Polls show obamacare wave building against senate democrats

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
We already pay for free healthcare for everyone in the country through inflated insurance rates and taxes. Anyone can walk into a hospital and get care for free. It's mandated by law.

So now that you understand that you are ALREADY paying for poor people to get healthcare, how do you want to do it? Do you want to have your taxes used to expand Medicaid so poor people can get access? Or do you want to keep paying for them to go to the ER when they have bad diarrhea? Do you want poor people to get access to preventive care and personal physicians so they don't let their health problems spiral out of control? Or do you want the first sign that a mother of four has TB when she starts coughing up blood and needs an ambulance called?

So no, it's not free money. But it's money that you're already paying. Do you want to spend your tax dollars smart or stupid?

Right now; there is $x$ doing to the ER out of what I hand over to the government;

I do not see the government stating that my taxes are going to go down because I not have to pay $y$ more for insurance to subsidize those that may not go to the ER.

So my taxes are still the same plus I pay more for my insurance
And 10M (illegals) will still be going to the ER because they do not pay for insurance.

So, if my insurance is jacked up by $100 because of the new rules; and my taxes do not go down $100 because of the new rules; I am getting shafted.
 

feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,395
4,451
136
Right now; there is $x$ doing to the ER out of what I hand over to the government;

I do not see the government stating that my taxes are going to go down because I not have to pay $y$ more for insurance to subsidize those that may not go to the ER.

So my taxes are still the same plus I pay more for my insurance
And 10M (illegals) will still be going to the ER because they do not pay for insurance.

So, if my insurance is jacked up by $100 because of the new rules; and my taxes do not go down $100 because of the new rules; I am getting shafted.



Spoken like a true patriot.


"Ask not for $100,00 to help my countrymen; ask what the hell is in it for me"
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126



I never said they were all that. You were the one that brough up how dumb they were, totally off topic of the thread. Can't debate with facts, diverse, diverse, diverse, deflect, deflect, eh?

You realize that Arkansas is close to the poorest state in the entire US, right? Whatever they are doing down there it isn't working.

See answer above. Stay on topic.

Again, if Democrat Senators are all so proud of Obamacare, why aren't they bragging about how great it is to the voters? (I haven't seen one single ad from Mary Landreiu of La and Mark Pryor of Ar that shown they were very proud of their votes for Obamacare).

Why are they running away from their own record?

Hummmmmm..... Still no answer? <critckets> :D
 
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Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
So the option is to vote for welfare?

Is that what this nation has come to?

In other words we should turn to socialism? There is little difference between government handouts and socialism / communism. When someone takes a handout from the government they have accepted socialism.

Since capitalism is collapsing upon its own greed, socialism does not sound too bad.

Some things are done better in a society than via the free market. National defense, for example. If everyone was responsible for buying their own personal army to defend themselves as they see fit, well, that wouldn't work out very well at all. Or building roads, that's a 'socialist' idea as well.

Healthcare is similar. Why? Because everyone in society benefits from people getting healthcare and being healthy. People have a hard time wrapping their head around that and I don't know why. A small improvement in the overall health of a population can lead to big gains in the economy. That's public health 101. If I get sick for a week, my company is going to lose money by not having me around to do my work. They'll have to shift it off to other people and generally disrupt people at my job. If I didn't have good healthcare and because of that I got sick for a month AND got a bunch of my coworkers sick too, well, now I've done even more damage.

If we want a 21st century America, we're not going to build it with unhealthy and uneducated people.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
I never said they were all that. You were the one that brough up how dumb they were, totally off topic of the thread. Can't debate with facts, diverse, diverse, diverse, eh?

See answer above. Stay on topic.

Well clearly they have been unable to channel all that brainpower into economic competitiveness. What would you attribute Arkansas's failure to compete to?

Again, if Democrat Senators are all so proud of Obamacare, why aren't they bragging about how great it is to the voters? (I haven't seen one single ad from Mary Landreiu of La and Mark Pryor of Ar that shown they were very proud of their votes for Obamacare).

Why are they running away from their own record?

Hummmmmm..... Still no answer? <critckets> :D

You're asking why senators in deeply Republican states aren't campaigning on an issue that Republicans rabidly oppose? I figured the answer to that would be obvious.

The problem here is that you assume that Republicans oppose the ACA on the merits, which is laughable at best. It has been repeatedly shown on here in god knows how many threads that Republicans are frequently completely unaware of what the ACA actually is or does.

Don't worry, in a few years when the crazies die down you will see not only Democrats in red states campaigning on it but you'll see Republicans shift tone into how they can 'fix' the ACA. Maybe a few decades from now they will paint themselves as the 'protectors' of the ACA. That's the natural progression. For a good example look at Medicare. Republicans went from OMGCOMMUNISM to attacking Obama for making cuts to the program.
 

Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
0
I do not see the government stating that my taxes are going to go down because I not have to pay $y$ more for insurance to subsidize those that may not go to the ER.

So my taxes are still the same plus I pay more for my insurance
And 10M (illegals) will still be going to the ER because they do not pay for insurance.

So, if my insurance is jacked up by $100 because of the new rules; and my taxes do not go down $100 because of the new rules; I am getting shafted.

First of all, it's unlikely that your insurance is going up because of the new rules. Health insurance rates have gone up every year for the last three decades, by around 15% annually. That's part of the problem that exchanges were designed to address. More insurers competing over more people should slow the rate of increase. Unfortunately, a large number of states decided not to build their own exchanges. It will take more than two months to see whether the exchanges can stabilize or slow the rising costs of healthcare.

Secondly, it's absurd to think that your taxes will go down because we're spending healthcare dollars on X instead of Y. The last F-22 Raptor was built in 2005. None of us got a tax break because we weren't buying F-22s any more. The DoD spent the money someplace else.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Well clearly they have been unable to channel all that brainpower into economic competitiveness. What would you attribute Arkansas's failure to compete to?


Thread title "Polls show obamacare wave building against senate democrats"

Any further comment about the topic of the thread?


You're asking why senators in deeply Republican states aren't campaigning on an issue that Republicans rabidly oppose? I figured the answer to that would be obvious.

The problem here is that you assume that Republicans oppose the ACA on the merits, which is laughable at best. It has been repeatedly shown on here in god knows how many threads that Republicans are frequently completely unaware of what the ACA actually is or does.

Don't worry, in a few years when the crazies die down you will see not only Democrats in red states campaigning on it but you'll see Republicans shift tone into how they can 'fix' the ACA. Maybe a few decades from now they will paint themselves as the 'protectors' of the ACA. That's the natural progression. For a good example look at Medicare. Republicans went from OMGCOMMUNISM to attacking Obama for making cuts to the program.

Deeply Republican? How long Louisiana and Arkansas were under Democrat rule until recently?

Sure, we will wait and see. Like how we saw with our own eyes "you can keep your insurance. Period" from our great dear leader, eh? :D Like how million of Americans received their insurance cancellation notices and if they are lucky, double digit increase.

Hope and Change. Forward. <insert more feel good slogans>
 
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michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Well clearly they have been unable to channel all that brainpower into economic competitiveness. What would you attribute Arkansas's failure to compete to?



You're asking why senators in deeply Republican states aren't campaigning on an issue that Republicans rabidly oppose? I figured the answer to that would be obvious.

The problem here is that you assume that Republicans oppose the ACA on the merits, which is laughable at best. It has been repeatedly shown on here in god knows how many threads that Republicans are frequently completely unaware of what the ACA actually is or does.

Don't worry, in a few years when the crazies die down you will see not only Democrats in red states campaigning on it but you'll see Republicans shift tone into how they can 'fix' the ACA. Maybe a few decades from now they will paint themselves as the 'protectors' of the ACA. That's the natural progression. For a good example look at Medicare. Republicans went from OMGCOMMUNISM to attacking Obama for making cuts to the program.

Tell me again which party had a paul ryan look alike pushing grandma off a clif?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
Thread title "Polls show obamacare wave building against senate democrats"

Any further comment about the topic of the thread?

Sure, it's a story attempting to talk about an election nearly a year away from a source that is known for blatant disregard for truth as well as hilariously inaccurate election predictions in the past. As I linked earlier in this thread go have fun by googling "breitbart Mitt Romney victory". lol.

Deeply Republican? How long Louisiana was under Democrat rule until recently?

Sure, we will wait and see. Like how we saw "you can keep your insurance. Period" from our great leader, eh? :D

Not only has a Democratic presidential nominee not won Louisiana in almost two decades and ignoring the whole Southern Democrat thing, as best as I can tell people up for election in 2014 are attempting to win in 2014, not at some nebulous point in the past. Unless we are teleporting Mary Landrieu back a few decades it is probably in her best interests to campaign in Louisiana as it exists today.

I think you just want to rage about democrats some, which is fine I guess.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
Tell me again which party had a paul ryan look alike pushing grandma off a clif?

Neither party had that, a liberal nonprofit had that. If you really want to get into odious things made by political nonprofit groups, I can start linking all sorts of hideous conservative nonprofit publications.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
Because people of Arkansas are too stupid to talk to about complicated issues like health insurance markets. :D

Ah, there's the "inclusiveness" we all love from our friends on the left. The same buffoon who used the words "sane legislature" when referring to California too.
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Sure, it's a story attempting to talk about an election nearly a year away from a source that is known for blatant disregard for truth as well as hilariously inaccurate election predictions in the past. As I linked earlier in this thread go have fun by googling "breitbart Mitt Romney victory". lol.



