'Purple heart bandages' spark Dems' ire

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I'm not following. They are mocking the medals won by Kerry in Vietnam. It is not a "gesture". Please explain to me how marginalizing Kerry's medals is not an attack on his medals?

Exactly how are they "mocking" the medals? The guy made a bad mistake. But hardly is he "mocking" or "attacking" the medals. I would expect something a little more extreme out of him like "tossing" the medals or "spitting" on them.

Oh wait.................

It's not an attack on Kerry's medals, it's an attack on every veteran who ever earned a Purple Heart. It says that a Purple Heart can be awarded for nothing but a self-inflicted scratch, a spit in the face to brave men who earned their medal by losing an arm, a leg, or an eye, or are stuck in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives. Kerry's injuries may not have been as serious, but the Army decided they serious enough, and that puts him in the same room with those brave men.

As for what Kerry may have done with his medals, they were his to do as he chose. He may mock them, no one else can -- although I doubt you'll understand that simple truth.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Wow - way to spin up a picture.:roll: No one endorsed or approved those band-aids and you know it. So why don't you all pull your panties from the twist they are in and realize that it wasn't the party who did this. I said it wasn't appropriate and I don't support ANYONE doing such a thing, however - I also don't and won't support someone who renounces the symbols their country gave them and then tries to campaign on those symbols. Did he deserve them? Maybe - but he renounced them so the question of whether or not he was deserving of them is moot.

Oh, and you better check your own partisanship there DM

CsG

The people involved in these incidents are REPUBLICANS, Cad. Ones that are ACTIVELY involved in the campaign. In this case, Blackwell is a DELEGATE -- one who I've read has been to quite a few RNCs in the past. Not only that, Blackwell is a long-time Republican activist and president of the Leadership Group (a conservative group). Check out Blackwell's bio:

His institute prepares conservatives for success in politics, government and the news media. Over the years the Leadership Institute has trained more than 35,000 students. It currently has revenue of $7 million per year and a staff of 47.

In youth politics, Mr. Blackwell was a College Republican state chairman and a Young Republican state chairman in Louisiana.

He served on the Young Republican National Committee for more than a dozen years, rising to the position of Young Republican National Federation national vice chairman at large.

Off and on for five years, 1965-1970, he worked as executive director of the College Republican National Committee under four consecutive College Republican national chairmen.

He served on the Louisiana Republican state central committee for eight years.

He?s now in his 28th year on the Arlington County (Virginia) Republican Committee, his 15th year as a member of the Virginia Republican state central committee and his 14th year as Virginia?s Republican National Committeeman

Having worked actively in politics for more than forty years, he has probably trained more political activists than any other conservative. Starting in the 1960?s, he has trained thousands of people who have served on staff for Republican candidates in every state.

Mr. Blackwell was Barry Goldwater?s youngest elected delegate to the 1964 Republican National Convention in San Francisco.

He was a national convention Alternate Delegate for Ronald Reagan in 1968 and 1976, and a Ronald Reagan Delegate at the 1980 national convention.

In 1980, he organized and oversaw the national youth effort for Ronald Reagan.

He served as Special Assistant to the President on President Reagan?s White House Staff 1981-1984.

Mr. Blackwell is something of a specialist in matters relating to the rules of the Republican Party.

He served on rules committees of the state Republican parties in Louisiana and in Virginia. He serves now on the RNC?s Standing Committee on Rules and has attended every meeting of the Republican National Conventions? Rules Committees since 1972.

Fact is Cad, this guy IS the Republican party. I don't give a rat's ass if Gillespie OK'd it or not. This is clearly yet another case of a prominent Republican (a delegate nonetheless) representing the party and making a complete ass of himself.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Vic
Very, very poor taste on the part of the Republicans, and an insult to every soldier who ever earned a Purple Heart. Yet one more reason why I will NOT be voting for Bush.

And what gets me is that some of you have the nerve to call Bush-supporters sheep, then post drivel like this. In that case, I'll not vote for Kerry, as some whacked, anti-Bush protestor attacted a police officer at the RNC protests. He obviously was working directly for Kerry and represents the entire Democrat Party. :roll:

The whole purple heart fiasco IS a shame and IS stupid, but to use that as a reason not to vote for a candidate is simply moronic. That's like saying all babies should be killed, because of the dispicable actions of extreme pro-life activists. Try to think for yourselves, especially if you are going to call others "brainwashed sheep."

