Polls show obamacare wave building against senate democrats

[Doc Savage Fan]

Actually, this act guaranteeing coverage for pre-existing condition, as does Obamacare, was a bold faced lie.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2300/text

Straight from the bill's text:


So basically this bill doesn't do much of anything to reform health care.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-pre-existing-health-condition/

 

[theeedude]

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-pre-existing-health-condition/

I was talking about the GOP bill. It would repeal Obamacare's pre-existing condition protection and replace it with a whole lot of nothing.

 

[sactoking]

Actually, this act guaranteeing coverage for pre-existing condition, as does Obamacare, was a bold faced lie.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr2300/text

Straight from the bill's text:


So basically this bill doesn't do much of anything to reform health care.

The section you quoted references guaranteed issue and community rating, neither of which is the same thing as no pre-existing conditions.

I'm not saying that the GOP bill is any good (I haven't read it) all I'm saying is that based on the information presented in the thread a bill with a pre-ex exclusion could still work even absent an individual mandate.

 

[theeedude]

The section you quoted references guaranteed issue and community rating, neither of which is the same thing as no pre-existing conditions.

I'm not saying that the GOP bill is any good (I haven't read it) all I'm saying is that based on the information presented in the thread a bill with a pre-ex exclusion could still work even absent an individual mandate.

Guaranteed issue means insurance company has to cover you if you have pre-existing condition. Community rating means they can't charge you more for it. Take guaranteed issue and community rating out, and insurance companies are free to not insure you, or, if they decide to insure, to charge you so much you can't afford it. Basically the very issues Obamacare fixes would be back.

 

[piasabird]

No such thing as a moderate Democrat. All The Democrats even in Missouri voted for Obamacare. We need to kick every person who voted for it out of office and then charge the judges that upheld it in the supreme court with crimes against the people.

 

[sactoking]

Guaranteed issue means insurance company has to cover you if you have pre-existing condition. Community rating means they can't charge you more for it. Take guaranteed issue and community rating out, and insurance companies are free to not insure you, or, if they decide to insure, to charge you so much you can't afford it. Basically the very issues Obamacare fixes would be back.

No.

Guaranteed availability means that any plan sold in a service area must be offered to everyone who otherwise qualifies for the plan.

Guaranteed issue means that if you apply for a policy the insurer cannot deny your application.

A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted.

Community rating deals with premiums. There are two main types: "pure" community rating requires everyone to pay the same premium rate and "modified" community rating allows a few factors to be considered. (The ACA is modified community rating)

Each of these four conditions can exist legislatively on an independent basis from the others.

 

[Daverino]

No such thing as a moderate Democrat. All The Democrats even in Missouri voted for Obamacare. We need to kick every person who voted for it out of office and then charge the judges that upheld it in the supreme court with crimes against the people.

Those type of things don't happen in a democracy. Perhaps you should overthrow our government first and install an autocratic dictatorship or a fundamentalist religious state first.

Please post again when you've got that underway.

 

[irishScott]

No such thing as a moderate Democrat. All The Democrats even in Missouri voted for Obamacare. We need to kick every person who voted for it out of office and then charge the judges that upheld it in the supreme court with crimes against the people.

Applying that logic to all of the bad legislation over the last 10 years, and we wouldn't have any government at all.

 

[werepossum]

Applying that logic to all of the bad legislation over the last 10 years, and we wouldn't have any government at all.

Or we'd just have a new government every six years.

 

[theeedude]

No.

Guaranteed availability means that any plan sold in a service area must be offered to everyone who otherwise qualifies for the plan.

Guaranteed issue means that if you apply for a policy the insurer cannot deny your application.

A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted.

Community rating deals with premiums. There are two main types: "pure" community rating requires everyone to pay the same premium rate and "modified" community rating allows a few factors to be considered. (The ACA is modified community rating)

Each of these four conditions can exist legislatively on an independent basis from the others.

I don't see how what you are saying is not just a rephrasing of what I am saying.

 

[werepossum]

I don't see how what you are saying is not just a rephrasing of what I am saying.

Need to read it carefully. For example, a particular policy might be must-issue and still exclude pre-existing conditions, so that the insurer must sell you a policy but can deny all claims for pre-existing conditions. Generally this is for a limited time, typical 12 - 24 months. A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted. You get a policy, it immediately covers your pre-existing condition costs. And of course, guaranteed availability does not mean you are going to get a policy, merely that insurers can't sell your neighbor a policy and refuse to sell you the same policy if you qualify. It's meant to stop discrimination, not guarantee you a policy.

