Question about Aliens (1986)

Page 7 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,953
44,825
136
If the company knew about the crashed ship and programmed MOTHER with coordinates, why didn't the Nostromo take them there on the first pass near the system? Why did they waste time traveling far past LV-426's system, then waste more time collecting a full load of mineral ore, then travel most of the way back home before diverting course? By doing that, the company risks a full load of valuable mineral ore along with the Nostromo and crew. The second movie implies that the ship and ore were extremely valuable to the company.

The most probable explanation is that the company did not detect the signal until shortly before the Nostromo left Thedus on the return voyage to Earth, hence Ash's late placement as science officer (holding orders for him and the Nostromo computer to return a specimen at all costs). The Nostromo is diverted to the system where it finds the signal coming from LV-426 since it is the next ship headed that way. LV-426 might also be far enough from the regular shipping lanes/other colonies that the signal was not detected until that point. Ash's reaction to the alien seems to indicate the company had knowledge that the signal was a warning and not a distress beacon. Obviously the company intended the Nostromo to return home with a specimen and the ship/cargo. The crew making it home was clearly of no concern.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,524
15,568
146
The most probable explanation is that the company did not detect the signal until shortly before the Nostromo left Thedus on the return voyage to Earth, hence Ash's late placement as science officer (holding orders for him and the Nostromo computer to return a specimen at all costs). The Nostromo is diverted to the system where it finds the signal coming from LV-426 since it is the next ship headed that way. LV-426 might also be far enough from the regular shipping lanes/other colonies that the signal was not detected until that point. Ash's reaction to the alien seems to indicate the company had knowledge that the signal was a warning and not a distress beacon. Obviously the company intended the Nostromo to return home with a specimen and the ship/cargo. The crew making it home was clearly of no concern.


If we really want to retcon it, it's very possible the Nostromo was making regular runs in the general (interstellar) vicinity of lv-426. I would assume the company was quietly using every ship in its fleet to look for signs of the jockey race. Maybe Mother recorded a snippet of the warning from lv-426 on the previous circuit and the company made sure the next return flight would be close enough to check it out. They added Ash and if they found something $$$, if not no one was the wiser.

If that was a major mining/shipping route it may also explain why they wanted to Terraform lv-426 as it was a much closer waypoint to wherever the Nostromo was going to mine.
 
Last edited:

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,524
15,568
146
Also hitting lv-426 on the return flight would be safer. If the Nostromo never shows up at the mine questions would be asked. If they show up with an Alien in tow well screaming and colonial marines would be in order not secrecy. But if they get the specimens on the way home to a company controlled port no one, not the government or competitors would be the wiser.

(trying to think like greedy, short sighted, malevolent fools here)
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,953
44,825
136
If we really want to retcon it, it's very possible the Nostromo was making regular runs in the general (interstellar) vicinity of lv-426. I would assume the company was quietly using every ship in its fleet to look for signs of the jockey race. Maybe Mother recorded a snippet of the warning from lv-426 on the previous circuit and the company made sure the next return flight would be close enough to check it out. They added Ash and if they found something $$$, if not no one was the wiser.

If that was a major mining/shipping route it may also explain why they wanted to Terraform lv-426 as it was a much closer waypoint to wherever the Nostromo was going to mine.

The company would only send the Nostromo if they were in a time crunch and didn't want anyone else to investigate the signal before they could...assuming there was something there they could use.

Ash seemed to be programmed not to kill the crew himself unless the mission was threatened. Allowing the alien to kill in order to preserve itself was apparently acceptable. This would indicate that he had very clear instructions on what he was supposed to do on board.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
51,953
44,825
136
Also hitting lv-426 on the return flight would be safer. If the Nostromo never shows up at the mine questions would be asked. If they show up with an Alien in tow well screaming and colonial marines would be in order not secrecy. But if they get the specimens on the way home to a company controlled port no one, not the government or competitors would be the wiser.

