Unless new information comes to light, or unless any unscheduled witnesses come forward/the house subpoenas and they actually say yes, then correct. Next step would be to vote after deliberating/digesting.
The upcoming ruling in the McGahn case may shake loose more witnesses as may action from the SDNY.
I hope there's a way to put a spotlight on the obstruction. This is the most obvious part of things to me and seems quite a slideshow here. I know they can easily make it an article of impeachment listing a whole lot of facts and have it more aggressively pursued at trial in Senate, but it's not a courtroom. Although I am very glad Justice Roberts will be the one enforcing the rules, it is still up to the Senate to make up those rules. I fully expect them to go full steam ahead with the sideshow precluded to some degree by the House inquiry.
Brainonska511
Lifer
- Dec 10, 2005
- 29,693
- 15,288
- 136
I see Trump accusing a witness of lying under oath. That witness should look into those libel laws Trump is always going on about...
MomentsofSanity
Lifer
- Jan 25, 2011
- 17,188
- 9,724
- 146
All the career foreign service officials who testified under oath are lying. All the political appointees who refuse to swear an oath are telling the truth.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 16,145
- 8,740
- 136
Ass, brain, soul, in him it all reeks of yer typical Repub partisan hack committing an act of butchery on the Constitution and the Rule of Law.
They all have no shame, no honor, no ethics and morals to stand on. They gave it all up in order to keep their pathological liar of a president seated in the Oval Office of which now needs to be burned to ground and rebuilt in order to get rid of the stench Trump permeated the place with.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,994
- 31,558
- 146
This is basically what you have to convince yourself of if you live in Dumbfuckistan--a.k.a. GOP braintrust world.
nOOky
Diamond Member
- Aug 17, 2004
- 3,320
- 2,418
- 136
Only one article I've seen so far but...
Trump approval has dropped overall by about 1-2 points since impeachment scandal began.
Politics News | Breaking Political News, Video & Analysis-ABC News
ABC News is your trusted source on political news stories and videos. Get the latest coverage and analysis on everything from the Trump presidency, Senate, House and Supreme Court.
It's interesting to see how badly people are trying to shoehorn the Clinton impeachment narrative into this though, probably because that's the only other impeachment the media has been around for.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 16,145
- 8,740
- 136
From a broader outlook at that, the dumbfuckery that many of Trump's loyalists have shown is their ignorance, willingly or otherwise, of how the "establishment" that they so despised and hated and thereby selected Trump to get rid of is the same "establishment" they've managed to ramp up on barrels full of 'roids by voting into power one of, and more likely THE worst example of the "establishment" his supporters were trying to get rid of.
Worse still, their blind hatred of the "establishment" induced them into believing every lie and empty "campaign promise" that came out of Trump's pie hole.
They now have and earnestly support the very "establishment" they reviled pre-Trump but only because it's the "establishment" they voted for.
They gave birth to a monster run amok but they love it and let it be as "establishment" as it likes because it's of their own making.
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
- 25,715
- 10,471
- 136
They’re waiting for the Senate trial to end on a ”nay” vote, and then I’m sure they’ll all be in here crowing and swooning over their Teflon Don.
Yes, Sondland said he acted at the express direction of Trump. Trump is 100% directly implicated.
I think the idea some people are clinging to is that because Trump gave his orders through Giuliani that it somehow means he isn’t implicated. Lots of mob bosses in prison today would disagree. The level of bad faith here by republicans is off the charts. Complaining about no testimony about Trump directing this personally while actively blocking the testimony from anyone who could say it.
Although really it doesn’t matter anyway as Republicans don’t actually care if there is a valid defense of Trump or not because they long ago learned there wasn’t. They have decided if ignoring the president enlisting foreign powers to rig the election is what it takes to stay in power then that’s a price they are willing to pay.
Haha yes this will definitely happen. They will declare the senate not convicting him as an exoneration. When asked to show how the evidence supports this conclusion they will refuse.
Listening to Hill's testimony, I thought initially that Dr. Hill was trying to deflect blame away from Trump in those quotes. "Don't you see? This [impeachment hearing] is exactly what they want! You're playing into their hands!" As though we should all ignore what Trump did for the good of the country. Or...she's saying, "Trump is such a fucking idiot that HE played right into Putin's hands and the resulting chaos and divisiveness is exactly what Putin wanted." IOW Putin played the Trump/Guliani like a fucking Stradivarius.
After reading every word of her closed door testimony...IMO this is exactly what she is saying.
This was engineered by Russia. The Ukrainian conspiracy theory and the documents Rudy had been waving around are Russian disinformation. Fruman and Parnas are Russian agents.
The Russia / Ukraine war is serious high stakes endeavor and the energy security of Western Europe is at stake. Getting the US to waiver in their support of Ukraine is a key foreign policy goal of Russia. People don’t think of Russia as a petrostate, but, as far as I know... it is the worlds second largest oil exporter (behind Saudi Arabia) and the largest natural gas exporter.
It’s about so much more than that phone call. One of the goals of the Trump/Giuliani scheme was to replace the board of directors at Naftogaz, another Ukrainian gas company. This change was being pushed by Rudy Giuliani and the two Russian agents.
This may be where the story is, because US foreign policy actively encourages Ukrainian companies to put Westerners on their boards, it’s part of the effort to clean up corruption by strengthening corporate governance. If Trump and Giuliani were looking to subvert that by plotting to put “friends of Putin” on the board, I'm sure that might be a high crime.
