The beauty of CF is it's ability to be weaved and layed up to provide ultimate stiffness in one axis and compliance in another. Aluminum provides light weight and stiffness, but is very stiff in all axes (ref. any old-school cannondale frame). Steel is the ultimate in comfort, but can't really reach the strength/weight ratios of these other materials. Ti is just too freakin expensive and is more for the niche market consumer. A great hybrid design alternative, which is very popular now and I have one myself, is an aluminum main triangle with a CF fork and rear triangle. This results in a lightweight frame with excellent stiffness but great shock absorption capabilites as well. Almost all major high-end manufacturers offer such a frame.
The beauty of CF is it's ability to be weaved and layed up to provide ultimate stiffness in one axis and compliance in another. Aluminum provides light weight and stiffness, but is very stiff in all axes (ref. any old-school cannondale frame). Steel is the ultimate in comfort, but can't really reach the strength/weight ratios of these other materials. Ti is just too freakin expensive and is more for the niche market consumer. A great hybrid design alternative, which is very popular now and I have one myself, is an aluminum main triangle with a CF fork and rear triangle. This results in a lightweight frame with excellent stiffness but great shock absorption capabilites as well. Almost all major high-end manufacturers offer such a frame.
My current bike has the CF seatstay and chainstay on the Al frame. I still say that steel is a cushier ride. A full CF is nice too, but it lends itself to damage if you ride hard.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,580
- 982
- 126
Actually, I find carbon fiber (full carbon, not those aluminum/carbon mixes) to be almost as comfortable as steel. The trouble with CF is it's expensive, it's very brittle, and when it fails, it fails catastrophically. Steel is springier, and it tends to bend rather than snap when it fails. It is a bit heavier but you can get a decent steel frame road bike to weigh in under 20lbs.
Steel is definitely the cushier ride, no question. But when lightness really counts, steel is just not as competitive. It's all about priorities really. I'm not so sure about your last statement though. CF manufacturing and assembly techniques have advanced light years in the past 10, 5, even 2 years. The new Carbon Nano-Tube technology (CNT) is yielding fibers that are simply amazing and new "carbon welding" techniques are just examples of where innovation in the industry are paying off big for consumers.
Dirigible
Diamond Member
- Apr 26, 2006
- 5,961
- 32
- 91
My 29" rigid single speed:
Mary
My full suspension:
Turner Flux
Turns out the only pic I have of the bike is from when I broke the seat post.
Don't have a picture of my road bike, but it's a Calfee Luna Pro, like that pictured here (minus the yellow):
Calfee Luna
Mary
My full suspension:
Turner Flux
Turns out the only pic I have of the bike is from when I broke the seat post.
Don't have a picture of my road bike, but it's a Calfee Luna Pro, like that pictured here (minus the yellow):
Calfee Luna
Regardless of CNT, carbon fiber is will still crack over prolongued use and hard riding although Specialized and Trek create CF MTB bikes that were considered very durable. Also, in a crash CF will still break and even shatter which can cause serious damage not only to the frame (look at the women's Australian team).
I was going to race competitively before I made a decision to go back to school, so I agree that Al or CF is lighter and can give you a boost on Time-trials. But if you are talking about something other the TT's, steel is real, Ti is light, Al is light but unforgiving, CF is light and forgiving but may be too flexy over time (ie micro fractures and cracks). But yes, given the choice, I would pick CF for the price and the considerable lightness of the frame and price. If price wasn't an issue I would get Ti. And if I had enough for two bikes, I would get steel.
Right now though since I ride so little, there is no point.
Originally posted by: Dirigible
My 29" rigid single speed:
Mary
My full suspension:
Turner Flux
Turns out the only pic I have of the bike is from when I broke the seat post.
Don't have a picture of my road bike, but it's a Calfee Luna Pro, like that pictured here (minus the yellow):
Calfee Luna
A Calfee Luna Pro!!! :Q Wow. Nice
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,580
- 982
- 126
I'd like to add that I've ridden extensively on an aluminum/CF bike (aluminum frame with CF fork and CF seat/chainstays and it wasn't any more forgiving than an all aluminum bike IMO. It was still very harsh and punishing on any ride over 40 miles.
I won't buy an aluminum bike. Steel, CF or Ti are the only materials I'd consider.
You can pick only two:
Lightweight
Low Cost
Comfortable
BTW-Another nice thing about steel frames is there are a lot of them and you can buy an old steel frame and put a modern drivetrain on it.
I won't buy an aluminum bike. Steel, CF or Ti are the only materials I'd consider.
