POLL: What is the most discriminated group in America today?

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

4) My sister-in-law told me that she could not get accepted at some medical schools, but that non-whites with lesser credentials were getting accepted. She graduated from medical school in Ireland last week. She does not appear to be a failure. It is logically impossible for me to debunk her personal experience (i.e. I can either believe her or not like when someone tells you that they had a dream). I choose to believe her.

If the requirement to get into Medical school was to have a 3.8 GPA, and your sister-in-law got a 3.5 and didn't get in... i would consider that a failure. She didn't get in because she didn't meet the requirements... NOT because she's white.
. . .

The fact that you guys think that white males are THE MOST DISCRIMINATED group in America just boggles the mind.

I don't myself, just that whites are the only group that is explicitly and legally discriminated against in schools, scholarship programs, small-business loans, government contracts, and in hiring.

I accept it as a necessary evil, but you apparently can't see the difference between equal opportunity and discrimination against whiles (slots only open to less-qualified minority candidates) done to correct past injustices.

And no, I'm not "a failure" myself, and not speaking out of bitterness. I did quite well in college and make a comfortable living as a software developer.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Maetryx
1) I don't think there is much discimination going on in this country to anyone.
2) I am not (nor did I claim to be) a victim.
3) The fact remains that if I am a black female (all else being equal) I would have an even greater marketability than I already enjoy as an engineer with 10 years experience. Since there isn't much discrimination going on, this is an example of a type that is occuring: artificial value placed on non-whiteness and non-maleness.
4) My sister-in-law told me that she could not get accepted at some medical schools, but that non-whites with lesser credentials were getting accepted. She graduated from medical school in Ireland last week. She does not appear to be a failure. It is logically impossible for me to debunk her personal experience (i.e. I can either believe her or not like when someone tells you that they had a dream). I choose to believe her.

that discrimination does not exist is pure Pull out of @ss type facts that make these arguments so annoying.

WHAT do you base this opinion that NO discrimination goes on in the country on?? do you have any statistical evidence that can counter the fact that minorities are SIGNIFICANTLY disproportionately represented, especially in management positions?? How many black head coaches are there in College or Pro basketball?? vs how many black players?

and that's an area that is EXTREMELY visible and SHOULD be dominated by blacks. IF blacks cannot get fairly represented in such a highly visible field what are their chances in less visible fields??

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Maetryx

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

The fact that you guys think that white males are THE MOST DISCRIMINATED group in America just boggles the mind.

Perhaps we're wrong. I'm coming from the angle that affirmative action, and preferences in government contracts for women and minority owned businesses are part of the legal structure in our country. Therefore, the number of occurences of preference given to a non-white under affirmative action, or a minority/women owned business is something that could probably be calculated.

Assuming that preference for non-whites is discrimination against whites, then I think that number is quite high. If I gave preference to whites for hiring or letting contracts, I assume that it would be generally agreed that I was discriminating against non-white groups.

Just because affirmative action exists, doesn't mean all white people get affected by it. And i think you guys are overexaggerating the extent that AA occurs.

You were whining that a black female would be much more marketable than you, a white male... that MIGHT be true. But even if she got hired inplace of a white male, you can bet that her salary would be lower than the white male, and she wouldn't be as likely to move up the chain of command within the company. But besides, how often have you been in the instance where a black female were chosen over you, based solely on race? You guys are all paranoid. You think just because it can happen, that it does and has. No, if it does happen, it's happening to those who are barely on the line of acceptable anyways... if they were exceptional, they wouldn't be worrying about such things. So if you're barely just making the cut, how do you know you're not making it because of skill instead of race?

Now look at the other minority groups... it is a PROVEN fact that people generally consider women less technically skilled (and this happens unconsciously as well), even if they have the same equivalent degree. If a company already has their 'quotas' of women, who are they likely to hire, a woman or a male, if all things being equal? Chances are, the male would get hired.

Of course discrimination happens across all groups... but to think that white males are the MOST discriminated? That's so absurd. You think that maybe the 1% of whites that encounter a situation of AA outnumbers the daily discrimination that gays, muslims, or any other groups go through DAILY?

As for your sister-in-law? Why did she go all the way to Ireland? Why didn't she come to Canada? Canada doesn't practice AA.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Maetryx

4) My sister-in-law told me that she could not get accepted at some medical schools, but that non-whites with lesser credentials were getting accepted. She graduated from medical school in Ireland last week. She does not appear to be a failure. It is logically impossible for me to debunk her personal experience (i.e. I can either believe her or not like when someone tells you that they had a dream). I choose to believe her.

