Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,700
136
That's obvious, I'm just curious what his actual reasoning is behind it being impeachable. If only for grotesque curiosity.

He appears to be arguing that the president acting in foreign policy with concern to his own domestic political fortunes is what Trump was impeached for, which is comically wrong, although I suspect that's what right wing media has been claiming.

Trump was impeached for soliciting illegal campaign help from a foreign power in the form of investigations into his political opponents. He solicited this bribe by illegally withholding aid money to them. This is not complicated.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,250
16,474
146
He appears to be arguing that the president acting in foreign policy with concern to his own domestic political fortunes is what Trump was impeached for, which is comically wrong, although I suspect that's what right wing media has been claiming.

Trump was impeached for soliciting illegal campaign help from a foreign power in the form of investigations into his political opponents. He solicited this bribe by illegally withholding aid money to them. This is not complicated.
That's lunacy. It's a kin to stating that someone saying 'let me pay you back when I get my paycheck in' is identical to robbing a bank.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
I assume you're referring to the conversation I'm reading about regarding missile defense, and I assume misc other concerns? Based on reading, Obama told Medvedev (and subsequently passed on to Putin since he was coming back into power at that point) to give him space until post-election to talk about/work through defense concerns, more de-escalations, etc.

In what way does that appear to be impeachable to you? I'm genuinely curious how you're finding this comparable to Trump actually engaging with Ukraine to find dirt on his political ally?

It's what I said earlier. He was negotiating directly with our biggest enemy to work a deal whereby he could get re-elected, and then do their bidding (cancelling the joint American-European missile defense shield). Doing it before-hand would jeopardize his re-election. He suborned US security interests, and that of our allies, to his political ambition.

Once he was re-elected, he did exactly that.

One would think by the new standards of removal this would rank up there.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,375
16,766
136
It's what I said earlier. He was negotiating directly with our biggest enemy to work a deal whereby he could get re-elected, and then do their bidding (cancelling the joint American-European missile defense shield). Doing it before-hand would jeopardize his re-election. He suborned US security interests, and that of our allies, to his political ambition.

One would think by the new standards of removal this would rank up there.

Lol wut? He was negotiating with our enemy to get re-elected? Please tell us what he was asking Russia to do that was going to help him get re-elected.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,556
30,053
136
It's what I said earlier. He was negotiating directly with our biggest enemy to work a deal whereby he could get re-elected, and then do their bidding (cancelling the joint American-European missile defense shield). Doing it before-hand would jeopardize his re-election. He suborned US security interests, and that of our allies, to his political ambition.

One would think by the new standards of removal this would rank up there.

How do you manage to put your pants on in the morning?

And back to talking about Trump (the actual subject of this thread). How do you feel about him using the national prayer breakfast as a venue to air his grievances over impeachment. Does that seem to be the Christian thing to do?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,250
16,474
146
negotiating
How exactly was he negotiating? Both us and Russia were going through a re-election and it's pretty obvious that during that timeframe, bigass deals don't get made. Unless I'm really reading this article wrong, he wasn't 'negotiating' anything, he was just saying 'let's reengage this once we're done with elections, assuming I'm still around'. Got a link that indicates any kind of negotiation?

cancelling the joint American-European missile defense shield
What? It says right here that Russia wanted a legally binding pledge regarding its use, not that it be cancelled.
But Moscow says it fears the system could weaken Russia by gaining the capability to shoot down the nuclear missiles it relies on as a deterrent.

It wants a legally binding pledge from the United States that Russia’s nuclear forces would not be targeted by the system and joint control of how it is used.
You could argue it's a concession to bring Russia to the negotiating table (it is) but it's hardly cancelling anything, nor doing 'their bidding'.
Doing it before-hand would jeopardize his re-election. He suborned US security interests, and that of our allies, to his political ambition.
Huh? It might have jeopardized his election depending on how Republicans spun it (i'm getting an idea based on your comments) but it's really obvious to anyone looking objectively at this that it had nothing to do with his political ambitions. 6? months or whatever is a really tight timeframe for a multinational defense agreement. That's the kind of thing you kick off in Y1-3, not Y4.

Very, very poor choice to draw corollaries toward.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,641
132
106
I don't think either is impeachable tbh. It's a tough world. Sometimes to get to the bottom of things you have to bend the rules a little bit. If some terrorist gets to breathe water for a little while, or Ukraine doesn't get tank money, then so be it. If there is blatant corruption and bribery going on at the highest levels let's get to the bottom of it.

Who actually believes this?:laughing:
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
How exactly was he negotiating? Both us and Russia were going through a re-election and it's pretty obvious that during that timeframe, bigass deals don't get made. Unless I'm really reading this article wrong, he wasn't 'negotiating' anything, he was just saying 'let's reengage this once we're done with elections, assuming I'm still around'. Got a link that indicates any kind of negotiation?


What? It says right here that Russia wanted a legally binding pledge regarding its use, not that it be cancelled.

You could argue it's a concession to bring Russia to the negotiating table (it is) but it's hardly cancelling anything, nor doing 'their bidding'.