(trying to think like greedy, short sighted, malevolent fools here)

There was some concern in Aliens about getting the organism through quarantine when returning to Earth, unknown if this procedure was in place during the Alien timeframe. Ash also could have been instructed to divert the ship to another location if they picked something up. Burke didn't have that option since he was hitching a ride on a military ship which couldn't just disappear and have him reappear without explanation.
 

adlep

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2001
5,287
6
81
Self ownage.

Prometheus has been released. It was released on June 1 in Europe. HAL9000 has seen Prometheus and he agrees with CZroe and I. He has not shared any plot details with me. All of my information is known simply from watching the original Alien and trailers for Prometheus (yes, the trailers contain massive spoilers). I recently re-watched the original Alien multiple times and you are absolutely incorrect. I've also re-watched Aliens twice in the same period and it further supports the facts I've stated.

Though you might think MOTHER is a communication system, it is not. MOTHER is an advanced (by 1979 standards) ship AI / autopilot system. The movie states many times that the Nostromo is too far-out to communicate with Earth at this point on their journey home. MOTHER detected the alien signal and followed "her" programming, which contained directives and protocols for this exact scenario (encountering a transmission from a possible alien life form or ship in distress). According to protocol, MOTHER diverted course. When the Nostromo reached the planet / system where the signal originated (LV-426), MOTHER woke the crew from stasis. Diverting course added weeks (months?) to the time required to return home. The entire crew were contractually obligated to investigate. In a scene packed with expository dialogue, the crew explains this in no uncertain terms.

If the company knew about the crashed ship and programmed MOTHER with coordinates, why didn't the Nostromo take them there on the first pass near the system? Why did they waste time traveling far past LV-426's system, then waste more time collecting a full load of mineral ore, then travel most of the way back home before diverting course? By doing that, the company risks a full load of valuable mineral ore along with the Nostromo and crew. The second movie implies that the ship and ore were extremely valuable to the company.

The second movie, Aliens, only further emphasizes that the company did not know about the existence of the creature on LV-426, nor the derelict spacecraft.

When Ripley is found over 50 years later and returns to the planet, there is a long-range communication system in place; but it takes weeks to deliver a message and probably a full month to get a response. The company doesn't know of the creature nor of the derelict spacecraft. Apparently, the spacecraft's beacon stopped transmitting long before colonists arrived to terraform LV-426. At this point, the company had invested inconceivable amounts of money to terraform the planet. Though the company bigwigs don't believe Ripley's story about what happened to the Nostromo, Carter Burke (the sleazy guy) wanted to know for sure if Ripley's story was true...so he sent a vague transmission to the colony to investigate the coordinates where Ripley reported finding the derelict spacecraft. His transmission did not explain the threat or warn the colony. A colonist goes to check out the coordinates and and is brought back to the colony with a face-hugger attached...then bad things happen. It takes weeks for the company to know that the colony has stopped communicating, so Burke assumes the worst and believes Ripley's story. A team of space marines is assembled to go and find out what happened to the colony. Ripley can no longer sleep, frequently having nightmares about the creatures. So she might be able to sleep soundly again, she goes against her initial instinct and tags along with the space marines...only to make sure the company keeps their word and destroys the creature without bringing it back to Earth.

I urge you to watch the movies again.

I honestly believe you've seen the movie Moon and somehow allowed it to influence your memory of Alien. In Moon,
the "crew" was told that he had no communication with Earth due to a malfunction, but that wasn't entirely true...

Epic own-age. Heads up: HAL has seen the movie you idiots :D
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
It seems to me the company knew of the space jockey race. But their knowledge was imperfect. My best guess here is the following:

1) Prometheus: (guessing now). Disaster for the human race is averted but no clear story of what happened to the Prometheus ships survives. The company knows what they went looking for and whatever they found was dangerous but possibly extremely valuable

2) Alien: We know the crew had to set down lv-426 or not get paid due to clauses in their contracts. We know Mother was programmed to return whatever specimen was found. These two facts tell me that inside the company was still the knowledge that space jockey race was out there and invaluable. The fact that Ash was added with his orders at last minute seems to indicate someone in the company had some knowledge of something on lv-426.