Top med schools in the US have admissions rates of ~5%, so it's hard to say.

Anecdotal evidence really means nothing.

 

[Marshallj]

I would say after 9/11 that Middle Easterners are the most discriminated against. There seems to be a public backlash against them. I'll include Indians too, because many people see an Indian person and can't tell the different between them and an Arab.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
How many black head coaches are there in College or Pro basketball?? vs how many black players? and that's an area that is EXTREMELY visible and SHOULD be dominated by blacks. IF blacks cannot get fairly represented in such a highly visible field what are their chances in less visible fields??

Question: Why do you think there are so many blacks in the NBA, far exceeding the percentage of blacks in the USA?

Just as Grimlock sarcastically said to others about percentages of white employees at other occupations, "I'm sure its because white people are just smarter and harder working though", do you think the NBA is predominantly black because they're just better/harder working, or do you think it's due to other reasons?

If university professors are predominantly white (far beyond the national demographic) due to racist hiring policies, then explain why the NBA is predominantly black.

 

[Looney]

I accept it as a necessary evil, but you apparently can't see the difference between equal opportunity and discrimination against whiles (slots only open to less-qualified minority candidates) done to correct past injustices.

First off, i don't believe that AA should exist. It doesn't in Canada, and we do just fine.

But AA isn't done to correct past injustices... it is to prevent current injustices. You REALLY think, that if there were absolutely no AA and 'quotas', that all hiring practices would be equal and fair? That there would be absolutely NO discrimination?

The fact that women make lower wages than men doing the exact same work should answer that it would and does exist.

I'm not saying that whites dont' get discriminated, but to say that they are the MOST discriminated group??? LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

I'm not saying that whites dont' get discriminated, but to say that they are the MOST discriminated group??? LOLOLOLOLOL

I don't know why someone would say that whites are the *most* discriminated againt group. I'm thinking that since most of the people who voted are white, they simply voted for themselves.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

We Nefs are always getting p!ssed on.

- M4H

 

[Mani]

The poor.

 

[Maetryx]

Originally posted by: MindStorm
I'll tell what. Until white males are lynched, have one of their customs illegalized to curtail more of their own people from immigrating, all suspected of being terrorists and are treated as such, paid diddly-squat to do grueling work, tied to a fence and beaten to death for being sexually attracted to a certain group of people, and paid 20% less than women, then I may just reconsider the highly popular belief that white males may be the most discriminated against today.

It is this quoted post that helps establish that discrimination in this country is largely overcome. MindStorm used extreme examples from two or three generations ago to try and make a point about how much discrimination is going on nowadays. He also used the example of low wages for menial labor, which applies equally to all races. More so in other countries (homogenous ones too).

[An aside: No country is obligated to take immigrants at all, much less write laws that are deferential to foreign customs and cultures.]

It is unfortunate that people are stuck in 40 year old mindsets concerning race and racism. It's as if the Civil Rights movement never occured. The traditional, established thinking on this issue is that whites are responsible for failure in some of America's minority groups, even though other minority groups have equaled or even surpassed white socioeconomic status. This is due to institutional discrmination, an invisible force that occurs even when whites are individually trying not to discriminate, and have even established preferences for non-whites to try to correct for this institutional racism.

Magically, it would seem, Asians, Jews, West Indies blacks are immune to this institutional racism.

So long as the outdated dogmatic view on race is orthodox, we're not going to get very far in these types of discussions.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
How many black head coaches are there in College or Pro basketball?? vs how many black players? and that's an area that is EXTREMELY visible and SHOULD be dominated by blacks. IF blacks cannot get fairly represented in such a highly visible field what are their chances in less visible fields??

Question: Why do you think there are so many blacks in the NBA, far exceeding the percentage of blacks in the USA?

Just as Grimlock sarcastically said to others about percentages of white employees at other occupations, "I'm sure its because white people are just smarter and harder working though", do you think the NBA is predominantly black because they're just better/harder working, or do you think it's due to other reasons?

If university professors are predominantly white (far beyond the national demographic) due to racist hiring policies, then explain why the NBA is predominantly black.

I hope ur not so foolish as to think that there are more blacks in the NBA because of some Stereotype.

