Question for atheists that grew up in Christian households

[nageov3t]

That's one way to look at it, the other way is.. at what point do I stop pretending? Do I have my hypothtical kids baptized? Do I have them take communion? Do I have them confirmed? Do I drag them to church on Christmas and Easter?

Edit: and shouldn't my parents respect my decision on the matter? I believe strongly that the answer is yes, the only reason I haven't told them is because I think it could be painful for them.

you'll probably talk about it with your hypothetical wife, who may or may not be religious herself.

the way my sister looked at it, baptism is a meaningless ceremony that takes an afternoon and gets them some free gifts. by the time communion and confirmation come around, the kids will be old enough to decide for themselves.

(ironically, because I believe in god, I'd never do it myself... I have moral issues with the idea of lying when swearing an oath to god in a church)

 

[Blackjack200]

Regardless of the religion, do you find yourself in agreement with some of the non-God principles lineated by the church?

Abstinence at least up until high school?
Drugs?
General teachings of right and wrongdoing?
Learning to forgive and recognize it?

Some of these principles are harder to teach outside of the church, because it comes in a combo package there and has a good chance at keeping kids out from doing "immoral" things.

Don't get me wrong though. I've been associated with Christianity since sometime in early grade school. Not family, rather neighbors. Up until high school/college where I started deviating and doing my own things. I still go back, or read the bible every now and then to learn what was said about a particular issue.

Oh God, this is going to derail the thread, but here we go:

I disagree with the church on almost all sexual issues, I have no problem with recreational drug use (except that their legal status had made using them needlessly risky.) And I disagree with most of their right/wrong and forgiveness teaching too.

What kind of issue to do you go back to the bible for?

 

[JulesMaximus]

you'll probably talk about it with your hypothetical wife, who may or may not be religious herself.

the way my sister looked at it, baptism is a meaningless ceremony that takes an afternoon and gets them some free gifts. by the time communion and confirmation come around, the kids will be old enough to decide for themselves.

(ironically, because I believe in god, I'd never do it myself... I have moral issues with the idea of lying when swearing an oath to god in a church)

Ironically, many so called believers don't seem to have that problem.

What if you're on the fence? Not sure if you really believe or not, or what if you question your faith, does that make it lying if you swear an oath to god in a church?

 

[Mr. Lennon]

I come from a pretty strong Catholic family. I had to go through Sunday school, communion, confirmation, etc. Fucking hated every bit of it, and so did the majority of the kids there. I started to question my beliefs at the time all of those molestation charges were being brought against the church.

After a lot of self reflection and research I decided I wanted nothing to do with religion. I told my parents how I felt and they didn't take it well at all. Eventually they gave up after they realized their worthless arguments for religion had no effect on me. It's actually gotten to the point now that I think my dad (pretty intelligent guy) has shown signs of really thinking about my arguments against religion. I think I'll break him one day...but I could only imagine how hard it would be to break 50+ years of indoctrination.

 

[Blackjack200]

(ironically, because I believe in god, I'd never do it myself... I have moral issues with the idea of lying when swearing an oath to god in a church)

See, that's why I'd have a problem with it. You're not just dunking the kid's head in water. You're promising to raise it in the church.

 

[JulesMaximus]

See, that's why I'd have a problem with it. You're not just dunking the kid's head in water. You're promising to raise it in the church.

But you don't even have kids so I'm not sure why this is even an issue for you at the moment.

 

[Malak]

While I am not an atheist and not intentionally a target for the discussion, I still find my situation relevant. I don't go to church. I have made it clear to my parents that I don't like to talk about it with them. I have discussed it a bit with friends that are pastors. The reason I don't like to talk to my parents about it is because they don't understand, they are religious-minded. People that go to church most often think that is all it is to be a Christian. And instead of spreading the good news of what Jesus did, they spread the good news of how awesome their church is.

 

[Blackjack200]

It's actually gotten to the point now that I think my dad (pretty intelligent guy) has shown signs of really thinking about my arguments against religion. I think I'll break him one day...but I could only imagine how hard it would be to break 50+ years of indoctrination.

Wow, my folks are the same way. I remember once my Dad said he didn't believe that the resurrection really happened, and that's pretty central to almost any Christian tradition. My mom once said that she didn't believe in heaven and hell.

I talk about this alot with my brother, who is also an atheist, and he thinks my mom doesn't believe anymore but is just playing along for my father. I can't imagine how tough it must be to give something up you've believed in for almost 60 years.

 

[JS80]

Oh God, this is going to derail the thread, but here we go:

I disagree with the church on almost all sexual issues, I have no problem with recreational drug use (except that their legal status had made using them needlessly risky.) And I disagree with most of their right/wrong and forgiveness teaching too.

What kind of issue to do you go back to the bible for?

There is what the church teaches, and the lessons Jesus taught. Which of Jesus's teachings do you disagree with (if any)?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Wow, my folks are the same way. I remember once my Dad said he didn't believe that the resurrection really happened, and that's pretty central to almost any Christian tradition. My mom once said that she didn't believe in heaven and hell.

I talk about this alot with my brother, who is also an atheist, and he thinks my mom doesn't believe anymore but is just playing along for my father. I can't imagine how tough it must be to give something up you've believed in for almost 60 years.

I think many people go through periods of questioning their faith. Fuck knows I have.

 

[Blackjack200]

There is what the church teaches, and the lessons Jesus taught. Which of Jesus's teachings do you disagree with (if any)?

I don't know, most of Jesus's teaching I find pretty vague, and not always applicable. 'Turn the other cheek' is a good example. 'Love your enemy' seems like a pretty lousy teaching.