When the shit hits the fan and the Nostromo never returns I'm betting the story is buried by the company. That's two ships lost for no return plus possible criminal charges.

3)Aliens: After Ripley returns Burke looks into it and decides to gamble that something valuable is out there. Enough time has passed since the company buried the Prometheus and Nostromo that no one knows about the space jockeys or aliens and that's why the colony was put there for more normal commercial means.

My speculation and summarizations...
Prometheus:
Mankind finally deciphers strange glyphs from various ancient civilizations and discovers that they are some kind of map, pointing to somewhere much further-away than mankind has ever ventured. This implies that life on Earth was somehow "seeded" by an alien race (panspermia: wiki). Weyland Corp (and Earth collectively) pours most of mankind's resources into building a massive state-of-the-art spacecraft specifically for a journey to the indicated system. They send an elite crew that includes scientists and archaeologists. They arrive on a planet which, I believe, is supposed to be in a system far-beyond the one containing LV-426. It's definitely an entirely-different planet from LV-426; one with an intelligent and advanced space-faring civilization. The Prometheus crew finds something terrifying. I assume they find that the xenomorph is a weapon, intended to wipe-out human kind. A space jockey ship departs the planet with a cargo of leathery eggs (human-adapted xenomorphs).

"It's leaving!"
"Where's it going?"
"Earth."
"If we don't stop it, there won't be any home to go back to!"

Trailers show that Prometheus catches-up with the departed alien spacecraft, then the crew saves humanity and sacrifices themselves by ramming the Prometheus into the alien ship, causing the alien ship to crash onto LV-426. This is the derelict spacecraft that is found in Alien. [edit: now that I've seen the movie, much of this speculation is confirmed and some of it inaccurate]

Alien:
The Nostromo and crew are basically "space truckers / miners," bringing massive amounts of rare mineral ore back to earth. Missions can take many years. To conserve resources and minimize aging, the crew must stay in stasis during most of the journey to-and-from Earth. The Nostromo is likely many decades old. The mineral ore is sourced so far from Earth that the Nostromo crew cannot communicate with Earth until they have traveled most of the way home. The Nostromo is equipped with an artificial intelligence named "MOTHER." MOTHER's various responsibilities include: overall mission objectives and sub-directives, navigation, keeping track of protocol minutiae, life support, etc. In some ways, MOTHER represents the company and has some amount of authority over the crew. MOTHER's directives include one that requires the crew to investigate any transmission that could be from an intelligent alien life form or another ship in-distress. Some of the crew aren't fully-aware of this requirement, even though it is stated in their contracts. MOTHER handles all vital operations while the crew is in-stasis.

While traveling home with a full load of valuable mineral ore (presumably, after being away from Earth for years). MOTHER detects an artificial beacon coming from a planet LV-426 in a relatively nearby system (still very, very far from Earth). Without waking the crew from stasis, MOTHER diverts course to take the Nostromo and crew to the system where the signal was detected. This adds many months to the time it will take to return to Earth. When the crew wakes, they initially believe they're nearing Earth. Dallas checks with MOTHER and finds out where they are and why their course was changed.

Bad things happen.

Based on various programming directives and sub-directives, MOTHER decides that the alien specimen must be brought to Earth. Unbeknownst to the rest of the Nostromo crew, Ash is actually an android, fully-beholden to MOTHER and MOTHER's decisions (because MOTHER's authority and decisions represents the company). Ash does everything in his power to ensure that MOTHER's directive is followed; while using the advantage that the rest of the crew doesn't know he's an android and they incorrectly believe he shares the same motivations they do.

More bad things happen. Everyone dies, except for Ripley and her cat. They escape in a "life boat" and drift into space, hoping for enough luck to be picked-up. The Nostromo self-destructs, destroying its valuable cargo of mineral ore. However, the alien was not destroyed and hitched a ride on Ripley's life boat. Ripley has one last encounter with the creature. She blows it into space and toasts it with the life boat's engines...she's left adrift. Ripley and Jonsey go into stasis, hoping against odds to be recovered.