Not only has a Democratic presidential nominee not won Louisiana in almost two decades and ignoring the whole Southern Democrat thing, as best as I can tell people up for election in 2014 are attempting to win in 2014, not at some nebulous point in the past. Unless we are teleporting Mary Landrieu back a few decades it is probably in her best interests to campaign in Louisiana as it exists today.

I think you just want to rage about democrats some, which is fine I guess.


Try to stay on topic, ok? Speaking of not being too bright. Which Senator said "we have to pass the bill to see what in the bill"? And the people of that state keep re elect that idiot? Funny how you guys did not mention that, how smart they were.


I just did a quick check and Governorships and Senators of La were under Democrat rule overwhelmingly until recently. The list of shitty cities I posted above, what was the overwhelmingly party affiliation...say..Detroit or New Orleans?

Anyway, enough of derailing of the thread. My main point was Democrat Senators (Mary and Mark) with next year election are running away from their own votes for Obamacare. Those are facts.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
Try to stay on topic, ok? Speaking of not being too bright. Which Senator said "we have to pass the bill to see what in the bill"? And the people of that state keep re elect that idiot? Funny how you guys did not mention that, how smart they were.

Speaking of not being too bright, the person that said it wasn't a senator and she never said that she needed to pass the bill in order to see what's in it, she said that the people would see what's in it once passed.

And while I find it kind of funny for someone to try and compare Arkansas to San Francisco in terms of intellectual firepower as a general matter, it's even funnier when that person gets the facts wrong in their attack.

I just did a quick check and Governorships and Senators of La were under Democrat rule overwhelmingly until recently. The list of shitty cities I posted above, what was the overwhelmingly party affiliation...say..Detroit?

Anyway, enough of derailing of the thread. My main point was Democrat Senators (Mary and Mark) with next year election are running away from their own votes for Obamacare. Those are facts.

There's a reason why Cook PVI uses presidential election numbers as the best test of the real partisanship of a state. Mitt Romney won Louisiana by 17 points. If you genuinely believe that Louisiana is a secret Democratic stronghold and that Democrats should run far to the left there I would love for you to create a thread about why that makes sense.

Yes, Democrats in very right wing states do not emphasize the left leaning votes they take. Similarly, Republicans in very left wing states do not emphasize their right leaning votes. How is this at all surprising?
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Speaking of not being too bright, the person that said it wasn't a senator and she never said that she needed to pass the bill in order to see what's in it, she said that the people would see what's in it once passed.

And while I find it kind of funny for someone to try and compare Arkansas to San Francisco in terms of intellectual firepower as a general matter, it's even funnier when that person gets the facts wrong in their attack.



There's a reason why Cook PVI uses presidential election numbers as the best test of the real partisanship of a state. Mitt Romney won Louisiana by 17 points. If you genuinely believe that Louisiana is a secret Democratic stronghold and that Democrats should run far to the left there I would love for you to create a thread about why that makes sense.

Yes, Democrats in very right wing states do not emphasize the left leaning votes they take. Similarly, Republicans in very left wing states do not emphasize their right leaning votes. How is this at all surprising?

Like Governor "Moonbeam" Brown? :D If you guys want to talk about how stupid the voters are, we can sit here all day, go back and forth, and it won't be settled.

Again. Read. It. Carefullly.

Did I bring up the topic of how smart or how dumb the voters are? Yes or No????

Again. Did you see my previous post? Here it is again.

My main point was Democrat Senators (Mary and Mark) with next year election are running away from their own votes for Obamacare. Those are facts.

Was my statement above wrong or right? If it is wrong, feel free to post a few clips of ads for Mary and/or Mark that they talked about how great Obamacare is.

Can't debate with facts. Diverse. Deflect. Nice try.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
Like Governor "Moonbeam" Brown? :D If you guys want to talk about how stupid the voters are, we can sit here all day and it won't be settled.

Again. Read. It. Carefullly.

Did I bring up the topic of how smart or how dumb the voters are? Yes or No????

Again. Did you see my previous post? Here it is again.

Governor Brown has now been a very effective governor of California not once, but twice. Seems pretty great to me. Nice job ignoring the fact that you didn't know the difference between the Speaker of the House and a Senator, btw.

Was my statement above wrong or right? If it is wrong, feel free to post a few clips of ads for Mary and/or Mark that they talked about how great Obamacare is.

Can't debate with facts. Diverse. Deflect. Nice try.

