President Obama birth certificate not authentic, results of Sherif Arpaio's study

[fskimospy]

Unless your name is Scalia, Thomas, et al....

:whiste:

I've always found it to be vitally important to know what people alive in the 1700's thought about the implications of GPS monitoring, satellite thermal imaging, and the 4th amendment implications of email monitoring as it relates to data relay hubs.

I don't even like to get lunch without thinking of what the Founding Fathers might have eaten.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Agreed but I think there are two sets of dissenters in here and out there. Birthers who don't believe that Obama was born in the US or that his BC is a fake or something to this effect. Then there are others who have no issue with his Hawaiin birth, his citizenship, or his BC. They have issue with whether or not, given those facts, he is still qualified to be president, the one office that has more qualifications requirements than any other. I don't have a name for them but its not birther.

Obama seems to fit the description of a person that the founding father were trying to prevent from being qualified to be president and therefore commander in chief. They specifically wanted to make sure that no one could reach that office that might have an allegiance to anything/anyone else but the United Stated.

Let me stop you right there.
You're argument that the FF wanted to prevent presidents that might have other allegiances from being president is correct.
Hence why Kennedy had to essentially swear that his allegiance was with the United States and not with the Vatican/Papacy. (And yet another reason Santorum should not be allowed anywhere near the office.)
But to conclude from that because the country Obama's that father is from was at the time was under British rule somehow makes him more loyal to England than the US is simply asinine, and should not be taken seriously.

 

[Darwin333]

What it boils down to IMHO, is that Sheriff has no venue of experience in making claims of the validity of any birth certificate.

And the sooner we realize all ole Sheriff Joe bought is another dubious15 minutes of fame.
Meanwhile the US justice department is putting the final touches on arresting and convicting Sheriff Joe which should be end of story Joe.

I dunno, I have seen very compelling arguments that the birth certificate that he posted was indeed computer generated. That doesn't change my view that he is a citizen and this is a waste of time but I have yet to hear a decent answer to the issues brought up.

 

[xBiffx]

You mean black? Because I'm pretty sure the founding fathers weren't keen on black men becoming president, regardless of where they were born. They also didn't want women voting. We've come a long way since the 18th Century; using a strict view of what "the founding fathers wanted" is no longer a reasonable approach to interpreting the Constitution.

I'm sure all of what you said about the FF is true as well but we have passed amendments to allow for those changes (13th and 19th). These were passed using that same "strict view of what the founding fathers wanted", i.e. constitutionally changed. As I said, many times there have been amendment proposals to change the requirements for the office of president but all have failed. You can't just ignore/break laws and then ask for forgiveness/change them later. That isn't how civil, organized society prospers. You can't just ignore the parts of the law that you don't like or think should be changed. Until they are changed, that's the law.

 

[Munky]

Logic & proof don't apply to conspiracy theories.

Was Obama born in Hawaii?

Here's your sign-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvj_acGhbPk

False. If you had any logic to prove your argument, then you'd use it. But since you don't, you best stick to screaming "conspiracy theory" to avoid taking the subject seriously.

 

[CrackRabbit]

False. If you had any logic to prove your argument, then you'd use it. But since you don't, you best stick to screaming "conspiracy theory" to avoid taking the subject seriously.

You should use that argument on yourself.

 

[xBiffx]

Let me stop you right there.
You're argument that the FF wanted to prevent presidents that might have other allegiances from being president is correct.
Hence why Kennedy had to essentially swear that his allegiance was with the United States and not with the Vatican/Papacy. (And yet another reason Santorum should not be allowed anywhere near the office.)
But to conclude from that because the country Obama's that father is from was at the time was under British rule somehow makes him more loyal to England than the US is simply asinine, and should not be taken seriously.

It would seem they were talking about allegiance to foreign governments/states but your Vatican reference does seem to fit the description as well, to an extent. I think you are taking a step further but pretty much saying religious people shouldn't be president though. I agree about Santorum but not about your sentiment.