Spot on. Very well said.

Originally posted by: Vic
First, learn to read -- "Yet one more reason". Not the only reason, moron. Crash and burn on the spin attempt there.

Second, I'm a conservative. Against Bush. Explain to me how I'm not thinking for myself.

He said 'but to use that as a reason', not the reason.

 

[Genx87]

You are on a fringe if you really think this guy handing those things out says all the vietnam vets who earned medals mean nothing. It is an obvious slam on Kerry by a lone delegate. Sometimes the world is not as cynical as you would wish for.

But I doubt you'll understand the simple truth.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
He said 'but to use that as a reason', not the reason.

I compile thousands of reasons. Hardly as foolish as voting on a single issue IMO.

Sometimes the world is not as cynical as you would wish for.

You're right. It's more cynical. Play it down all you want. Spin your fanboi. I suggest checking the letters to the editor section in your daily newspaper. Veterans and their families are saying just what I posted, and they are pissed. 5 e-mailed into my paper to make this morning's edition already, I expect more to follow.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

He said 'but to use that as a reason', not the reason.

Bah, don't try to argue too much, Cyclo. Some of these guys can only see spin where there is none, but they want to see it, but never see the obvious in thier own posts. The blindly cling to an ideal they don't even fully understand, and lash out at any attempt to point out flaws in logic or thoughts. They are truly sheep, bleating the same, tired, "anyone but Bush, but for what reasons, I don't know."

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot
Your not speaking for this vet.
It took courage to voulenteer and fight in viet nam. It took greater courage to take a stand against the political spineless asshole politicians that tried to keep the war going so to line pockets of their constituancy, at the peril of our nations solders and the destruction of South Viet Nam. If you can't remember that time period, then you will repeat it.

if kerry had joined up for the purpose of going into combat you would have a point. however kerry himself said he did not expect(or want) combat duty. he got it anyway and really made the most of the 4 months he was there.

kerry has pulled the wool over your eyes. when it was politically expedient to be for the vietnam war he was for it, when it was popular to be against it he was against it, pretending to throw his medals over a fence(even then fooling the sheep showing then how deceptive he was and still is) at a demonstration. now it is popular to be a "war hero" and those medals he supposedly disdained so much as to throw them away he is "proud" to have gotten.

kerry is an elitest that was raised in that same constituancy you mention and is even now a part of it who did his best to emulate his hero the "other" JFK and went to vietnam to glory hunt, he stayed long enough to BS his way into some medals and skipped out after the got them ASAP to continue his true calling, politics.

Originally posted by: TripleshotEver hear of Kent State? 4 dead in Ohio? Then you would know why Kerry stood up to the war machinery.

I salute him for his courage, under real fire and the BS of the right wing radical pukes.

ever hear of the montagnyards? they are the victims of the vietnemese policy of genocide. hundreds of thousands are dead, are all the leftists proud a whole ethnic group of people are being eliminated since the US left?

i do not salute komrade kerry the poser, he is a disgrace to all the true heroes that served and still do.

i would like to spit in his face and say "now you know what it feels like...betrayer"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
He said 'but to use that as a reason', not the reason.

Bah, don't try to argue too much, Cyclo. Some of these guys can only see spin where there is none, but they want to see it, but never see the obvious in thier own posts. The blindly cling to an ideal they don't even fully understand, and lash out at any attempt to point out flaws in logic or thoughts. They are truly sheep, bleating the same, tired, "anyone but Bush, but for what reasons, I don't know."

Did you ask me what I know, asshole? No, you assumed in order to attempt to baselessly attack me.

Why is very, very simple.

Let's begin:
- budget deficits hastening the impending fiscal insolvency of the US
- tax cuts with budget spending increases, see above
- expensive and unnecessary military actions against sovereign nations without internation sanction
- attacks on the Constitution like USA PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Defense Act
- corruption to feed the energy and military-industrial complexes, resulting in major wealth re-distribution during his term
- poor economic and domestic leadership
- blatant yet horrifically failed attempt to take control of and socialize public and private schooling on the federal level

Need I go on?