 

[ahenkel]

My parents know and don't give a shit.

 

[Duder1no]

short of dragging me to church against my will there was nothing they could do about it. And there would have been plenty of bloodshed had they tried it that way.

wow

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

There was a time when I was first discovering and assimilating my own dissention from my parents' Christian beliefs that I was motivated to engage them in discussions on the subject. I think at the time I felt I was realizing something that was actually pretty obvious to me when I finally looked at it, and I thought that it would be equally obvious to them. I thought they'd actually appreciate the insight and liberation the way I had.

I soon realized that their beliefs weren't rationally-based to begin with, and trying to discuss their beliefs rationallly was an exercise in futility.

Nowadays they know where I stand, and I know where they stand, and they know I know where they stand, and everybody just tacitly agrees not to talk about it too much. It's really just my mom and my sister that have strong beliefs since my parent's divorce anyway. I play along with dinner-time prayers, and I won't mind if I get married in a church, etc. I view it as doing small favors for the people I care about so as not to disturb their peace.

 

[JS80]

I don't know, most of Jesus's teaching I find pretty vague, and not always applicable. 'Turn the other cheek' is a good example. 'Love your enemy' seems like a pretty lousy teaching.

Treating others how you would want them to treat you - you really believe that is a lousy philosophy to live by?

 

[Mr. Lennon]

There was a time when I was first discovering and assimilating my own dissention from my parents' Christian beliefs that I was motivated to engage them in discussions on the subject. I think at the time I felt I was realizing something that was actually pretty obvious to me when I finally looked at it, and I thought that it would be equally obvious to them. I thought they'd actually appreciate the insight and liberation the way I had.

I soon realized that their beliefs weren't rationally-based to begin with, and trying to discuss their beliefs rationallly was an exercise in futility.

Nowadays they know where I stand, and I know where they stand, and they know I know where they stand, and everybody just tacitly agrees not to talk about it too much. It's really just my mom and my sister that have strong beliefs since my parent's divorce anyway. I play along with dinner-time prayers, and I won't mind if I get married in a church, etc. I view it as doing small favors for the people I care about so as not to disturb their peace.

I can understand going along with dinner time prayers...but getting married in a church to please them? Don't be a pushover...it's your marriage, not theirs.

 

[moshquerade]

Treating others how you would want them to treat you - you really believe that is a lousy philosophy to live by?

well played :thumbsup:

 

[Blackjack200]

My parents know and don't give a shit.

I hope they didn't find out by seeing your avatar :biggrin:

I play along with dinner-time prayers, and I won't mind if I get married in a church, etc. I view it as doing small favors for the people I care about so as not to disturb their peace.

It's the expectation that I play along that I find annoying. I really wish there was a way for my atheism to be known to them and respected without throwing it in their face.

 

[Blackjack200]

Treating others how you would want them to treat you - you really believe that is a lousy philosophy to live by?

You're referring to the golden rule, which I've been told doesn't actually appear in the bible. And whether or not it does, it's not one of the teachings I referenced, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

And FWIW, yes, it's also a stupid teaching. A judge doesn't treat a defendant how he would want to be treated. It's an overly simplistic rule that has next to no application in the real world.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

I can understand going along with dinner time prayers...but getting married in a church to please them? Don't be a pushover...it's your marriage, not theirs.

Honestly, I really don't care where my marriage takes place at this point because I haven't thought it out or had to plan anything. Certainly, if I (and the missus-to-be) decided to have our wedding on a beach or something, we would, and I don't think my parents would be that upset about it. If push came to shove, I'd certainly tell them where to stick it. If my hypothetical fiancee had a religious family that was strongly pushing for a church ceremony, and if that's what she wanted, it would really be no big deal to me.

Frankly, I think the whole idea of registering and certifying a relationship through a bunch of pageantry and rigmarole is fundamentally asinine in the first place, but that's another thread...

 

[Kadarin]

Treating others how you would want them to treat you - you really believe that is a lousy philosophy to live by?

What does that have to do with Jesus? That's a moral that has no religious requirement.

 

[JS80]

You're referring to the golden rule, which I've been told doesn't actually appear in the bible. And whether or not it does, it's not one of the teachings I referenced, so I'm not sure why you brought it up.

And FWIW, yes, it's also a stupid teaching. A judge doesn't treat a defendant how he would want to be treated. It's an overly simplistic rule that has next to no application in the real world.

A judge is required to follow the rule of law. Jesus's teaching was to the individual so one can walk the earth with peace of mind and a peaceful heart.

You are the one making it overly simplistic. The specific quote you refer to was with reference to eye for an eye. I think someone once said eye for an eye and the world turns blind. I think it's enlightening for one to forgive others and forgo revenge.

Ultimately it's your choice.

 

[gaidensensei]

Do onto others? That should be in the verses of every bible out there today.

Regardless, my earlier question was aimed to see how you felt about raising potential kids, because you asked. It seems you should and just ought to cut the loose ends.
I'm firm on believing no one should be forced to do what they don't want to, that includes having a religion.

 

[Kadarin]

My parents are nominally Catholic, meaning that they don't go to church. When I was a teenager, they made me and my brother do the whole first communion and confirmation things, and those experiences cemented in my mind the realization that the whole idea of Catholicism was just so utterly arbitrary and pointless that it couldn't possibly be real. I've never had any problem telling my parents that.

 

[JS80]

What does that have to do with Jesus? That's a moral that has no religious requirement.

After love God, that is the greatest commandment Jesus preached. Google "greatest commandment."

Origins of morality is a whole separate discussion.