Raise minimum wage?

[Throckmorton]

Who is "you people"? I voted for Obama and I don't regret not voting for McCain/Palin. Again, stop being a kneejerk partisan, stop attacking motives, and try to look at the arguments.

I don't believe something is true or false because of how nice it makes me feel. I believe in supply and demand because it makes sense and has been observed at work in the real world. Like I've already repeated numerous times, if you want to help poor people give them aid directly. Your argument is quite childish and is akin to saying "if you don't spend tons of money on the military you don't support our troops."

So why don't high CEO salaries cause inflation?

 

[xj0hnx]

Not THE customer. By all the customers that give him tips. It's the same as passing on a cost to the customer, except in this case it's explicitly separated.

Customers making up the gap between $2.13 and $20 is the same as the employer paying $20 and charging more for the burger itself.

No, it's not the same at all, but I'm sure that somehow your mind has made it so. Even if in the theoretical it did pan out the way you hope, it would only do so for tipped earners, but to think that an employer is going to pay almost ten times someone's pay, and not raise prices, or lose jobs, is beyond naive.

 

[Infohawk]

So why don't high CEO salaries cause inflation?

Everybody's purchasing contributes to inflation. CEO's only need so much toilet paper, so they're going to have a small effect on the price of toilet paper. You're more likely to see an effect on housing in desirable places like Manhattan and Beverly Hills. If you haven't noticed there's plenty of cheap housing in other places to go around.

Why do you think this is an important question? CEO salaries are determined by the market. Low-level salaries should be too. Maybe you're confusing my points with another poster's?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That sounds great. If everybody in the lower quintiles gets paid more with money out of the top's disproportionate share of income, everything will work out fine. No inflation because the total amount of money stays the same.

How is this going to come out of the top earners? The burden will still be on the lower and middle class. Businesses will still pass on the costs to the consumer, if they can't be profitable it will result in loss of jobs.

 

[drebo]

Not THE customer. By all the customers that give him tips. It's the same as passing on a cost to the customer, except in this case it's explicitly separated.

Customers making up the gap between $2.13 and $20 is the same as the employer paying $20 and charging more for the burger itself.

No it's not. You're forgetting about idle time.

If the restaurant owner has to pay the waiters $20/hr even when there's no one in the restaurant, that further increases the cost of food. Currently, a waiter only makes $20/hr when he's waiting tables. That may only be for 3 hours out of a 5 hour shift. That extra $40 in that idle time will drive up the cost of the burgers by quite a bit.

By paying wait staff a "tip" wage, the restaurant has much lower overhead, thus much lower prices on their food. Waiters get paid well for good service, and poorly for rendering no service. The restaurant's overhead is the same whether the waiter is doing nothing or juggling 50 tables.

$20/hr wage vs. tip wages + tips are two completely different animals and are not even clsoe to having the same impact on the total cost of a meal in a restaurant.

 

[OutHouse]

there are at least 7 people trying to explain to throck how is view is wrong but for some reason its not sinking through his thick head. i dont get it how much plainer do we have to explain it to you? maybe if you removed the "tips" from your thought process you might just understand that higher wages means higher prices period. dude its basic math.

oh why must you call people right wing whackos when they disagree with you? you called me one a few pages back and let me tell you i am not right wing. was it just a lame attempt to attack the messenger and not the message because you know deep down yours is flawed?

 

[Icepick]

We have to raise the minimum wage because owners of corporations are too insanely crooked to let people earn a decent living. When the wealthy voluntarily stop hoarding everything for themselves then we can afford to relax government's involvement in the economy. Unfortunately, the wealthy are prepared to fight for everything they have. Therefore, we need to have a stronger government that plays an ever increasing role in regulating the economy. Raising the minimum wage will be a positive step in the right direction.

 

[Icepick]

there are at least 7 people trying to explain to throck how is view is wrong but for some reason its not sinking through his thick head. i dont get it how much plainer do we have to explain it to you? maybe if you removed the "tips" from your thought process you might just understand that higher wages means higher prices period. dude its basic math.

oh why must you call people right wing whackos when they disagree with you? you called me one a few pages back and let me tell you i am not right wing. was it just a lame attempt to attack the messenger and not the message because you know deep down yours is flawed?