The worst thing about every election for me is that my only choice is between a socialist and a fascist, and you dipsh!t fanbois can't see that obvious fact for their own spin.
Listen carefully, you are the sheep -- you do and think as you are told. The attack on Kerry's military service by the neocons and the Republicans, who claim to respect military service, is just one more example. That you think like that, and call me a sheep, is another example. It ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Jhhnn]

From Genx87-

"You are on a fringe if you really think this guy handing those things out says all the vietnam vets who earned medals mean nothing. It is an obvious slam on Kerry by a lone delegate. Sometimes the world is not as cynical as you would wish for."

I suppose that if Blackwell were the only one wearing such a thing, that you'd have a legitimate point. They were, however quite popular and readily available, by all accounts, which says something entirely different. If anything, it reinforces the contention of thoughtless follow the herd mentality among Republicans in general. If national delegates can't rub two brain cells together hard enough to figure this one out, then what does that say for the rank and file? No wonder they're quite so unified, so lacking in real diversity of thought- it's because they mostly just follow...

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Vic

Did you ask me what I know, asshole? No, you assumed in order to attempt to baselessly attack me.

Why is very, very simple.

[snip - stuff irrelevant to the topic at hand]

Need I go on?

*chuckle* You said one of the reasons you weren't voting for Bush was because some jackass made a mockery of the purple heart medal outside the RNC. I pointed out that it was assinine to associate this moron directly to Bush and to use that as a reason against Bush. If you feel like that's a baseless attack, so be it. You'll not see me calling you childish names..

The worst thing about every election for me is that my only choice is between a socialist and a fascist, and you dipsh!t fanbois can't see that obvious fact for their own spin.
Listen carefully, you are the sheep -- you do and think as you are told. The attack on Kerry's military service by the neocons and the Republicans, who claim to respect military service, is just one more example. That you think like that, and call me a sheep, is another example. It ain't just a river in Egypt.

But you are the sheep. You've had it drilled into you that anyone who disagrees with you is a brainwashed puppet of the right. It's hillarious that you believe that I do as I'm told, despite the fact that I've never heard anyone screaming 'Vote Libertarian' in my ear. You are simply following the anti-Bush chant. I'm not even voting for the man, but since I defended him from your apparent lack of logical reasoning, you automatically threw me into your little 'conservative/neocon' holding pen. You are following the 'Anyone But Bush' manual to the letter, yet claim you are a free-thinking individual. Who is in denial here?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you

:roll:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you

:roll:

Ah, now you bring out the blatently false quotes and misdirection. "Baa, baaa," goes the sheep.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Train
ok anyone who hasn't called GW a chimp may get angry about this.

go ahead, search P&N for "Chimp" surprise, 3 pages of threads!

Why would anyone get angry about calling GWB a chimp? He looks like one, he acts like one, and I can only assume he smells like one. What's the problem with that?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you

:roll:

Ah, now you bring out the blatently false quotes and misdirection. "Baa, baaa," goes the sheep.

Justifiable paraphrasing IMO. I make a valid argument, answer your questions, you spout the same ad hominem.

 

[Infohawk]

The Republicans at the convention need to shut up and support our troops. They can do this by not questioning Kerry's service to this country. Thanks.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: Vic

Justifiable paraphrasing IMO. I make a valid argument, answer your questions, you spout the same ad hominem.

You know, if you could carry a rational discourse, I'd be more likely to pursue this further. As it stands, however, you have chosen to resort to name calling, intentional misquotes, and other useless tactics.

Perhaps we should begin fresh:

1) You made a valid argument.

Where was this? You mean this: "Very, very poor taste on the part of the Republicans, and an insult to every soldier who ever earned a Purple Heart. Yet one more reason why I will NOT be voting for Bush." ? You call that a 'valid argument'? This whole discussion is about my disagreeing with that obviously illogical statement.

2) You answered my questions.

What questions did I ask? I pointed out the folly of your 'valid argument" and the hypocrisy of calling non anti-Bush "sheep." My only "question" came several post later when I asked you "Who is in denial here?" And you still haven't answered that.

3) I spout the same ad hominem.

Which one is that? The one where I called you an 'asshole'? No, that was you. The one where I called you a 'dipsh!t fanboi'? No, again, that was you. Perhaps you mean the one where I call you a brainwashed, unthinking sheep of the anti-Bush camp? Yep. Guilty. But then again, you haven't been able to deny this with anything you've posted.

Try defending your original post without resorting to immature tactics and without spouting unrelated rhetoric about Bush. Can you do it? If not, I shall simply mark you as a troll and ignore you from here on.