Aliens:
Ripley was lucky, but it took 57 years for someone to find her drifting life boat. Everyone she ever knew is dead. The company has started terraforming and colonizing LV-426, unaware of the derelict spacecraft and its dangerous cargo in a remote area of the planet. The beacon stopped transmitting long before any prospectors or colonists arrived. The company doesn't believe Ripley's story and believes she's covering-up some kind of incompetence that led to the destruction of the Nostromo, the loss of the entire crew, and the loss of the valuable cargo. At this time, the colony has long-range communication technology installed, but it takes weeks for a transmission to arrive, and probably takes a full month to get a response. The company big-wigs demonstrate ignorance about Ripley's story, requiring her to reiterate multiple times that the planet was uninhabited and the crashed spaceship came from some other planet. Just out of curiosity, Carter Burke sends a vague message to the colony asking to investigate the coordinates where Ripley reported finding the derelict spacecraft. No warning or explanation is included. A colonist checks it out, finds the spacecraft, and is brought-back to the colony with a facehugger attached.

Bad things happen.

Carter Burke wants to bring a specimen back, and sabotages the others and their attempts to destroy it.
 
Last edited:

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,387
15,084
136
Why would MOTHER give the task to Ash the android? The company could have directly programmed Ash with that objective.

"Bring back life form. Priority One. All other priorities rescinded."

This is very clear: MOTHER made a decision based on "her" programming. Ash was there to do her bidding.

Rubbish. Someone has already said why this is rubbish - because the science officer was replaced with Ash a few days before the ship set off. The whole point of all three movies (ignoring the fourth partly because I like to pretend it doesn't exist and partly because it strayed slightly from this) is basically that you can't trust the company as far as you can throw them, because all they care about is the bottom line and they probably have so much power that they don't have to answer to anyone.

"How can you leave that kind of decision to Ash?"
"I just run the ship! Anything that has to do with the science division, Ash has the final word."
"How does that happen?"
"It happens, my dear, because that's what the company wants to happen."
"Since when is that standard procedure?"
"Standard procedure is to do whatever the hell they tell you to do."

In Aliens, when Burke is talking to Bishop about Ash, he says the android malfunctioned. Ripley incredulously says "Malfunctioned?!?", perhaps because she's paranoid about the company's role in the situation, but most likely because the films want to put the point that Ash was put there purposefully to bring back the life form, crew expendable.

In a deleted scene, Lambert plays the transmission and it's clearly not human vocalization. (click) The movie implied that the space jockey race was warning of their dangerous cargo. You think the movie implied that the transmission / warning was from other humans? Where did you get that idea?
I'm not sure where you got the idea from that I thought that. My point about "so some people were aware" was to do with the whole point that they company sent them there with the purpose of getting a sample alien life form.
 
Last edited:

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Ich: your assumption is that the company did or did not know there was a derelict ship on LV-246. I don't actually think they knew there was neither a ship or aliens at all on that planet. They just knew a general area that prometheus was sent or that there was a signal coming from that system.

Everything about how things are handled points that they knew something was out there and were taking steps to intersect if they found anything. Again, it's just a movie, and it's left a bit to interpretation.

But...

Read this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/faq#.2.1.2
 
Last edited:

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Ich: your assumption is that the company did or did not know there was a derelict ship on LV-246. I don't actually think they knew there was neither a ship or aliens at all on that planet. They just knew a general area that prometheus was sent or that there was a signal coming from that system.

Everything about how things are handled points that they knew something was out there and were taking steps to intersect if they found anything. Again, it's just a movie, and it's left a bit to interpretation.

But...

Read this:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078748/faq#.2.1.2

I don't see a source on that fact. Seems to me that Ash had two purposes: 1) to see if this new class of android can work with humans (at least 1 android per crew would eventually become a standard practice), and 2) to ensure the company's interests in ways that MOTHER could not.

The company did know there was intelligent life somewhere in that side of the universe (Alien did happen after Prometheus); that's why they had these directives and that's why the crew was supposed to be aware of them.