Blacks ARE better (smarter and harder working) at basketball than whites. This is not a stereotype, it is usually true. Blacks are disproportionately represented because they represent the best chance of winning. The more appropriate question is WHY it took so long for there to be black acceptance in Sports, Jackie Robinson etc.

beyond the players the next level is managment. yes, discrimination DOES exist.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Blacks ARE better (smarter and harder working) at basketball than whites. This is not a stereotype, it is usually true. Blacks are disproportionately represented because they represent the best chance of winning. The more appropriate question is WHY it took so long for there to be black acceptance in Sports, Jackie Robinson etc.

Ok, I'll agree with that answer.

Next question: Since we both agree on that, do you think that there is any area at all where whites will be better? Any occupations, sports, etc. that whites will have an inherent advantage in?

 

[Looney]

Magically, it would seem, Asians, Jews, West Indies blacks are immune to this institutional racism.

You have got to be kidding? It does happen. Have you looked at the hospitals or engineering companies and seeing what the proportion of asians are? Then look at management and up, and what are the numbers like up there?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Magically, it would seem, Asians, Jews, West Indies blacks are immune to this institutional racism.

You have got to be kidding? It does happen. Have you looked at the hospitals or engineering companies and seeing what the proportion of asians are? Then look at management and up, and what are the numbers like up there?

You're ignoring the age of the people involved.

Discrimination was rampant 20-30 years ago when the people now in upper management were being hired and promoted. Middle-management was almost all-white at the time promotions to upper management were handed out.

It takes time (as I mention earlier) for the old white racists from the discrimination-is-OK era to die off and be replaced by more diverse management, but it is happening.

The same in the house and senate -- look at the old guard and they're 99% white male. Look at the senators and congresspeople elected for the first time over the last decade and they are tremendously more diverse.

(ed) consider that a 60-year-old CEO entered the job market in 1963 and many current senators and congressmen as old or even older.

 

[Looney]

Discrimination was rampant 20-30 years ago when the people now in upper management were being hired and promoted. Middle-management was almost all-white at the time promotions to upper management were handed out.

Very good point actually!

But do you think without AA, things would have changed?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic

Discrimination was rampant 20-30 years ago when the people now in upper management were being hired and promoted. Middle-management was almost all-white at the time promotions to upper management were handed out.

Very good point actually!

But do you think without AA, things would have changed?

Yes, but much more slowly. The civil rights movement changed the thinking of (much of) a generation, and they passed that thinking on to their children. Even whites who felt they were better now knew they weren't supposed to think that way or act that way in hiring.

I think AA is even still needed in the US, but that discrimination is starting to move more towards being class / economic based -- poor white kids will need the chance at a good education just as much as other races.

 

[Dragnov]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: LeeTJ
How many black head coaches are there in College or Pro basketball?? vs how many black players? and that's an area that is EXTREMELY visible and SHOULD be dominated by blacks. IF blacks cannot get fairly represented in such a highly visible field what are their chances in less visible fields??

Question: Why do you think there are so many blacks in the NBA, far exceeding the percentage of blacks in the USA?

Just as Grimlock sarcastically said to others about percentages of white employees at other occupations, "I'm sure its because white people are just smarter and harder working though", do you think the NBA is predominantly black because they're just better/harder working, or do you think it's due to other reasons?

If university professors are predominantly white (far beyond the national demographic) due to racist hiring policies, then explain why the NBA is predominantly black.

I hope ur not so foolish as to think that there are more blacks in the NBA because of some Stereotype.

Blacks ARE better (smarter and harder working) at basketball than whites. This is not a stereotype, it is usually true. Blacks are disproportionately represented because they represent the best chance of winning. The more appropriate question is WHY it took so long for there to be black acceptance in Sports, Jackie Robinson etc.

beyond the players the next level is managment. yes, discrimination DOES exist.

I do not agree with LeeTJ on that statement. Rather, I will say that blacks disproprotionately are in professional sports because it seems the best option for them. Historically and currently, the chances of them being able succeed simply through the system is still very little. As I said, if you look at government positions, business excutives, etc... they are all made up of rich, white people. So now, they must aspire to other areas, which is the only way they can break out of this cycle of poverty. How many rich white people aspire to joing professional sports? None. They have no reason to. (And yes I agree that these minorities need to be held more accountable and rebelling against such preconcieved notions but that does not mean we can't help.)

People talk about boo hoo this was all in the past. The Civil War didn't end discrimination although it did progress it. The Civil Rights movement didn't end discrimination, but it did progress it. Now you people bring up tards like Jesse Jackson who is probalby as racist as others out there. If you don't like being represented by these rich white powerful people in society today then don't believe all black people are represented by people like Jesse Jackson. But guess what! These rich white powerful people dominate the upper class TODAY. Who the hell do you think are the beneficiaries of that? Rich white people! Do you think this cycle is just mysteriously dissapear?