Why not view it as "higher wages lead to a slightly smaller mansion for the owner and, perhaps, the owner upgrades their Mercedes Benz every other year instead of every year." I'm willing to bet they could afford to share some wealth.

 

[Ronstang]

That sounds great. If everybody in the lower quintiles gets paid more with money out of the top's disproportionate share of income, everything will work out fine. No inflation because the total amount of money stays the same.

Are you truly this stupid?

I guess no one ever discusses the wage/price spiral in business school anymore? No one here seems to understand the concept, that is for sure.

 

[Cogman]

Why not view it as "higher wages lead to a slightly smaller mansion for the owner and, perhaps, the owner upgrades their Mercedes Benz every other year instead of every year." I'm willing to bet they could afford to share some wealth.

Because it simply does not work like that.

Put yourself in the CEOs shoes. You can
A. take a pay cut that MAY be enough to cover the pay raises (it may not be enough).
B. Fire some employees resulting in bad PR and potentially less products.
C. Raise your prices, keep your pay and the current employees that you have without any real bad PR (so long as most of the competition takes this route).

You're pretty much going to choose C every time. Not only that, but you may HAVE to choose C as your suppliers are most likely going to raise their prices.

A CEO making $1,000,000 per year simply doesn't have the capital to give 5,000 employees a $2 an hour pay raise. (and that is a generous yearly salary).

Small business owners suffer worse. They can't just take a pay cut to fund everything.

Yes, there are filthy rich people out there, but they don't exist in every company. Painting the picture of a scrouge mcduck at the helm of every company creates a none existent scapegoat.

 

[Throckmorton]

No, it's not the same at all, but I'm sure that somehow your mind has made it so. Even if in the theoretical it did pan out the way you hope, it would only do so for tipped earners, but to think that an employer is going to pay almost ten times someone's pay, and not raise prices, or lose jobs, is beyond naive.

I DID NOT SAY THAT THEY WOULDN'T RAISE PRICES. I said the burger costs $12 including the $2 tip, for the waiter to be making $20. I broke down my example so you could understand it, and specifically said that the burger costs 20% more than it does without the tip. Did you not any of read my posts at all?

 

[Throckmorton]

there are at least 7 people trying to explain to throck how is view is wrong but for some reason its not sinking through his thick head. i dont get it how much plainer do we have to explain it to you? maybe if you removed the "tips" from your thought process you might just understand that higher wages means higher prices period. dude its basic math.

oh why must you call people right wing whackos when they disagree with you? you called me one a few pages back and let me tell you i am not right wing. was it just a lame attempt to attack the messenger and not the message because you know deep down yours is flawed?

OH MY GOD

I said that the cost of the cheeseburger is higher.

THAT IS THE POINT OF THE FUCKING TIP

How many times do I have to fucking say it?

I specifically listed the tip as part of the cost of the cheeseburger that gets the waiter up to $20. That is the whole point of my example.

I specifically listed the tip as part of the cost of the cheeseburger that gets the waiter up to $20. That is the whole point of my example.

I specifically listed the tip as part of the cost of the cheeseburger that gets the waiter up to $20. That is the whole point of my example.

I specifically listed the tip as part of the cost of the cheeseburger that gets the waiter up to $20. That is the whole point of my example.

I specifically listed the tip as part of the cost of the cheeseburger that gets the waiter up to $20. That is the whole point of my example.

 

[xj0hnx]

I DID NOT SAY THAT THEY WOULDN'T RAISE PRICES. I said the burger costs $12 including the tip, for the waiter to be making $20. I broke down my example so you could understand it, and specifically said that the burger costs 20% more than it does without the tip. Did you not any of read my posts at all?

Then why all the melodramatics if you are agreeing that increasing minimum wage is going to increase prices? Seems you did a lot of dancing to wind up in the same spot.

 

[Throckmorton]

Then why all the melodramatics if you are agreeing that increasing minimum wage is going to increase prices? Seems you did a lot of dancing to wind up in the same spot.

Because my point is that it doesn't increase the price of a cheeseburger from $10 to $25. It increases it from $10 to $12.