Community rating means your premiums must be the same as everyone else's with the same risk factors, which may be everyone with a pulse or may consider many factors. It may require your premiums to be the same as everyone in your community, but not necessarily. A modified community rating still allows for different rates to be charged. For instance, Obamacare allows smokers to be charged more. If you are a smoker with emphysema, your premiums must be the same as those of a smoker without emphysema, but not necessarily the same as those of a non-smoker.

Read Sactoking's response carefully and you'll see the differences between terms.

 

[sactoking]

Guaranteed issue means insurance company has to cover you if you have pre-existing condition.

Guaranteed issue means that if you apply for a policy the insurer cannot deny your application.

A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted.

You're mixing up your terms.

 

[IGBT]

Even a smart Democrat must certainly understand by now, that if they intend to run their 2014 campaigns on Obamacare, they might has well hand the Senate over to the Republicans. The people who still want Obamacare are as low of a percentage of the overall constituents, as the President's approval rating, meaning most of Americans don't want the ACA or this President. That will impact the midterms and when the Repubs take the Senate, the victory will be largely weighted on the disdain for the ACA. Getting the likes of Harry Reid out of the Senate will be like giving America a vacation.

democrats are waking up to the fact that the obama adopted a political strategy of lies and deceit and he had to lie about "obama care" to get democrat acceptance. He created a public policy based and founded on lies and liberal mythology. "obama Care" isn't insurance..it's medical welfare with death panels.

 

[Daverino]

democrats are waking up to the fact that the obama adopted a political strategy of lies and deceit and he had to lie about "obama care" to get democrat acceptance. He created a public policy based and founded on lies and liberal mythology. "obama Care" isn't insurance..it's medical welfare with death panels.

Haha, no.

Seriously, no.

Democrats are not 'waking up' to any Republican fantasy no matter how hard you close your eyes and clench your tiny fists. That's why Romney, who ran against Obamacare in 2012 was trounced. That is why Virginia voters put in a Democratic governor.

 

[monovillage]

Haha, no.

Seriously, no.

Democrats are not 'waking up' to any Republican fantasy no matter how hard you close your eyes and clench your tiny fists. That's why Romney, who ran against Obamacare in 2012 was trounced. That is why Virginia voters put in a Democratic governor.

Haha, yes.

Seriously, yes.

That's why the polls show support for this President to be so low and dropping lower.

 

[Jhhnn]

No.

Guaranteed availability means that any plan sold in a service area must be offered to everyone who otherwise qualifies for the plan.

Guaranteed issue means that if you apply for a policy the insurer cannot deny your application.

A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted.

Community rating deals with premiums. There are two main types: "pure" community rating requires everyone to pay the same premium rate and "modified" community rating allows a few factors to be considered. (The ACA is modified community rating)

Each of these four conditions can exist legislatively on an independent basis from the others.

You speak of it as it could be, not as it is. Senseamp's description is functional wrt current law & implementation.

 

[Jhhnn]

democrats are waking up to the fact that the obama adopted a political strategy of lies and deceit and he had to lie about "obama care" to get democrat acceptance. He created a public policy based and founded on lies and liberal mythology. "obama Care" isn't insurance..it's medical welfare with death panels.

Repeating lies as a mantra doesn't really make them true, other than perhaps in your own mind.

"Death Panels" is just a tell for greater delusion left unsaid.

 

[theeedude]

Need to read it carefully. For example, a particular policy might be must-issue and still exclude pre-existing conditions, so that the insurer must sell you a policy but can deny all claims for pre-existing conditions. Generally this is for a limited time, typical 12 - 24 months. A pre-existing condition ban means that insurers cannot exclude coverage for a condition if it existed prior to the insurance application being submitted. You get a policy, it immediately covers your pre-existing condition costs. And of course, guaranteed availability does not mean you are going to get a policy, merely that insurers can't sell your neighbor a policy and refuse to sell you the same policy if you qualify. It's meant to stop discrimination, not guarantee you a policy.

Community rating means your premiums must be the same as everyone else's with the same risk factors, which may be everyone with a pulse or may consider many factors. It may require your premiums to be the same as everyone in your community, but not necessarily. A modified community rating still allows for different rates to be charged. For instance, Obamacare allows smokers to be charged more. If you are a smoker with emphysema, your premiums must be the same as those of a smoker without emphysema, but not necessarily the same as those of a non-smoker.