I bolded the word might for a reason.

hey specifically wanted to make sure that no one could reach that office that might have an allegiance to anything/anyone else but the United Stated.

It would also seem that they weren't willing to risk the safety of the new country they just founded or anything. Having someone who had a parent that was not a citizen could be such a risk. Although its probably not a problem at all in the case of Obama, the FF weren't taking any chances. Again, just cause you don't like the way its written doesn't mean that we can just ignore it. There is a constitutional method to change what has been written as I posted about earlier.

 

[Munky]

You should use that argument on yourself.

I'm not the one trying to dismiss an issue with crying "conspiracy theory!"

 

[CrackRabbit]

It would seem they were talking about allegiance to foreign governments/states but your Vatican reference does seem to fit the description as well, to an extent. I think you are taking a step further but pretty much saying religious people shouldn't be president though. I agree about Santorum but not about your sentiment.

[off topic] In general I don't have anything really against the religious, it's their choice to believe in a god/gods/goddesses/FSM/Cthulhu.
I do have a problem when a person uses the political system to try and force their religious viewpoints on everyone, or will follow the will of their religions clergy instead of other advisers when making a political decision.
(Please note that this is different that different than prayer or meditative thought.)
Santorum has outright stated that he wants to do both of the things that I have a problem with, and yet is still winning primaries. [/off topic]

 

[CrackRabbit]

I'm not the one trying to dismiss an issue with crying "conspiracy theory!"

But you are using what is, at best, shaky logic and evidence as true facts.

 

[Pens1566]

Threads like these are great for weeding out the "certifiables."

Yes, and there are about 6 or 7 of them on the first page of P&N at any one time.

 

[xBiffx]

[off topic] In general I don't have anything really against the religious, it's their choice to believe in a god/gods/goddesses/FSM/Cthulhu.
I do have a problem when a person uses the political system to try and force their religious viewpoints on everyone, or will follow the will of their religions clergy instead of other advisers when making a political decision.
(Please note that this is different that different than prayer or meditative thought.)
Santorum has outright stated that he wants to do both of the things that I have a problem with, and yet is still winning primaries. [/off topic]

Noted. Apologies if I mischaracterized your previous post. It does give a whole different perspective on the idea of foreign allegiance outside of governments/states. Thank you for that.

 

[Munky]

But you are using what is, at best, shaky logic and evidence as true facts.

Says you and what quote? I am considering both sides of the argument, whereas those like you would rather dismiss it offhand.

 

[Jhhnn]

False. If you had any logic to prove your argument, then you'd use it. But since you don't, you best stick to screaming "conspiracy theory" to avoid taking the subject seriously.

Lemme see... there's the short & long form birth certificates, not to mention the announcement in the newspaper from the time of his birth. Also sworn testimony by Repub & Dem officials as to the authenticity of it all.

On the other side of the "argument" is... fantasy & desperation. You might as well argue that the moon is made of green cheese.

I can't believe that anybody still entertains such stupidity. Hell, I can't believe that anybody entertained it in the first place.

 

[Capt Caveman]

I'm not the one trying to dismiss an issue with crying "conspiracy theory!"

:biggrin:

 

[Craig234]

I dunno, I have seen very compelling arguments that the birth certificate that he posted was indeed computer generated. That doesn't change my view that he is a citizen and this is a waste of time but I have yet to hear a decent answer to the issues brought up.

The technical expertise on AT should be able to resolve this...

 

[Jhhnn]

I dunno, I have seen very compelling arguments that the birth certificate that he posted was indeed computer generated. That doesn't change my view that he is a citizen and this is a waste of time but I have yet to hear a decent answer to the issues brought up.

Of course what he posted was computer generated- that's how it could be posted on the internet as a PDF, Silly. Sheesh.

The reason you haven't heard decent answers is because there's no rational answer to conspiracy theory fantasies, quite by design.

