Once you've been in the "real world" a while you'll understand.

Don't fret though...most of us were young, dumb and full of *** in college or when we graduated. You eventually get over it.

 

[SeaMonki]

So where does a degree in telecom fits in? hehe..

 

[Chaotic42]

I'm majoring in Astronomy, Physics, and Mathematics, and that makes me better than all of you!

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
I'm majoring in Astronomy, Physics, and Mathematics, and that makes me better than all of you!

I know someone that has Bachelors and Masters degrees in those and is getting his PhD in EE

 

[Hammer]

MIS majors also have business degrees.

ill take a bba over your bs anyday.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I'm majoring in ancient Incan basket weaving. I'm better than all of you!

 

[agahnim]

I think the best way to go nowadays is to get an engineering degree of some sort then after you finish that get a MBA. That way you'll have some specialized technical knowledge and a decent grasp of general business concepts.

 

[thomsbrain]

yeah but CS will always be IT's bitch. they hold the power of the network! bow down!

 

[XNice]

remeber everyone does their own thing their own way. So MIS might work for some and CS, etx migh twork for others.im treating my degree(upcoming) as jus my foot in the door. That's all i feel i need. After that it doesn tmatter what happens i feel i can somehow convince whatever party im dealn with that goin g with me is a good idea for their company. IT or otherwise. The trick is as someone else mentioned, to stay flexible, be multi-talented. Communication is key and thats why a lot of colleges are ampin up their engineering / CIS programs with more literature classes, cause well you all know why. A lot of programmers and the such forget that they need to communicate well with someone who prolly wont know wtf you re talking about. MIS people are that balance, we know just enough to make money off it...not to invent it....

 

[wyvrn]

Why is it that CS guys think they are smarter than everyone else? 70% of systems projects designed by CS guys are considered failures. That is why the MIS field was created. Most CS people can't see the forest for the trees, and think quite stupidly that technology drives the business, when in reality it is the other way around. Technology is simply a tool, the business people create the need for the tool in the first place. MIS people, specifically, are trained with enough computer and business knowledge to handle designing an information system from the ground up (and not just how to program a GUI or database system).

Most Fortune 500 companies pay MILLIONS for properly schooled MIS/IT people with business backgrounds to design their information systems, including hardware and software. So you just keep on believing that Computer Science is the be all and end all of technology, after all, CS geeks have always been deluded about their actual worth to a corporation.

 

[XNice]

shhhh! dont let them know yet! we still need em...to code and the such.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Oh, I don't think EEs are smarter than CS majors. That's ridiculous. I think the programs might be more difficult in a general sense. I wouldn't say a person in engineering or science is smarter than someone in pottery, but that engineering/science is more difficult than pottery

Very good and accurate statement.

Originally posted by: PunDogg
your a moron, most of my friends who graduated with MIS have real jobs, were as the CS majors, they were in the near top of there class, were about to be shipped to india, so they had to go back to school and get some mangement courses to get them a job, so do blame the economeny, and just cuz your good at something does not mean you will find a good paying job for it, you must have missed that class in finance and econ, ooh wait you didn;t have to take one, you didnt; have to take real world class you moron, CS is a respectfull field, but don't $hit on anyone else just cuz you can't do there work and you are too stupid to even try.

Dogg

Never make claims on another's intelligence when you have not yet mastered:

A) The difference between "your" and "you're".
B) The difference between "there" and "their".
C) The spelling of basic words like "management", "economy", "respectful".

Don't try to protest, "It's a message board, who cares about spelling!" Just hop, skip and jump your way down to a Spelling and Grammar 101 program at the local community college, tout suite.

Originally posted by: phantom309
Your recent flirtation with homosexuality may have healed your wardrobe, but your arrogance, childishness and pretentiousness tell me that the IT community has little to worry about from you.

How amusing, having one's sexuality insulted by the people voted most likely to suck management's c*cks to avoid the axe (read: IT). Keep on dreaming.

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
I'm majoring in Astronomy, Physics, and Mathematics, and that makes me better than all of you!

Either that or a true-blooded sadomasochist. :Q

 

[wyvrn]

Originally posted by: XNice
shhhh! dont let them know yet! we still need em...to code and the such.

Most of them are excellent coders. That's the problem. They often think everything can be solved by a program. The fact is, an information system is a marriage between a business process consisting of people and various levels of technology. You can have the most sophisticated software that won't do jack if you don't understand how to use it in your business. This is why in every Oracle contract, there is a paragraph about changing the business processes to match the program. In reality, the whole point of software is to perform tasks to support the existing business processes.

 

[Narse]

Originally posted by: jemcam

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: jemcam
Okay Yllus, after reading your profile and visiting your website, I've decided that what you need is a mentor, someone older that you respect and want to emulate. Spend lots of time with him/her, be honest and open just like you have with us, and do what he tells you. It seems unnatural at first, but if he's a good mentor, he'll explain why.

For instance, holding back on voicing your opinions and being too brash.

I was very much like you, but luckily someone above me saw my potential and turned me into more of a corporate person, which opened lots of doors and made me much more marketable inside and outside of the company.

I'm not cutting you down at all, I think you would be a good employee, but you will or can be great with a little more wisdom under your belt.

The dick joke is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

You're gonna write me off as bering an arrogant ass for saying this but I hope I don't become a "corporate person" and a "good employee" regardless of having a mentor or not. "corporate employees" work for, well, large corporations where they spend their days going through administrative work and justifying why they spent 12 cents on a BIC pen.

I can't speak for sully, but I'd have my own (or work in a) start-up even if it means working 70 hours a week on something that I am truly passionate about, rather than working a 9-5 job in some ungrateful corporation. Being a good employee will get you a stable, uneventful job; maybe I'll want that when I settle down working in this kind of company isn't what I'm looking for coming right out of university.

Just my thoughts on it. Take it for what it's worth.

I worked for several years at many small businesses, starting with my Dad's auto repair shop prior to working for a big corporation. The thing that brought me to a big company was job security and a steady salary.

I agree with you though, working for a large corporation isn't for most people right out of college. The different experiences are what makes you marketable and gives you character. When I had enough character building, I went Corporate and worked less, came home at 4:00 every day, get lots of vacation, tons of bennies, and a very tall ladder to get on and start working my way up.

Hey, it's not for everyone, but it works well for me.

EDIT: For the record, I sure as hell didn't want to be doing what I am now when I was 22 either. Priorities change, you get jaded, you'll find out soon enough.

Damn, It's nice to see someone else that has been through it, Don't count on that Big badass CS degree you get to make it for you, college gets you in the door, everything else is up to you. and your actions. When you have worked in "OUR" industry 10yrs or more, we will talk.