 

[Vic]

Shut up. There is a difference between ad hominem attacks and treating an obtuse idiot in the manner that he brings upon himself and rightly deserves. What you mistake from me as being the former is in fact the latter.
To answer what you seem unable to understand, it is "one more reason" in the same vein that that the rest of the reasons I named above are "one more reason(s)". When Bush condemns this action, then I will change my opinion (in this regard only, I doubt he cares), but until he does so I can only believe that he supports what took place right on the convention floor of his party.
As for the logic, Kerry did not award himself the Purple Heart(s). The Army did. Through the same process that the Army awards every other Purple Heart. To insult the manner in which one soldier is awarded the Purple Heart is to insult the manner is which all soldiers are awarded.

 

[cKGunslinger]

Try defending your original post without resorting to immature tactics and without spouting unrelated rhetoric about Bush. Can you do it? If not, I shall simply mark you as a troll and ignore you from here on

Originally posted by: Vic
Shut up.

Ah, troll it is! Moving on..

 

[IndieSnob]

Vic a troll? Ha ha. Even though I disagree with Vic's views from time to time, he is hardly brain-washed nor uninformed of what he speaks. I find that people that I disagree with on some core things that can at least back them up with substinance are people I'd rather listen to, and that's someone like Vic. Maybe you're the troll?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: IndieSnob
Vic a troll? Ha ha. Even though I disagree with Vic's views from time to time, he is hardly brain-washed nor uninformed of what he speaks. I find that people that I disagree with on some core things that can at least back them up with substinance are people I'd rather listen to, and that's someone like Vic. Maybe you're the troll?

I'm not accusing anyone of being a troll, but thank you for the words of support. I do my best to speak my own independent mind, with the foreknowledge that not everyone will agree with it and that some will even be offended. Such is life. I do enjoy the debates though.

 

[ciba]

I don?t see how this is an attack on all Purple Hearts. I see the band-aids as an attack on someone who would use a band-aid wound as justification for a Purple Heart. People wearing the band-aids are showing that they believe a higher standard should be in place for awarding a Purple Heart. While this standard shouldn't be officially applied, Kerry having a Purple Heart for a band-aid wound belittles all veterans who earned Purple Hearts for wounds that forever shape their lives.

 

[Moonbeam]

Vic: Very, very poor taste on the part of the Republicans, and an insult to every soldier who ever earned a Purple Heart. Yet one more reason why I will NOT be voting for Bush.

Let me see if I get this. I assume you find the purple heart bandages offensive. I assume that because they were part of the Republican convention they are at least tacitly approved of by Bush and or his people and that therefore you find them offensive too. I'm further assuming that you are adding this offense to a list of other objections to the Bush Adm. as one more reason you aren't voting for them. I'm assuming too that if a person finds a party offensive that is not only a reason not to vote for them, but a good reason not to. And if I were a betting man I would wager that you don't much care that gunslinger thinks your feelings are irrational. I spose it could even be said that not to be offended by what is offensive is irrational.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Let me see if I get this. I assume you find the purple heart bandages offensive. I assume that because they were part of the Republican convention they are at least tacitly approved of by Bush and or his people and that therefore you find them offensive too. I'm further assuming that you are adding this offense to a list of other objections to the Bush Adm. as one more reason you aren't voting for them. I'm assuming too that if a person finds a party offensive that is not only a reason not to vote for them, but a good reason not to. And if I were a betting man I would wager that you don't much care that gunslinger thinks your feelings are irrational. I spose it could even be said that not to be offended by what is offensive is irrational.

:beer:

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: IndieSnob
Vic a troll? Ha ha. Even though I disagree with Vic's views from time to time, he is hardly brain-washed nor uninformed of what he speaks. I find that people that I disagree with on some core things that can at least back them up with substinance are people I'd rather listen to, and that's someone like Vic. Maybe you're the troll?

*shrug* Believe what you want. If you want to think that someone who quickly turns to personal insults and uses phrases such as "asshole," "dipsh!t fanboi," and "shut up" is "backing them up with substinance" and "people you'd rather listen to" then go ahead. I can't make judgements on him personally, but I can infer from this single thread that his persona here is uninformed, misguided, and a terrible debater. But that's just MHO.

 

[outriding]

What I think is even funnier is the fact that EVERYBODY currently in the White House doesnt even deserve these "bandaides".

In my eyes they just put themselves even lower than they were already.