The whole Birther bit is an attempt to deny Obama's legitimacy, to claim that Righties were cheated by an "illegal" candidate. It's all they've got to explain losing, because they're utterly in denial as to the reasons for losing. They're so sure they're right, so sure that they're the "majority" that they'll resort to anything including self deception to maintain their opinions, such as they are.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Of course what he posted was computer generated- that's how it could be posted on the internet as a PDF, Silly. Sheesh.

Uhh....no, what they refer to in their investigation is stuff like how the color is on the wrong layer. Scanning it won't make a stamp be in the wrong place, or color appear on top of something else.

 

[Jhhnn]

Uhh....no, what they refer to in their investigation is stuff like how the color is on the wrong layer. Scanning it won't make a stamp be in the wrong place, or color appear on top of something else.

They desperately refer to any lame-ass excuse to drag out the "controversy" they conjured up out of thin air in the first place.

PDF's are "lossy" & the software attempts to make up for that in reproducing any image, leading to artifacts. It's merely a passable facsimile of the original.

The point is, like all conspiracy theorists, Birthers simply cannot be satisfied, because they refuse to look at their pet conspiracy theory objectively. First, they Believe, then find "facts" they can interpret to bolster their belief. If those "facts" aren't good enough, they'll just find more. It's denial, hermetically sealed.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

The point is, like all conspiracy theorists, Birthers simply cannot be satisfied, because they refuse to look at their pet conspiracy theory objectively. First, they Believe, then find "facts" they can interpret to bolster their belief. If those "facts" aren't good enough, they'll just find more. It's denial, hermetically sealed.

This is a historic moment in P&N because, for once, I wholeheartedly agree with Jhhnn.

 

[cybrsage]

They desperately refer to any lame-ass excuse to drag out the "controversy" they conjured up out of thin air in the first place.

PDF's are "lossy" & the software attempts to make up for that in reproducing any image, leading to artifacts. It's merely a passable facsimile of the original.

The point is, like all conspiracy theorists, Birthers simply cannot be satisfied, because they refuse to look at their pet conspiracy theory objectively. First, they Believe, then find "facts" they can interpret to bolster their belief. If those "facts" aren't good enough, they'll just find more. It's denial, hermetically sealed.

Some people start as birthers, like soundforbjt, but eventually they get tired of being laughed at and change their mind.

I would show you where he posted that he was a birther, but the search engine does not let me go back far enough...

 

[dawp]

Agreed but I think there are two sets of dissenters in here and out there. Birthers who don't believe that Obama was born in the US or that his BC is a fake or something to this effect. Then there are others who have no issue with his Hawaiin birth, his citizenship, or his BC. They have issue with whether or not, given those facts, he is still qualified to be president, the one office that has more qualifications requirements than any other. I don't have a name for them but its not birther.

The only qualification is the ability to be elected, nothing more, nothing less. whether or not someone will make a good President is besides the point, your boy Bush proved that.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Uhh....no, what they refer to in their investigation is stuff like how the color is on the wrong layer. Scanning it won't make a stamp be in the wrong place, or color appear on top of something else.

Really? Really??? That's all you have? The state of Hawaii validates the thing. How hard would it be to have a valid one printed from them if they're complicit? For what reason would anything need to be forged?!

 

[WHAMPOM]

I dunno, I have seen very compelling arguments that the birth certificate that he posted was indeed computer generated. That doesn't change my view that he is a citizen and this is a waste of time but I have yet to hear a decent answer to the issues brought up.

What "Authentic" birth certificate? Are not all of our fiftieth state's birth records stored in electronic forms?
All Hawaiian Birth Certificates are computer generated copies. Hell, posting anything makes it computer generated.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Really? Really??? That's all you have? The state of Hawaii validates the thing. How hard would it be to have a valid one printed from them if they're complicit? For what reason would anything need to be forged?!

I'm not saying I agree or even care about this, but I am pointing out the stupidity of the post I quoted, from a technical standpoint.