President Obama birth certificate not authentic, results of Sherif Arpaio's study

[cybrsage]

Out of curiosity, how many people here have their original birth certificate? The one given to their parents when they were born. I have mine. The reason I ask is that I always thought everyone had their original birth certificate available to them. Turns out this is not true.



Maybe I should start a new thread with a poll to find out. What do you all think?

 

[JSt0rm]

i dont have mine. i had to get a reissue 10 years ago

 

[Fern]

I believe I have mine.

One thing people should bear in mind, and I've seen many overlook this, is that BC's were handled quite differently back when Obama and people of my age were born. There were no PC's, no pdf apps, no scanners, no word processing machines etc. The hospital back then may not have had even a photocopier.

Most often copies for single documents like that were done with carbon paper, or they simply typed out 2 or 3 copies manually.

Your SS# was not on your BC either. Those were separate processes. The SS# was typically not applied for or assigned until you were of working age. Currently they are issued with your BC.

I.e., people his age were issued hard copies at birth. We needed to produce them to enter 1st grade, college and law school etc. I suppose sometime after graduating law school he somehow lost his (original hard copy) BC.

Fern

 

[CallMeJoe]

Out of curiosity, how many people here have their original birth certificate? The one given to their parents when they were born. I have mine. The reason I ask is that I always thought everyone had their original birth certificate available to them. Turns out this is not true...

Mine was lost long ago. I requested a replacement from North Carolina and was supplied a "Certificate of Live Birth" remarkably similar to the document originally posted by the Obama campaign.

Does that make me a secret Kenyan Muslim?

 

[xBiffx]

The only qualification is the ability to be elected, nothing more, nothing less. whether or not someone will make a good President is besides the point, your boy Bush proved that.

Absolutely wrong on all accounts, troll.

 

[hal2kilo]

i dont have mine. i had to get a reissue 10 years ago

This. I had to have one to get a Cali drvers license. I had what l thought was my original BC, but it was the hospital BC which wasn't good enough because it was not a gubment issued one.

So l had to send off to D.C. for it cause that's where i was hatched.

 

[cybrsage]

Mine was lost long ago. I requested a replacement from North Carolina and was supplied a "Certificate of Live Birth" remarkably similar to the document originally posted by the Obama campaign.

Does that make me a secret Kenyan Muslim?

Yes. Let the tar and feathering begin afresh!

 

[cybrsage]

I believe I have mine.

One thing people should bear in mind, and I've seen many overlook this, is that BC's were handled quite differently back when Obama and people of my age were born. There were no PC's, no pdf apps, no scanners, no word processing machines etc. The hospital back then may not have had even a photocopier.

Most often copies for single documents like that were done with carbon paper, or they simply typed out 2 or 3 copies manually.

Your SS# was not on your BC either. Those were separate processes. The SS# was typically not applied for or assigned until you were of working age. Currently they are issued with your BC.

I.e., people his age were issued hard copies at birth. We needed to produce them to enter 1st grade, college and law school etc. I suppose sometime after graduating law school he somehow lost his (original hard copy) BC.

Fern

Yep. Each copy had an original signature on it (carbon paper was more expensive then simply typing it a few times).

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not saying I agree or even care about this, but I am pointing out the stupidity of the post I quoted, from a technical standpoint.

Heh. Lameness. First, start with a document that may have been partially computer generated. Now copy it with a modern computer driven copier, send it to somebody who copies it as a pdf, posts it online, and others download it again. It's been compressed & decompressed more than once, and will *obviously* contain artifacts of those processes, which is what Sheriff Joe's team of Birther whackjobs are carrying on about.

The stae of Hawaii has certified that both the long & short forms are legit, and an announcement of Obama's birth at a local hospital was posted in the local newspaper at the time, by the hospital.

WTF do you want, anyway? I seriously doubt that any of us could provide any more proof than that, but for those who desperately want to believe otherwise, it isn't good enough. Nothing ever will be.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Heh. Lameness. First, start with a document that may have been partially computer generated. Now copy it with a modern computer driven copier, send it to somebody who copies it as a pdf, posts it online, and others download it again. It's been compressed & decompressed more than once, and will *obviously* contain artifacts of those processes, which is what Sheriff Joe's team of Birther whackjobs are carrying on about.

The stae of Hawaii has certified that both the long & short forms are legit, and an announcement of Obama's birth at a local hospital was posted in the local newspaper at the time, by the hospital.

WTF do you want, anyway? I seriously doubt that any of us could provide any more proof than that, but for those who desperately want to believe otherwise, it isn't good enough. Nothing ever will be.

So you know they used JPEGs with low quality then? Or did they use TIFFs?

They are citing things such as the stamp MOVING. Things that are not bloody likely to just be an artifact in the image. Pixelation, colors being off, yes. Not things moving.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
The stae of Hawaii has certified that both the long & short forms are legit, and an announcement of Obama's birth at a local hospital was posted in the local newspaper at the time, by the hospital.

Well, there is a birth announcement.

However, the birth announcement does not mention any hospital.

See here: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

I've never seen any evidence that any hospital made the announcement, or gave any info to a newspaper. It seems more likely the families gave the info to newspapers. I have no idea why a hospital would want to volunteer such private/personal information, or go to the expense and bother to do so.

If you have a link, I'd be happy to look at it, though.

Fern

 

[Jhhnn]

So you know they used JPEGs with low quality then? Or did they use TIFFs?

They are citing things such as the stamp MOVING. Things that are not bloody likely to just be an artifact in the image. Pixelation, colors being off, yes. Not things moving.

None of which amounts to a little pile of mouse shit in the face of certification by the state of Hawaii & the newspaper announcement of his birth. Get over yourself, and your own bullshit.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well, there is a birth announcement.