Read Sactoking's response carefully and you'll see the differences between terms.

OK, now given that nomenclature, please compare the Republican claims:

EPFA accomplishes these gains while providing guaranteed coverage for pre-existing conditions, as does Obamacare.

To the text of their bill:

Sec 3.
No mandate of guaranteed issue or community rating

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to provide a mandate for guaranteed issue or community rating in the private insurance market.

To me it means:
- The insurance company does not have to offer you coverage for your pre-existing condition
- If they do, they can charge a lot more for it than you can afford

So it is nowhere near Obamacare's protections.

 

[Daverino]

Haha, yes.

Seriously, yes.

That's why the polls show support for this President to be so low and dropping lower.

That's the same thinking that had Republicans befuddled after losing the 2012 presidential election. I encourage you to keep thinking that way, for my benefit.

 

[IGBT]

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-i...xpansion-of-the-welfare-state-in-u-s-history/

According to Obamacarefacts.com (a pro-Obamacare website), Obamacare could add 21 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls over the next decade.

And according to a report that came out earlier this month, 17 million Americans will qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

So when you add those numbers together (21 million plus 17 million), you come up with a total of 38 million more people that the government will soon be providing health care for.

And that does not even take into account more than 20 million elderly Americans that will be added to the Medicare program by 2025 as our population rapidly ages.

 

[werepossum]

You speak of it as it could be, not as it is. Senseamp's description is functional wrt current law & implementation.

He is defining terms, which exist independently of Obamacare.

OK, now given that nomenclature, please compare the Republican claims:

To the text of their bill:


To me it means:
- The insurance company does not have to offer you coverage for your pre-existing condition
- If they do, they can charge a lot more for it than you can afford

So it is nowhere near Obamacare's protections.

See Sactoking's explanation of terms.

I do agree that both guaranteed issue and community ratings are important guarantees. The only reason I can see for specifically leaving them out is to allow insurance companies to not offer you a policy or charge you more for that policy based on pre-existing conditions while denying that is the reason. Haven't read it, but that little blurb makes it sound like a bad bill.

As far as charging a lot more than you can afford, that already seems to be the case for most people with Obamacare unless "someone else" is picking up the tab.

 

[First]

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-i...xpansion-of-the-welfare-state-in-u-s-history/

According to Obamacarefacts.com (a pro-Obamacare website), Obamacare could add 21 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls over the next decade.

And according to a report that came out earlier this month, 17 million Americans will qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

So when you add those numbers together (21 million plus 17 million), you come up with a total of 38 million more people that the government will soon be providing health care for.

And that does not even take into account more than 20 million elderly Americans that will be added to the Medicare program by 2025 as our population rapidly ages.

lol holy shit, you just linked to infowars.com

 

[IGBT]

lol holy shit, you just linked to infowars.com

I'll bet you have the "vapors".

 

[Daverino]

http://www.infowars.com/obamacare-i...xpansion-of-the-welfare-state-in-u-s-history/

According to Obamacarefacts.com (a pro-Obamacare website), Obamacare could add 21 million more Americans to the Medicaid rolls over the next decade.

And according to a report that came out earlier this month, 17 million Americans will qualify for Obamacare subsidies.

So when you add those numbers together (21 million plus 17 million), you come up with a total of 38 million more people that the government will soon be providing health care for.

And that does not even take into account more than 20 million elderly Americans that will be added to the Medicare program by 2025 as our population rapidly ages.

You're under the assumption that the 38 million people in your equation have never gotten free healthcare and we're just adding 38 million new lips to the government tit. You couldn't be more wrong.

As has been said over and over and OVER, everyone in America gets free healthcare. It's just that the poor get it in the most insanely overpriced and inefficient way possible by going to the ER when they need a doctor. Who ends up paying for that? The government and the insured. Your tax dollars are currently at work paying for the poor to get free access to medicine.

 

[boomerang]

OMG*, another link not approved by central planning! Please people, only link to sites approved by the progressive left. Do it voluntarily or eventually you will be forced. Remember that state-run media is the only media that can be trusted.

*OMG stands for 'Oh My Goodness'. Do NOT confuse is with a declaration towards any false deity. The government provides all and fulfills every need. We need nothing else.