Restaurants all over the country have waiters who make $20, and people keep going to those restaurants and paying their salaries. This inflation chick littleism is ridiculous. People at the bottom can and should make a living wage.

 

[xj0hnx]

Because my point is that it doesn't increase the price of a cheeseburger from $10 to $25. It increases it from $10 to $12.

Restaurants all over the country have waiters who make $20, and people keep going to those restaurants and paying their salaries. This inflation chick littleism is ridiculous. People at the bottom can and should make a living wage.

You don't know how much it will increase the price, but if the employer is paying a waiter almost ten times more than it's going to go up more than $2.

 

[OutHouse]

Are you truly this stupid?

I guess no one ever discusses the wage/price spiral in business school anymore? No one here seems to understand the concept, that is for sure.

thats part of the reason our country has wracked up more debt in the past 2 years than in the history of the US. nobody understands the value of money. its just a number that means nothing.

 

[Throckmorton]

thats part of the reason our country has wracked up more debt in the past 2 years than in the history of the US. nobody understands the value of money. its just a number that means nothing.

The reason we had a financial meltdown is that money, which is nothing but the representation of the abstract concept of value, has been elevated to godhood and somehow created an entire industry that produces nothing.

 

[Ronstang]

The reason we had a financial meltdown is that money, which is nothing but the representation of the abstract concept of value, has been elevated to godhood and somehow created an entire industry that produces nothing.

What do you produce Mr. Government Geographer?

 

[matt0611]

Because my point is that it doesn't increase the price of a cheeseburger from $10 to $25. It increases it from $10 to $12.

Restaurants all over the country have waiters who make $20, and people keep going to those restaurants and paying their salaries. This inflation chick littleism is ridiculous. People at the bottom can and should make a living wage.

You neglect to take into the costs of everything else that goes into making the components of a cheese burger.

The increased costs of the people who raise that cow that buy supplies, the transportation costs, all the supplies that the restaurant owner buys and their higher prices because of their increased costs etc ad infinum

Doubling the minimum wage will send a shockwave of higher prices throughout the entire economy.
It will also probably cause a lot of unemployment.

 

[OutHouse]

The reason we had a financial meltdown is that money, which is nothing but the representation of the abstract concept of value, has been elevated to godhood and somehow created an entire industry that produces nothing.

i rest my case. Thank you, you just proved me exactly right.

 

[Zorkorist]

During the 50s , a nice house was 10 000 USD,
to be compared to 200 USD monthly incomes...

That was 50 monthly salaries to buy a home....
What is the ratio by theses days..??..

These days, credit is impossible to obtain, because the Government is insolvent.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Who would lend money in a time where the Government owes trillions?

-John

 

[Matt1970]

Because my point is that it doesn't increase the price of a cheeseburger from $10 to $25. It increases it from $10 to $12.

Restaurants all over the country have waiters who make $20, and people keep going to those restaurants and paying their salaries. This inflation chick littleism is ridiculous. People at the bottom can and should make a living wage.

It will now cost 20% more to have tires put on your car.
It will now cost 20% more to have your oil changed.
It will now cost 20% more to buy a house.
It will now cost 20% more for groceries at the store.
And so on, and so on...

 

[Craig234]

You neglect to take into the costs of everything else that goes into making the components of a cheese burger.

The increased costs of the people who raise that cow that buy supplies, the transportation costs, all the supplies that the restaurant owner buys and their higher prices because of their increased costs etc ad infinum

Doubling the minimum wage will send a shockwave of higher prices throughout the entire economy.
It will also probably cause a lot of unemployment.

And you prove what I said about righties who just Make Stuff Up.

Go get the percent of all wages that are minimum wage, for fun - but more importantly go find a study on how much increases in the minimum wage affect inflation.

THEN say something about the inflationary effect on an increase.

 

[Craig234]

Who would lend money in a time where the Government owes trillions?

-John

And a question for another fact-free righty: how much in loans were made in the US last year? Then common on how 'no one would lend money'.

In fact, with our all-time record PRIVATE debt that dwarfs the public debt of $14 trillion, there's a bit of lending happening.

Go get info and then post info.