You can pick only two:
Lightweight
Low Cost
Comfortable
BTW-Another nice thing about steel frames is there are a lot of them and you can buy an old steel frame and put a modern drivetrain on it.
Dirigible
Diamond Member
- Apr 26, 2006
- 5,961
- 32
- 91
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Dirigible
My 29" rigid single speed:
Mary
My full suspension:
Turner Flux
Turns out the only pic I have of the bike is from when I broke the seat post.
Don't have a picture of my road bike, but it's a Calfee Luna Pro, like that pictured here (minus the yellow):
Calfee Luna
A Calfee Luna Pro!!! :Q Wow. Nice
It's been a great bike. Super comfy. I bought it about three years ago. Prior to purchase, I hadn't done any 100 mile days in nearly ten years. In the few months after I bought the bike I found myself enjoying riding it so much that my spins through the hills just turned into centuries. Those long rides have continued, so I thank this bike for my improved fitness.
The complete bike was surprisingly inexpensive, too. I think at the time I bought it, the only Trek carbon bike that was cheaper was the lowest-end one, and I got nicer components on my bike.
Well, your Alum/CF frame experience surprises me, but hey, everybody is different.
Don't get me wrong, steel is for real. For affordability, comfort, durability you can't beat it. I still love riding my old-school Columbus SLX frame. It's funny because I'm a cycling freak from way back and the move from steel to the more exotic materials was extremely tough for me as a purist. But I've owned and ridden alot of different bikes over the years and just thought I would share some of my learnings and positive experiences with the newer materials. As long as you are out there riding, nothing else really matters.
- Jan 2, 2006
- 10,455
- 35
- 91
Originally posted by: DaShen
Truth be told
Seconded. Aluminum is a cheap attempt to go lightweight, but to me it's not worth it. Punishing ride + doesn't do too well with accidents. If an aluminum tube were to hit a hard jutting object, like a curbside, it will tend to crimp and crack. Carbon fiber shatters and cracks. Both mean you're going to be getting a new frame. Steel alloys and titanium alloys, not so much.
I really like Reynold 853 for a great lowish cost option that's still decently light with a great ride and will last forever. Titanium if you have the money (I've seen some ok-priced titanium bikes, not sure of their quality though). Carbon fiber definitely if you have a lot of money and are ok with the drawbacks.
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
- 30,029
- 67
- 91
IMO material is highly overrated as a differentiating factor in ride quality. You can build a buckboard bike out of steel (actually some of the air-hardened steels, like 853, provide a relatively unpleasant ride IMO) or even ti, and a wonderfully-riding aluminum bike. Personally I prefer steel and ti from a durability and ride quality standpoint (and ultimately I think I give the nod to steel, even though I own two ti bikes), but there are great aluminum bikes out there (e.g., Pegorettis and Merckxes). In some respects I think CF is the odd man out in that it rides in a qualitatively different way from metal bikes, but I have ridden CF bikes I really enjoyed too.
It's a dyno roadster clone frame that I got off of ebayabout 5 years ago. I've upgraded the handle bars to dyno handle bars. I got the rest of the parts from LovelyLowrider
HomeBrewerDude
Lifer
- Jan 18, 2001
- 14,465
- 1
- 0
Ah yes, the Dyno Roadster is a Kustom Kruiser.
I used to sell them years back, in fact the saddle on my fatty came off a Roadster.
Since this thread took a turn toward discussing frame materials, here are two recent threads. Unfortunately, they're full of hearsay without reliable sources, though some claims are more plausible than others.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=273240
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=273452
Since CF can be more precisely designed and constructed, more material can be placed where it's needed and less where it's not. This leads to lighter weight and desired characteristics under expected load, but vulnerability to unexpected loads, e.g. crashes. I've been convinced to stay away from super-light CF handlebars due to their high replacement cost: Are carbon handlebars safe?
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=273240
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=273452
Since CF can be more precisely designed and constructed, more material can be placed where it's needed and less where it's not. This leads to lighter weight and desired characteristics under expected load, but vulnerability to unexpected loads, e.g. crashes. I've been convinced to stay away from super-light CF handlebars due to their high replacement cost: Are carbon handlebars safe?
As I understand it, any scratch that penetrates the clear-coat and into the carbon forms a stress riser that will eventually lead to failure - the frame should be written off. However, a deep scratch caused by a foreign object is unlikely except on gravel or in a multi-bike pile-up.
Are you referring to the accident in Germany in 2005? It's the one I remember and the only one that shows up for australian women's cycling accident on the first few pages of Google.
vailr
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 1999
- 5,365
- 54
- 91
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