I already answered this, you just don't like the answer you got because it shows that your point is pretty vacuous. People from both parties do not emphasize their left (or right, respectively) leaning votes when they occupy office in states dominated by the other party. This isn't unique to the ACA, it's not an interesting insight, it's just the same way things have always been.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Personally I have zero faith that handed a gift horse the Pubbies can go another year without losing it or setting it on fire. Together with the circular firing squad, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is what the GOP does best.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,783
6,187
126
I never said they were all that. You were the one that brough up how dumb they were, totally off topic of the thread. Can't debate with facts, diverse, diverse, diverse, deflect, deflect, eh?
It's not off topic. The answer to the question of why Pryor isn't running Obamacare ads is because the Arkansas electorate is too dumb to understand the nuances of health insurance market reform, especially in a 30 second add.
Arkansas would benefit from Medicare expansion and Marketplaces.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Governor Brown has now been a very effective governor of California not once, but twice. Seems pretty great to me. Nice job ignoring the fact that you didn't know the difference between the Speaker of the House and a Senator, btw.



I already answered this, you just don't like the answer you got because it shows that your point is pretty vacuous. People from both parties do not emphasize their left (or right, respectively) leaning votes when they occupy office in states dominated by the other party. This isn't unique to the ACA, it's not an interesting insight, it's just the same way things have always been.

Nope, you did not answer it. You gave some pathetic and lame excuses =! answers.

I saw with my own eyes of ads (TV and print ads) from Pryor and so far, not once that he mentioned anything about Obamacare.

Mary is running away from her Obamacare vote with her "you can keep your insurance" new bill.

Both of them did not mention anything about how they voted for Obamacare (again, both on TV and print ads). You think they would stay so silent if Obamacare was a huge success?

Those are facts. Funny how you guys "forgot" to mention that in your posts.

Uh Huh!!!
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
83,716
47,399
136
Nope, you did not answer it. You gave some pathetic and lame excuses =! answers.

I saw with my own eyes of ads from Pryor and so far, not once that he mentioned anything about Obamacare.

Mary is running away from her vote with her "you can keep your insurance" bill.

Both of them did not mention anything about how they voted for Obamacare. You think they would stay silent if Obamacare was a huge success?

Those are facts. Funny how you guys "forgot" to mention that in your posts.

Uh Huh!!!

There is literally no development with the ACA that could have occurred by this time that would make Landrieu or Pryor run on it as an explicit positive at this time.

I'm not really sure what else to say about it as your question is "why are the democrats in republican dominated states acting the same way that everyone acts in a state that's dominated by the other party?" The question answers itself. This is campaigning and elections 101. When the national party isn't popular in your state, campaign on local issues.

Again, you don't like the answer because inconvenient facts like that would challenge the way you want to think about it. Meh. Nothing else really to say.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Nope, you did not answer it. You gave some pathetic and lame excuses =! answers.

I saw with my own eyes of ads (TV and print ads) from Pryor and so far, not once that he mentioned anything about Obamacare.

Mary is running away from her Obamacare vote with her "you can keep your insurance" new bill.

Both of them did not mention anything about how they voted for Obamacare (again, both on TV and print ads). You think they would stay so silent if Obamacare was a huge success?

Those are facts. Funny how you guys "forgot" to mention that in your posts.

Uh Huh!!!

Lord you are exceedingly slow.

Pryor not mentioning ACA in Arkansas is about is stunning as Kevin McCarthy not campaigning on Tea Party principles in his district in CA. They're exceedingly unpopular ideas/movements in said states. News at 11.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,783
6,187
126
Ah, there's the "inclusiveness" we all love from our friends on the left. The same buffoon who used the words "sane legislature" when referring to California too.

Sorry I don't fit your stereotype of the left. I am sure you'll get over it.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
First of all, it's unlikely that your insurance is going up because of the new rules. Health insurance rates have gone up every year for the last three decades, by around 15% annually. That's part of the problem that exchanges were designed to address. More insurers competing over more people should slow the rate of increase. Unfortunately, a large number of states decided not to build their own exchanges. It will take more than two months to see whether the exchanges can stabilize or slow the rising costs of healthcare.

Secondly, it's absurd to think that your taxes will go down because we're spending healthcare dollars on X instead of Y. The last F-22 Raptor was built in 2005. None of us got a tax break because we weren't buying F-22s any more. The DoD spent the money someplace else.

If my insurance goes up more than your 15%; then is must be that I am paying more than before ObamaCare. A $400/month policy that goes up to $500 might be normal. When it does up to $600-650; that extra $150 is due to subsidizing twice someone else.

The purpose of my comment was that people are saying that instead of spending money on the ER for an uninsured; spend it on the subsidy for their insurance. But I am still having to do both; spend it on the ER (I get no refund due to less is going directly to the ER) and subsidizing others.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
Lord you are exceedingly slow.

Pryor not mentioning ACA in Arkansas is about is stunning as Kevin McCarthy not campaigning on Tea Party principles in his district in CA. They're exceedingly unpopular ideas/movements in said states. News at 11.

I would reply to you but I would be like this like you..."herrrrpppppp deeerrrrrppppp" :D