After reading every word of her closed door testimony...IMO this is exactly what she is saying.
This was engineered by Russia. The Ukrainian conspiracy theory and the documents Rudy had been waving around are Russian disinformation. Fruman and Parnas are Russian agents.
The Russia / Ukraine war is serious high stakes endeavor and the energy security of Western Europe is at stake. Getting the US to waiver in their support of Ukraine is a key foreign policy goal of Russia. People don’t think of Russia as a petrostate, but, as far as I know... it is the worlds second largest oil exporter (behind Saudi Arabia) and the largest natural gas exporter.
It’s about so much more than that phone call. One of the goals of the Trump/Giuliani scheme was to replace the board of directors at Naftogaz, another Ukrainian gas company. This change was being pushed by Rudy Giuliani and the two Russian agents.
This may be where the story is, because US foreign policy actively encourages Ukrainian companies to put Westerners on their boards, it’s part of the effort to clean up corruption by strengthening corporate governance. If Trump and Giuliani were looking to subvert that by plotting to put “friends of Putin” on the board, I'm sure that might be a high crime.
I'm clearly completely out of touch with reality as it is defined by the 99%, because I cannot fathom how people can possibly support impeachment less given what's come to light. It's completely unfathomable to me and I'll have borderline given up hope on the preservation of our democracy if more polls reflect the same sentiment.
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,256
- 136
These types of arguments are scary as hell and need to be bitch slapped down.It's not looking good for Trump-
Judge chides DOJ for trying to block star Mueller witness testimony
The judge's ruling could impact other court battles over Democrats’ attempts to subpoena reluctant witnesses in its Ukraine impeachment inquiry.www.politico.com
Trump will appeal, of course, but it may not stop some of them from flipping.
538 shows the support for impeaching Trump nosedive
Do Americans Support Impeaching Trump?
FiveThirtyEight is tracking polls that ask whether respondents support impeaching President Trump.
Poll finds sharp swing in opposition to impeachment among independents
A new national survey finds independent voters leading a sharp swing in opposition to impeachment, the second major poll to produce those findings this week.The latest national poll from Emerson Co…
thehill.com
Obviously the hearings are compelling, and show a multitude of crimes but I think there are a number of us here who have suspected that what we, and the average 'Merikun sees are probably two different things.
I don't necessarily think Trump is really that popular with independents, but by going on offense, the Democrats have made themselves look like the partisans. Obviously that's not how you or I see it. I see it as protecting rule of law and outing a criminal in the White House.
But..there's a simmering distrust and resentment among white working class independents of highly educated civil servants with degrees from Georgetown, Harvard, and Yale. It's that age-old "You think yer better 'n me?!" factor at work. It matters little or none what they actually say; the testimony doesn't seem to be sticking to Trump in many peoples minds. Instead, when they see the spectacle play out on TV, it just reminds the average person how disconnected they are from the process.
When I look at the civil servants testifying against the threats of their careers and even their personal safety, I see bravery. I see people putting their careers on the line to protect the country against the corruption of people who are above their pay grades. The might see themselves as the last line of defense against tyranny and corruption by criminals in our government.
But I don't think that's how a lot of the country sees them. Although I don't think that these people view this as a witch hunt; To them..it probably is difficult to separate these hearings from the Benghazi show that Trey Gowdy put on a few years ago. Cynically, a byproduct of Republicans gone authoritarian is that they've destroyed the entire credibility of congressional oversight, because we just assume that it's partisan anytime it involves a majority party investigating something that the opposition party has done. The fact that the allegations are serious and have merit gets lost in the vortex of the storm.
Our fellow citizens have outsourced their civic duty. To them..If the economy is rolling, you can't impeach an incumbent president.
I don't think we are going to get much mileage out of impeachment. The most important witness will be the economy in 2020. That's how we judge presidents now. They can be as corrupt as they want. They can enrich themselves as much as they want. They can sell out vital national interests as much as they want. They can bankrupt social security and medicare. Many people in this God damned country don't seem to care.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
Yeah, and I don't like the push to be over quickly when there is 0.0% chance of conviction.
The speed at which new scandal moves in this admin, impeachment will be old news by Nov and they will have had 8-9 mos to spin and bullshit.
Hell, he could start another interference scheme on that time and Ds won't be able to come back to the well after losing the Senate vote
Zorba
Lifer
- Oct 22, 1999
- 15,613
- 11,256
- 136
The problem is you assume the republicans are operating in good faith.
Then what the fuck is the point of electing a representative? We may as well go full-on democracy if so many members of this country don't trust those elected to actually be better at this than they would be. That's the whole goddamn point of electing a representative, they're good at it!
I swear to FSM, as with all other things, the worst thing about this country is the people that inhabit it.
Bitek
Lifer
- Aug 2, 2001
- 10,676
- 5,239
- 136
I don't understand it either, but my suspicions would be the recession fears have wained a bit and the market finally began moving back up.
This leads we to conclude conservatives don't give a shit about democracy, accountability and rule of law, and it's only ever about the money.
I understand that most people have a vested interest in numero uno, but I'd imagine the same people that don't really care/follow impeachment proceedings probably don't care/follow the markets. As long as day-to-day needs are met, they're good, and the rest is old rich white dudes doing old rich white dude shit. So who the hell is currently changing their minds? the 5% of 'independents' who are easily swayed by Republican talking points?
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