It just doesn't make sense that they'd send a bunch of unprepared space truckers when they had previously built a state-of-the-art spacecraft (Prometheus) and staffed it with the best and brightest at some point many years earlier.

Why send the space truckers with some newfangled (and possibly unpredictable) android and an expensive haul? Why not assemble a team, brief them, and send them directly there?
 
Last edited:

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,387
15,084
136
I don't see a source on that fact. Seems to me that Ash had two purposes: 1) to see if this new class of android can work with humans (at least 1 android per crew would eventually become a standard practice), and 2) to ensure the company's interests in ways that MOTHER could not.

The company did know there was intelligent life somewhere in that side of the universe (Alien did happen after Prometheus); that's why they had these directives and that's why the crew was supposed to be aware of them.

It just doesn't make sense that they'd send a bunch of unprepared space truckers when they had previously built a state-of-the-art spacecraft (Prometheus) and staffed it with the best and brightest at some point many years earlier.

Why send the space truckers with some newfangled (and possily unpredictable) android and an expensive haul? Why not assemble a team, brief them, and send them directly there?

Possibly for the same reason as Burke used in Aliens:

Burke: Look, those two specimens are worth millions to the bio-weapons division, right? Now, if you're smart, we can both come out of it as heroes, and we will be set up for life.
Ripley: You're crazy, Burke, you know that? You really think you can get a dangerous organism like that past ICC quarantine?
Burke: How can they impound it if they don't know about it?
Ripley: Oh, but they will know about it, Burke. From me. Just like they'll know that you were responsible for the death of 157 colonists!
Burke: Wait a second—
Ripley: You sent them to that ship!
Burke: You're wrong!
Ripley
: I just checked the colony log, directive dated 6/12/79, signed Burke, Carter J. You sent them out there and you didn't even warn them! Why didn't you warn them, Burke?
Burke: Okay, look. What if that ship didn't even exist? Did you ever think about that? I didn't know! So now, if I went and made a major security situation out of it, everybody steps in. Administration steps in, and there are no exclusive rights for anybody; nobody wins. So I made a decision, and it was wrong. It was a bad call, Ripley. It was a bad call.

There are limits to what the company can pull off if they want to keep a secret, I would suppose. Although I would have thought that the less people who die, the easier to explain it would be.
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
2 things i loved about aliens:

80's suit made incredibly spacey with a flip of the collar
carterburke.jpg


and, total lack of economic inflation (is it massive deflation?)
 

HAL9000

Lifer
Oct 17, 2010
22,021
3
76
Let's play follow the logic trail.

The entirety of the conversation is posted above so you don't have to skip around.

In post 1 CZroe makes a FALSE statement. I have color-highlight the false staement so you can easily find it.

In post 2 I assert my belief that the statement is FALSE.

In post 3 Ichinisan asks me what I mean.

In post 4 I explain that what I mean is self-evident.

In post 5 Ichnisian not only agrees with CZroe, but elaborates on his agreement with a bunch of senseless speculation about a film that has not even been released yet- senseless because, even if the part about the "Space Jockey's" ship or the location of the planets is correct, it is irrelevant to my assertion that "The Company" (yes I know the name they gave it in the retarded sequel) knew exactly where they were sending the Nostromo, and to what end they would come, making the complete lack of a 40MP facepaml pic quite irritating.

Okay, got it?

Well that was a pile of retarded drivel you just typed.

Also. Alien is set on LV-426 and Prometheus is set on LV-223.

Next?
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
I need to watch the entire quadrology again before I see Prometheus. I'm really surprised this wasn't a book.

I watched the entire quadrilogy in anticipation for Prometheus and I really regret watching Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection. Skip them both. Watch only Alien (1979) and Aliens (1986). I watched the "Directors Cut" versions.
 

Saint Nick

Lifer
Jan 21, 2005
17,722
6
81
Ichi I'll keep that in mind. Was talking to the roomies last night and I think we decided to skip on Alien3 and A:R
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Yet, I am correct.