However, the birth announcement does not mention any hospital.

See here: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php

I've never seen any evidence that any hospital made the announcement, or gave any info to a newspaper. It seems more likely the families gave the info to newspapers. I have no idea why a hospital would want to volunteer such private/personal information, or go to the expense and bother to do so.

If you have a link, I'd be happy to look at it, though.

Fern

I said that wrong- mea culpa. At least one of the newspapers publishes from state records, furnished by the hospitals to the state-

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/2008/09/reports-that-ob.html#LocalNewspaper

Like I offered- Nobody here or anywhere can offer more proof of their own birth status than Obama has done. The methods of birthers could be used in an attempt to discredit anybody, because those methods are bullshit.

 

[Fern]

Yeah, that makes sense. I've long thought they may have obtained the info from the Dept of Records.

Fern

 

[mpo]

So you know they used JPEGs with low quality then? Or did they use TIFFs?

They are citing things such as the stamp MOVING. Things that are not bloody likely to just be an artifact in the image. Pixelation, colors being off, yes. Not things moving.

Neither. They used a PDF creator. The settings the scanner operator used created artifacts in the document. The software processing created some vector-based artifacts (some of the text/graphic elements are sharp, at all magnifications), others are pixilated, just as you would expect when the software interprets some elements as 'pictures' and creates a raster format for those elements.

The PDF creation software interprets all of the different groupings of vector- and raster-based elements, and spits out a document that largely matches the layout of the original document.

The scanner operator could have created a jpeg or TIFF (raster only) based picture and embedded it in the PDF container. There would have been only ~2 layers in the image. One would have been the background container, the second the actual image.

Or, they could have gone whole-hog and OCR'd the document. From my experience, it would have generated ~4 layers. One for the vector-based text, one or two for the table, one for blurred text elements in the stamps, and one for the container.

All of which is moot, as Hawai'i acknowledges they gave Obama's lawyer two paper copies of the birth certificate that are on the White House web site.

 

[soundforbjt]

Some people start as birthers, like soundforbjt, but eventually they get tired of being laughed at and change their mind.

I would show you where he posted that he was a birther, but the search engine does not let me go back far enough...

Not true and you know it. Nice try though.

 

[tweaker2]

So the sheriff's carefully recruited posse of expert researchers, analysts, investigators and cybersnoops determined that Obama's birth cert'y is a fake.

Let's convene a congressional investigation and have the sheriff's evidence raked over with a fine tooth comb invloving the FBI, the CIA, the NSA and any other high level resource at the government's disposal. Then let's have the sheriff testify at a hearing and have his testimony and his alleged "evidence" picked apart by the panel of congresspersons and determine once and for all if the sheriff is right or wrong.

I would absolutely love to see him getting skewered and grilled by the committee for making such a bold statement of "fact".

 

[cybrsage]

Not true and you know it. Nice try though.

I do not know it is not true. I would prove it, but...well, you know.

 

[Jhhnn]

I do not know it is not true. I would prove it, but...well, you know.

In other words, it was a groundless assertion & attempted character assassination, right?

 

[dawp]

Absolutely wrong on all accounts, troll.

There are no job requirements other than those stated in the constitution. Any one who meets those requirements can be president, whether or not they will make a good one is besides the point, and your boy Bush is one of the worst we've had. he was unqualified by your standard.

 

[xBiffx]

There are no job requirements other than those stated in the constitution. Any one who meets those requirements can be president, whether or not they will make a good one is besides the point, and your boy Bush is one of the worst we've had. he was unqualified by your standard.

ROFL. My boy Bush. Can't stop laughing.

 

[cybrsage]

In other words, it was a groundless assertion & attempted character assassination, right?

No it was not. I honestly believe he did the same thing he accused me of doing...just like he honestly believes his claim. My support is identical to his support.

So unless you are also claiming his statement is groundless assertion & attempted character assassination, then mine is not either.

Are you?

 

[Darwin333]

So you know they used JPEGs with low quality then? Or did they use TIFFs?

They are citing things such as the stamp MOVING. Things that are not bloody likely to just be an artifact in the image. Pixelation, colors being off, yes. Not things moving.

The one thing that I recall was there was no chromatic aberration in the PDF file. From what I understand it is impossible for a scanned image to not have chromatic aberration. Also some stuff about a few of the lines of type being impossible for a typewriter of that day to do.

Shrug, as I said it doesn't make a damn bit of difference at this point.

 

[Thump553]

Fern: check your records-I can just about guarantee you don't have your ORIGINAL birth certficate-that's a document filed with the state. And its these certified copies that the birthers are getting hysterical about. Also see my post earlier in this thread-my state (at least) routinely destroys the original paper birth certificate after they have been copied into the state records, those copies becoming the official state record. At best you have a certified copy.

Very much of these birther's theorizing is based upon a tiny shred of knowledge which they hopelessly distort. It's like the old story of the five blind men describing an elephant.

 

[Fern]

Fern: check your records-I can just about guarantee you don't have your ORIGINAL birth certficate-that's a document filed with the state. And its these certified copies that the birthers are getting hysterical about. Also see my post earlier in this thread-my state (at least) routinely destroys the original paper birth certificate after they have been copied into the state records, those copies becoming the official state record. At best you have a certified copy.

Very much of these birther's theorizing is based upon a tiny shred of knowledge which they hopelessly distort. It's like the old story of the five blind men describing an elephant.

I'll check for it. Would be interesting to see it. I haven't had to use it (hence haven't seen it) since about 1985 when I first got my passport.

I do know it's not computer generated because I received it long before PC's etc were around. I got it from my mother, and she would've gotten it upon my birth, or when I entered 1st grade (about 1965, so a looong time before PC's etc.)

Mine is likely different from most others because I was born on a military base.

Fern