And no I am not for affirmative action and such as they are probably causing more problems than help solve them, especially with all these tards talking about this BS like reverse discrimination. Oh right, when was the last you were subject of a hate crime?

I don't deny that the average white male experiences discrimation, but idiots who think they are subject of the most discrimation because incessant whining from certain BS "civil right/equality" groups, give me a break. Were your grandparents and parents kept down in society? You know they probably worked hard for their status, good for them, but guess at whose expense that was from? I mean it had absolutely no effect on current society today huh? I mean theres no such thing as alumniship, inheriting land, preferential treament in high positions through connections, blah blah blah.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: Moralpanic


But AA isn't done to correct past injustices... it is to prevent current injustices. You REALLY think, that if there were absolutely no AA and 'quotas', that all hiring practices would be equal and fair? That there would be absolutely NO discrimination?

And with AA there is discrimination..what's your point?

 

[Looney]

Yes, but much more slowly. The civil rights movement changed the thinking of (much of) a generation, and they passed that thinking on to their children. Even whites who felt they were better now knew they weren't supposed to think that way or act that way in hiring.

I think AA is even still needed in the US, but that discrimination is starting to move more towards being class / economic based -- poor white kids will need the chance at a good education just as much as other races.

I'm not sure i agree. Even today, you clearly see discrimination... the most evident is that women get paid less than men for doing the same work.

I don't believe in AA myself. Like what this thread shows, when you force people into doing something, there's going to be a backlash... and in this instance, white people are seeing themselves as getting discriminated... even though it probably never happened to them, the thought of it just scares them (yet they're oblivious to the fact that minorities face this almost daily).

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Syringer

Originally posted by: Moralpanic


But AA isn't done to correct past injustices... it is to prevent current injustices. You REALLY think, that if there were absolutely no AA and 'quotas', that all hiring practices would be equal and fair? That there would be absolutely NO discrimination?

And with AA there is discrimination..what's your point?

I guess you haven't been following your own thread? I agree, there is discrimination with AA... but it's not as widespread as people believe. Heck, there are people here who have NEVER been discriminated by AA (just read the damn thread), yet they still think that white people are the most discriminated group.

 

[yellowperil]

I think gays are the most discriminated-against group now, just because in some parts of the country it's still legal to discriminate openly against them. There was that one statute passed by the CO state legislature in the mid-90's, banning any anti-discrimination acts protecting gays. It was eventually overturned by a narrow majority in the Supreme Court, but Scalia wrote a scathing dissent, basically saying the people of CO should be able to use their majoritorian vote against a minority if they wanted to. Plus the whole new military 'don't ask, don't tell' policy just confuses me. It's OK to be gay just as long as you don't tell anyone?

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
I do not agree with LeeTJ on that statement. Rather, I will say that blacks disproprotionately are in professional sports because it seems the best option for them. Historically and currently, the chances of them being able succeed simply through the system is still very little. As I said, if you look at government positions, business excutives, etc... they are all made up of rich, white people. So now, they must aspire to other areas, which is the only way they can break out of this cycle of poverty. How many rich white people aspire to joing professional sports? None. They have no reason to. (And yes I agree that these minorities need to be held more accountable and rebelling against such preconcieved notions but that does not mean we can't help.)

You don't think that certain races have better genetics for certain sports? They say white men can't jump, and I have to agree even though I'm white. Our build just isn't the same. Take a look at a white guy's calves and a black guy's calves. They're build differently in the vast majority of the cases. Also, members of certain areas of the Earth excel at different tasks. For sprinting events, people of Western African descent totally dominate... they hold 100% of records under 400 meters. On the other hand, for long distance events, people from the high altitude African inland, (such as Kenya) excel. If you look at the percentages of entrants in these events, and then look at the percentages of the winners, you see clear trends forming based on genetic makeup. This is no coincidence, these people evolved in conditions that lend themselves to be better at certain activities.

For instance, take a look at the finishers at the Boston Marathon:
link

Long distance running requires efficient bodies. People from Kenya evolved in a high altitude region where their body became adapted to be efficient. Sure, it takes hard work, but when you take a bunch of world class athletes who all train very seriously, the outcome speaks for itself.

 

[FrustratedUser]

Without a doubt people on Visa.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: spanky
gays