You were incorrect about LV-426. The company didn't know there was anything on that planet.
It was in the same system as LV-223, the planet in Prometheus (a plot point that I do not find to be believable).

One of my quotes from before I watched Prometheus:

The company did know there was intelligent life somewhere in that side of the universe (Alien did happen after Prometheus); that's why they had these directives and that's why the crew was supposed to be aware of them.

It just doesn't make sense that they'd send a bunch of unprepared space truckers when they had previously built a state-of-the-art spacecraft (Prometheus) and staffed it with the best and brightest at some point many years earlier.
 
Last edited:

m1ldslide1

Platinum Member
Feb 20, 2006
2,321
0
0
Alien 3 did suck.

MotionMan

Nonsense! It was a totally different movie than Aliens, just like Aliens was a totally different movie than Alien. A3 is super sweet in its own dark, hopeless kind of way. Plus Chuck Dutton is a badass.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,235
136
Nonsense! It was a totally different movie than Aliens, just like Aliens was a totally different movie than Alien. A3 is super sweet in its own dark, hopeless kind of way. Plus Chuck Dutton is a badass.

I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago (on Blu-Ray). You are absolutely, 100% wrong. Alien3 is complete garbage.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,387
15,084
136
I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago (on Blu-Ray). You are absolutely, 100% wrong. Alien3 is complete garbage.

What about Alien Resurrection? I'd reserve the "complete garbage" title for 4, not 3. There simply is no compelling reason whatsoever for me to watch it again.

Alien3 is like the Godfather Pt.3 - if films were in competitive leagues, with Alien, Aliens, Godfather 1 & 2 all in the masterpiece league, A3 or G3 are at least two leagues below. They concluded the trilogy, ok-ish. Matrix 3 is at least another league below A3 or G3 :)

I'd put A4 and M3 in the same bin.. I mean league. :) The one with the title "if someone buys me this as a present, they don't know me very well" :)

Separate question - I have Alien and Aliens on DVD. I also have two 1080p screens (my monitor and my TV). Is it worth having the quadrilogy? Personally I find Alien perfectly watchable in its current format, but Aliens is horrendously grainy. I looked at stills on a Blu-ray review site, but stills can be quite deceiving, one way or the other.

One other thing that makes me hesitate in getting Blu-ray movies is that I don't have a Blu-ray reader drive in my PC. I do have a Blu-ray player however.
 
Last edited:

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
What about Alien Resurrection? I'd reserve the "complete garbage" title for 4, not 3. There simply is no compelling reason whatsoever for me to watch it again.

Alien3 is like the Godfather Pt.3 - if films were in competitive leagues, with Alien, Aliens, Godfather 1 & 2 all in the masterpiece league, A3 or G3 are at least two leagues below. They concluded the trilogy, ok-ish. Matrix 3 is at least another league below A3 or G3 :)

I'd put A4 and M3 in the same bin.. I mean league. :) The one with the title "if someone buys me this as a present, they don't know me very well" :)

Separate question - I have Alien and Aliens on DVD. I also have two 1080p screens (my monitor and my TV). Is it worth having the quadrilogy? Personally I find Alien perfectly watchable in its current format, but Aliens is horrendously grainy. I looked at stills on a Blu-ray review site, but stills can be quite deceiving, one way or the other.

One other thing that makes me hesitate in getting Blu-ray movies is that I don't have a Blu-ray reader drive in my PC. I do have a Blu-ray player however.

The Blu-Ray transfer of Alien is astounding. I was blown away actually at how good it looks. Aliens looks good but I don't know if it's eye popping better like Alien is. The other 2 are personal choice if you want them, personally I like them all in one way or another, but I watch the Alien the most, then Aliens. The best reason to get the qualdriology is for Alien and the hours upon hours of extra content if you're into that. It's only like $40.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
126
I watched it for the first time a few weeks ago (on Blu-Ray). You are absolutely, 100% wrong. Alien3 is complete garbage.

It's his opinion. Obviously you disagree, as you've already said this many times already. Stop being an ass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.