Huh? It might have jeopardized his election depending on how Republicans spun it (i'm getting an idea based on your comments) but it's really obvious to anyone looking objectively at this that it had nothing to do with his political ambitions. 6? months or whatever is a really tight timeframe for a multinational defense agreement. That's the kind of thing you kick off in Y1-3, not Y4.

Very, very poor choice to draw corollaries toward.

If Trump had done this, everyone (or at least any honest person among us) knows exactly what would've happened.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,250
16,474
146
If Trump had done this, everyone (or at least any honest person among us) knows exactly what would've happened.
... Nothing? I wouldn't say shit if Trump delayed working on a multi-national negotiation until after his election due to timeframes involved.

I would say shit if Trump told Russia he'd sort out this whole 'EU defense garbage' in exchange for getting him elected.

Something that you and a few others I've encountered fail to realize, I don't hate Trump because he's Republican, I don't even hate him because he's an idiotic jackass. I hate him because he does illegal shit, and people crowd around him to defend him because he's convinced them that he's on their side. He's a populist who's formed a cult of personality so strong they'd march into hell carrying an effigy of him on their back while he renegs on everything he said he'd do for them.

It's really easy, don't do illegal shit, and you don't get impeached. Don't do illegal shit, and I might not agree with your policies, but I won't outright hate you.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,728
31,092
146
Obama did ram a bad healthcare bill down our throats. Healthcare costs increased by 100% plus and lots of places quit offering healthcare altogether.

lol. what a preposterously obtuse lie.

How could you actually believe such a plain lie?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,700
136
lol. what a preposterously obtuse lie.

How could you actually believe such a plain lie?

It's very strange how even though health care inflation after the ACA was much lower than it was before it the extreme right has somehow convinced itself that exactly the opposite happened. He's not the only one to say that too, I've seen it repeated over and over, the exact opposite of reality.

It's things like that which really show me the power of right wing media. They live in a totally alternate reality from the rest of us.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,250
16,474
146
It's very strange how even though health care inflation after the ACA was much lower than it was before it the extreme right has somehow convinced itself that exactly the opposite happened. He's not the only one to say that too, I've seen it repeated over and over, the exact opposite of reality.

It's things like that which really show me the power of right wing media. They live in a totally alternate reality from the rest of us.
Some of it is just casual grifting, scraping the bottom of the barrel for those that are easily tricked. Some is definitely alternate-reality land though. Recasting Romney as a Democrat plant is a superb example of that.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,073
45,039
136
This victory lap he's conducting at the WH really is super testing my philosophy not to wish ill on somebody. This fetid garbage scow of a human being cannot be gone fast enough.
 
Jan 25, 2011
17,021
9,471
146
This speech he's giving... just... holy shit...

Why can I never get used to this broken stream of consciousness he continually spews?!
 
Nov 29, 2006
15,823
4,356
136
You mistake a political event for an actual trial. Sure they call it a trial, but it's like having the lackeys be the juror for their crime boss. You knew the outcome before the criminal was charged.

I know, but either way it was a rigged sham of a process.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
It's very strange how even though health care inflation after the ACA was much lower than it was before it the extreme right has somehow convinced itself that exactly the opposite happened. He's not the only one to say that too, I've seen it repeated over and over, the exact opposite of reality.

It's things like that which really show me the power of right wing media. They live in a totally alternate reality from the rest of us.

Rendering them thus is quite purposeful. From Hanna Arendt-

The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist.

Trump has alternate facts to fit every situation.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
25,416
10,009
136
This is your brain:
a1ca41f72736f68dabc673d46904576f.jpg


This is your brain on stupid:

It's what I said earlier. He was negotiating directly with our biggest enemy to work a deal whereby he could get re-elected, and then do their bidding (cancelling the joint American-European missile defense shield). Doing it before-hand would jeopardize his re-election. He suborned US security interests, and that of our allies, to his political ambition.

Once he was re-elected, he did exactly that.

One would think by the new standards of removal this would rank up there.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,485
9,707
136
Wait, you're trying to equate Obama saying he has to take domestic politics into account with Trump trying to get foreign powers to dig up dirt on his domestic political enemies? This has to be a joke but I feel like it's not, which genuinely scares me.

2+2=5 if Hannity says it does. Or if it just feels better than admitting that the Republicans are hellbent on being corrupt and harming our nation.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,410
32,993
136
This speech he's giving... just... holy shit...

Why can I never get used to this broken stream of consciousness he continually spews?!
A common punishment is to have the avout memorize chapters in "The Book" - "crafted and refined over many centuries to be nonsensical, maddening, and pointless ... The punishment lay in knowing that you were putting all that effort into letting a kind of intellectual poison infiltrate your brain". - Anathem by Neal Stephenson
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,700
136
This speech he's giving... just... holy shit...

Why can I never get used to this broken stream of consciousness he continually spews?!

I wonder how Senate Republicans feel about their decision to acquit him when he then follows it up by confessing to the crime on national TV and then starts insanely ranting about all the people he's going to get revenge on.

I don't see how anyone can watch that and think this guy is mentally well.